This Democracy Talk

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Lumenari
You still aint getting it. A question what do you call the process of the people picking their representatives? It's a vote yes but what a vote?
The electoral college is just a blip in the process. You vote for your representative to go to the college.

I "got it" 40 years ago reading and understanding the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.

Our form of government is a Republic.

Originally only the members of the House of Representatives were "Democratically" voted in, BTW.

Until 1913, Senators were NOT voted in directly, but appointed by State legislators.

Until the 17th Amendment, which was passed under the guise of the Senators "being more accountable to their constituents."

Yea... THAT worked out great...

The US is both a Democracy and a Republic.

The terms are not mutually exclusive.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
Why do people constantly refer to the U.S.A. as a democracy? We are not, it's called a constitutional republic for a reason but yet it seems every one who has a platform to speak to people, disregarding whether they are left or right, uses this democracy line.

Why is this so hard to understand? It's really tiring to see that almost everyone who speaks in the media (supposed to be smarter than this) and everyone who speaks to the media keeps this democracy line going?

Damned pledge doesn't say "...And to the Democracy, for which it stands...".

I'm a dumbass and I can get this so why is it so hard for all the pundits, talking heads and everyone, really. No one seems to get this concept and I'm kinda flummoxed by it.

I need some smarter minds than me on this one. Please help me understand this. Most people don't seem to understand what type of .Gov we have yet they will bitch and moan all day about how it sucks.

For a few reasons actually...

1. The political leaders of our REPUBLIC are chosen via the DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

2. Were really a hybridized government. Even though our individual states have specific laws votedmon by their populace... Federal law often overules them. (The state can decide to not charge you with a crime, but the federal government can... as an example.. marijuana growers instates where it's been seems legal by the states have been prosecuted under federal laws in select cases)... And the leader of the Federal government is centralized.. (the president).. and voted on.. in practice.. democratically for the most part.

3. People in major population centers identify moreso from a government standpoint on average... Federally.. as opposed to the state level.

4. The world is getting smaller, with the dawn of the internet, and massively populated countries moving into their modern era and joining the world economy... Markets are international.. small businesses.. sell internationally.. and we all buy internationally in one way or another... This globalized paradigm shift (unavoidable due to technology and free markets)... leads to state lines becoming less important except for tax purposes.. this diminishing the role of states in the republic.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

this diminishing the role of states in the republic.

You got that part right just not the when - diminishing role of States began with direct election of Senators which were supposed to be appointed and beholden to a States Legislature - all in the name of "democracy" now Senators are prima donnas strutting about the national special interest stage where they really don't belong. Formerly a State legislature could recall a Senator for malfeasance or any reason for that matter.

Congress = peoples representatives

Senate = States representatives

Per original Constitution

Changing the election of Senators has made them more interested in serving special interests rather than the states where they came from.

I would say that Democracy is not a form of government at all but a way for those in power to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions while they control information to the point of directing political will. Democracy is the divine right of technocrats. The vote, the debates, and the tightly controlled narrative are all smoke to manufacture consent.

If you commit war crimes due to “the collective political will” you aren’t a war criminal but merely a good leader.

Democracy is a con job and has been since the days of Athens. It doesn’t form the government nor does it govern. It’s strength is that it is a slightly less superstitious form of a mandate from heaven.

The saddest part about all of this is that there has never been a large scale system more just in the entire history of mankind than what we call western liberal democracy.

Democracy is a word that in application is many things, none of which are “rule by the people”.