UK, Canada, France, Belgium, you're being played

a reply to: Freeborn

A big cause for surge in younger asymptomatic testing has been oldskool rave soundystems have been requiring people get tested and have a negative result before they can come in - the new government and police powers have a fatal flaw where soundsystem can't be conviscated and people can't be fined if the soundsystem is crowdfunded rather than having a single owner.

Am gonna star this by saying that I do not support what the UK government is doing right now with these current measures that amount to a second lockdown. I supported the first but this crap about shutting pubs and keeping uni students locked inside and making it a crime to go visit granny is a joke.

That said, they do need to so something to protect the most vanerabel, social distancing, masks, good respiratory hygiene , isolating those most at risk, minimising pressure on hospitals....am all for that stuff.

We have a massive problem in the UK, its called the media, headlines read "7000 new cases confirmed most ever!!!" yet neglect to highlight low hospital admissions and low numbers off deaths. This in turns causes a bit of panic among the public who demand the government do something so the government have to act. They are acting on opinion polls and not on good scientific data. For example, polls say the public blame the opening of pubs on the spread of Covid yet they account for about 3-5% of covid infections and when managed right can help prevent the spread, yet they shut the pubs at 10pm, make it impossible to meet people in the pub.

Also in the UK April was a pretty dark month for us in terms of Covid, we had 4-5k new cases a day and up to 1000 deaths per day. Cases back then where linked with deaths in the mind of the British public and still are, what the media (and government) are really bad at getting across are some other facts, like the fact that back in April we mostly tested people in hospital and where struggling to do more than 40K tests per day. Now we are hitting uptown 200-300K tests per day and off them only about 2.8% yield a positive result.

People need to put this into perspective, when we reopened schools and work places this was going to happen, the government and media should have better primed the public for a spike in cases. This has been a massive failure of communication. Its terrified some people in this country all because the media publish nothing but the shock horror headlines to get views and sales.

Best thing I have found to do is look at the official government statistics for myself. In my view they do not justify Boris's current lockdown measures.

Oct.4
Tokyo

8pm

Population 130000000

1 death from coronavirus today.

I'd stick with figures from Asia.
They are bit more accurate.
Not all Asian countries but Korea Japan even Okinawa Taiwan.

originally posted by: bastion

What are your views on the current shielding methods? Appologies if I'm wrong (brain injury means terrible memory) but IIRC you're around the lower end of the age-risk catagory?

You dont IIRC (had to google it) I am in the top end of the age risk catagory

but I have resigned myself that I am not going to live forever.

My views on the current shielding methods is that they make no sense.

Before during and after covid (if I have an after) I have always taken care

of myself (like with my car) I have only one life...I dont play cavalier with it.

I'm in the clinical-risk/high-risk group myself due to brain not forming properly in the wom, epillepsy and previous bleed on the brain from RTA and have to take 11 meds a day to stay alive which buggers the immune system (still doesn't control the seizures so can drop dead any second and every day is a blessing). I thought they made perfect sense in the initial outbreak as there was so little known about the virus but this time around I'm the governments approach a bit patronising.

Sorry for all your problems and I understand its not easy.

I could take the governments patronising IF it made sense and it was consistent

which it isnt.

Like anyone in the clinical/high risk catagory I've made dozens/hundreds of adjustments to life to manage my health prior to the appearance of Covid. Charities have published clear accesible info detailing the specific risks (mine details how incorrect and scaremongering Even though I class as medically retarded I still have the common sense to only socialise with friends and family who are shielding and keep an eye on local cases.

Likewise.

It needs to be done to protect the NHS and frontline workers as they're essential and are putting their own lives at risk to help the rest of us and I think that's something all the country can support but everyone I know in a similar situation to me had to get over their fear of death years ago in order to have any quality of life and is used to managing risk with making the most out of life.

However the NHS is there to help the sick and those that need them,

not the other way around ...... and they knew all the risks when they went

into the NHS. I know that because my grandaughter is out there on the front

line in this, her first year as a paramedic.

a reply to: bastion

It must be worrying for you to say the least but its good to see you are trying to maintain some level of social contact with friends and family.
I think it would be easy to slip in to some sort of paranoid permanent isolation and that could have some serious mental health issues.

