writings of Jesus

About 10+ years ago, I started reading and searching for the answer to this question:

Did Jesus write anything? If so, what happened to his writings - why don't we have them?

Now, I'm not a scholar and I have no formal studies in either history or religion. I have a "day job" that is not in any way related to history or theology. I read and study, in my spare time, for pleasure