I've always been a person who likes 'socialising' and lockdown had quite a profound effect on me in some respects.
After literally decades of having a large group of friends and associates who I saw on a regular basis I was more or less cut off from them all.
I've never been one for telephone conversations - I find them unpersonable - and limit them to the bare minimum.
Of course we shared a few text conversations but they are are no substitute for having face to face conversations.

Barring seeing my parents two or three times a week and doing their shopping and paying their bills etc my actual human interactions were limited to my wife - a test of character all in itself - and my nine year old grandson which if I'm being honest was the one oasis in a desert of inane mundaneness and empty repetitiveness.

I've been out 'socialising' a few times since restrictions were relaxed - nowhere near as much as I used to - but it hasn't been quite the same.
Today will be the first time I've been in a pub since the pointless 10pm shut has been introduced.
I'm going for a few pints with one of my oldest and best friends who is getting married on Friday - at 60 years old he really should know better.
His wedding ceremony is restricted to four people, including him and the bride, and there will be fifteen of us in total at the reception.

It'll be good to see some old faces today, people I grew up with and with whom I share some sort of bond that has kept us close despite the years and sometimes going relatively long periods of time without actually seeing each other.

I am worried about catching the virus?
Yes, to a certain extent I am but as long as reasonable social distancing protocols are follwed the personal benefits far outweigh the dangers.
Selfish?
I don't know, I hope not but......

a reply to: bastion

A big cause for surge in younger asymptomatic testing has been oldskool rave soundystems have been requiring people get tested and have a negative result before they can come in.......

So I've heard and read.

Unfortunately even though I'd love to I suspect the body wouldn't let me!

I can understand why young people want to enjoy themselves and this generation of 'me, me, me' that we have produced feel they have a right to do whatever they see fit - a discussion for another time and place.

- the new government and police powers have a fatal flaw where soundsystem can't be conviscated and people can't be fined if the soundsystem is crowdfunded rather than having a single owner.

I know a few Northern Soul promoters - I used to promote Northern Soul, Punk and Ska events myself quite a few years ago now - and live music promoters and those in my home town were threatened with prosecution and with the confiscation of their equipment if they attempted to put on any live shows at all regardless of numbers attending.

Is it coincidence that infection rates are relatively low here where those events were prohibited yet almost everywhere else where events were allowed with a limited capacity infection rates have gone thorugh the roof?

a reply to: Freeborn

I am worried about catching the virus?
Yes, to a certain extent I am but as long as reasonable social distancing protocols are follwed the personal benefits far outweigh the dangers.
Selfish?
I don't know, I hope not but......

It isn't selfish in the slightest, we have a very finite amount on this planet and the simple fact is we've overreacted and overestimated the true severity of Covid-19. Life is about making decisions where the benefits outweigh the risk, my risk of dying in a car crash is far higher than dying of Covid-19 yet I choose to drive. BLM protests occurred in the UK while cases were falling. Record numbers of people were packing onto beaches as cases were falling. What's selfish is the fearmongers who think it's within their power to enforce dystopian unscientific laws which restrict a wedding ceremony to 4 people when it's blatantly clear it has next to no impact on how Covid-19 spreads.

If it did then cases wouldn't have continued falling as shops in the UK started to re-open. You can see all of this data visualized here. It's the same thing in other nations. Moreover there are other common viruses which have a higher chance of killing me than Covid-19 based on my age, so I'm not going to live my life in fear of something so weak. If some people want to hide inside for the rest of the their life and constantly wear a mask they can go for it, but I refuse to partake in the hysteria or play any role in it because that gives it more validation. Luckily I don't live in an area which had a super long lockdown or enforced mask laws, but I feel quite sorry for places which are still going through those things, especially if barely anyone is dying.

a reply to: Freeborn

Wearing a mask in shops etc will not guarantee a person will not get Covid 19 but it MIGHT help reduce the spread of the virus.
A very mild inconvenience at worst.....but the possible benefits make it a worthy sacrifice in my opinion.

Show me one country in the world where enforcing mask laws had any noticeable impact on the case numbers, because I cannot see any. Saying it "might" isn't enough, and even if it was a 100% proven fact, I would still argue Covid-19 isn't severe enough to warrant that sort of liberty destroying law.

It may only be a mild inconvenience for most people but I'm not going to mildly impede my ability to breath so that I can appease the will of unscientific control freaks who think they are better than everybody else. It's truly a form of group-think and group shaming anyone that refuses to obey or give into fear.

And like I said it's also about giving validation to the "pandemic", so people can look around and see there are real consequences, because they certainly don't see hospitals overflowing and I personally don't know anyone who has died from Covid-19, but I do know several people who've had their lives destroyed due to the economic consequences.

As far as I'm aware no-one is recommending wearing masks in wide open spaces. Certainly in the UK people are only being 'told' to wear them on public transport and in shops etc.

Victoria in Australia has a law which requires wearing a mask outside of your house even in open spaces, but that may have been stopped recently since cases and deaths have fallen very low. I could be wrong but I also believe some places in the US have a similar law. I'm sure someone else will have more information on the subject than me.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Find and follow my covid posts and stop worrying.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm in Canada and was recently on a camping trip.
I asked my brother if this is actually real while sitting around the campfire.

He told me yes and he knows of 4 people who died from it.

My brother is the biggest conspiracy theorist I know, and I trust him.....I thought for sure he would call BS on it but he didn't.

This isn't a joke, people have died so I don't mind wearing a mask.

Trudeau being our "leader" is another ballgame but people have died from it.

What are the odds of that? The vast majority of people on the planet don't even know a single person who has had covid, never mind someone who has died from it... and your brother knew 4?

a reply to: Xabi87

I have personally met loads of people with Covid, as in I have personally seen there test results and even spoke to the lad that processed the test.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Xabi87

I have personally met loads of people with Covid, as in I have personally seen there test results and even spoke to the lad that processed the test.

There have been a total of 35 million cases worldwide so far, out of a population of what? 8 billion, you are still a minority.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

BLM protests occurred in the UK while cases were falling. Record numbers of people were packing onto beaches as cases were falling.

And they are the groups where infection rates are going through the roof.
If BLM hadn't protested so much, people hadn't had street party's and Old School style raves or flocked to the beach as much then maybe this second wave wouldn't be anywhere near as large or as widespread.
But these were the people who thought they were immune to the virus.....obviously not!

The spike in infected people in Bolton has been traced to one young person who went abroad on holiday, came back and then went out on the following weekend around Bolton drinking, partying and sessioning with his mates.
Low and behold he fell ill on the Monday and tested positive for Covid 19.

Track and trace found that a large number of those who had recently tested positive had come in to some sort of contact either directly or indirectly with this so called 'super-spreader'.....a sort of modern day Bolton Typhoid Mary.

No-one is saying that person was the sole source of the rise in infections, but he certainly was a contributory factor and it just shows how it CAN be spread.

Failute to acknowledge that is just wilful ignorance.

We will never know just how many people would have died if we had not gone into lockdown and we'll never know how effective or necessary those measures were.

I don't scare easily and I'm no supporter of government intervention or any invasion on civil liberties.
But some times we do have to consider 'the greater good' and sacrifices have to be made.
I can absolutely guarantee you that if these restrictions go on one minute longer than necessary I will be at the forefront of protests against them - and I don't mean by carrying a nicely worded and painted piece of cardboard! - but I reallt fail to see the passionate argument against wearing masks in shops etc.
It reeks of 'look at me, I'm such a rebel'.
It's crap.
It's a minor inconvenience at worst that might, granted just might, help stop the spread.
If it doesn't then I've been put out a bit, if it does then great.
But no, your such a big #ing rebel showing them you won't be dictated to.....pathetic.
It's hardly on a par with standing in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square or smashing the wall in Berlin to pieces is it?
It's not exactly standing up and defending Freedom of Speech or human suffrage is it.

It's wearing a #ing mask whilst in a shop in an attempt to minimise the risk of spreading the virus to other people.

And you speak of selfishness?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

BLM protests occurred in the UK while cases were falling. Record numbers of people were packing onto beaches as cases were falling.

And they are the groups where infection rates are going through the roof.
If BLM hadn't protested so much, people hadn't had street party's and Old School style raves or flocked to the beach as much then maybe this second wave wouldn't be anywhere near as large or as widespread.
But these were the people who thought they were immune to the virus.....obviously not!

The spike in infected people in Bolton has been traced to one young person who went abroad on holiday, came back and then went out on the following weekend around Bolton drinking, partying and sessioning with his mates.
Low and behold he fell ill on the Monday and tested positive for Covid 19.

Track and trace found that a large number of those who had recently tested positive had come in to some sort of contact either directly or indirectly with this so called 'super-spreader'.....a sort of modern day Bolton Typhoid Mary.

No-one is saying that person was the sole source of the rise in infections, but he certainly was a contributory factor and it just shows how it CAN be spread.

Failute to acknowledge that is just wilful ignorance.

We will never know just how many people would have died if we had not gone into lockdown and we'll never know how effective or necessary those measures were.

I don't scare easily and I'm no supporter of government intervention or any invasion on civil liberties.
But some times we do have to consider 'the greater good' and sacrifices have to be made.
I can absolutely guarantee you that if these restrictions go on one minute longer than necessary I will be at the forefront of protests against them - and I don't mean by carrying a nicely worded and painted piece of cardboard! - but I reallt fail to see the passionate argument against wearing masks in shops etc.
It reeks of 'look at me, I'm such a rebel'.
It's crap.
It's a minor inconvenience at worst that might, granted just might, help stop the spread.
If it doesn't then I've been put out a bit, if it does then great.
But no, your such a big #ing rebel showing them you won't be dictated to.....pathetic.
It's hardly on a par with standing in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square or smashing the wall in Berlin to pieces is it?
It's not exactly standing up and defending Freedom of Speech or human suffrage is it.

It's wearing a #ing mask whilst in a shop in an attempt to minimise the risk of spreading the virus to other people.

And you speak of selfishness?

Lmao. Selfishness? Anyone who is wearing a mask does not give one # about you or your nan, they only care about looking good. It's all virtue signaling.

"Look at me, i'm such a model citizen".

a reply to: Freeborn

If BLM hadn't protested so much, people hadn't had street party's and Old School style raves or flocked to the beach as much then maybe this second wave wouldn't be anywhere near as large or as widespread.

Except as this thread clearly shows there is no real second wave in the UK, you're actually at the very end of the first wave but through the magic of baloney science you are made to believe otherwise.

We will never know just how many people would have died if we had not gone into lockdown and we'll never know how effective or necessary those measures were.

Actually we do know because nations such as Sweden had very minimal restrictions with some social distancing. Yet somehow both the UK and USA have had more deaths per capita than Sweden.

But no, your such a big #ing rebel showing them you won't be dictated to.....pathetic.

It has nothing to do with being a rebel, it has to do with logic and facts prevailing over disinformation and fearmongering. What's pathetic is those who throw a tantrum about people not wearing masks.

a reply to: Xabi87

Lmao. Selfishness? Anyone who is wearing a mask does not give one # about you or your nan, they only care about looking good. It's all virtue signaling.

No its about doing your part.

I often compare responses to this to the blitz, am sure you would have been the one yelling that you should be able to keep your lights on for as long as you like.

Fact of the matter is we are living through the worst pandemic in modern times.

I actually see wearing a mask as a sign of politeness now.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

No its about doing your part.

Yes comrade, we must all unite for the greater good of the community. Let us show our wisdom and empathy for other living souls by joining together to achieve this one common goal. Those who refuse are clearly evil souls with no manners. They clearly don't have the spiritual capacity or unconditional love for all human beings that we experience in our enlightened state of being.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
My mother lives in an old folk's home and they aren't even allowed to have visitors, so I have to sneak in and out like a ninja.

are you stupid or something?

originally posted by: Xabi87
Lmao. Selfishness? Anyone who is wearing a mask does not give one # about you or your nan, they only care about looking good. It's all virtue signaling.

"Look at me, i'm such a model citizen".

are you stupid or something?

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
What's pathetic is those who throw a tantrum about people not wearing masks.

what's pathetic is not showing some respect towards other people. you may go your way without a mask and i won't give a damn. come close and cough in my face, and you'll find yourself in a horizontal position with your teeth embedded in the pavement.

regardless how blown out of proportion the whole thing is, it doesn't justify being an ass. when someone cannot guarantee with 100% certainty that their action won't cause seriously increased health risk for others, they should refrain from taking such action, period.

you may not notice it, someone you'll pass the damn thing to may not notice it, but down the line someone older may die because some dumbass decided to go to the supermarket without wearing a mask while accusing others of virtue signaling and claiming that it's pathetic to get annoyed by him breaking the rules.

and notice i've said "MAY". this whole thing may very well be blown out of proportion, that's more than likely. but until we're ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE, are you willing to put someone's life in danger over a guess? what if it's way worse than they're telling us and they're trying to prevent panic?

you don't like the rules of your society, leave it.

alternatively, go help with real scientific research to educate your society. gathering "facts" that fit your biased view, then spreading them everywhere to make yourself feel better, isn't scientific research. it is NOT helping. quite the opposite.

originally posted by: KansasGirl


I’m above 20 people now that I know- I talk face to face (or phone to phone) with these actual people who have tested positive for covid-19 (anyone notice they are calling it covid-SARS2 now?).

SARS-COV-2 is the name of the virus (like HIV)

COVID-19 is the name of the disease (like AIDS)

Everyone is mixing those two. Doesn't help for better understanding of the situation about the contamination rate ("infected" would mean ill, and showing symptoms of covid-19).

originally posted by: Xabi87

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

BLM protests occurred in the UK while cases were falling. Record numbers of people were packing onto beaches as cases were falling.

And they are the groups where infection rates are going through the roof.
If BLM hadn't protested so much, people hadn't had street party's and Old School style raves or flocked to the beach as much then maybe this second wave wouldn't be anywhere near as large or as widespread.
But these were the people who thought they were immune to the virus.....obviously not!

The spike in infected people in Bolton has been traced to one young person who went abroad on holiday, came back and then went out on the following weekend around Bolton drinking, partying and sessioning with his mates.
Low and behold he fell ill on the Monday and tested positive for Covid 19.

Track and trace found that a large number of those who had recently tested positive had come in to some sort of contact either directly or indirectly with this so called 'super-spreader'.....a sort of modern day Bolton Typhoid Mary.

No-one is saying that person was the sole source of the rise in infections, but he certainly was a contributory factor and it just shows how it CAN be spread.

Failute to acknowledge that is just wilful ignorance.

We will never know just how many people would have died if we had not gone into lockdown and we'll never know how effective or necessary those measures were.

I don't scare easily and I'm no supporter of government intervention or any invasion on civil liberties.
But some times we do have to consider 'the greater good' and sacrifices have to be made.
I can absolutely guarantee you that if these restrictions go on one minute longer than necessary I will be at the forefront of protests against them - and I don't mean by carrying a nicely worded and painted piece of cardboard! - but I reallt fail to see the passionate argument against wearing masks in shops etc.
It reeks of 'look at me, I'm such a rebel'.
It's crap.
It's a minor inconvenience at worst that might, granted just might, help stop the spread.
If it doesn't then I've been put out a bit, if it does then great.
But no, your such a big #ing rebel showing them you won't be dictated to.....pathetic.
It's hardly on a par with standing in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square or smashing the wall in Berlin to pieces is it?
It's not exactly standing up and defending Freedom of Speech or human suffrage is it.

It's wearing a #ing mask whilst in a shop in an attempt to minimise the risk of spreading the virus to other people.

And you speak of selfishness?

Lmao. Selfishness? Anyone who is wearing a mask does not give one # about you or your nan, they only care about looking good. It's all virtue signaling.

"Look at me, i'm such a model citizen".

stfu, speak for yourself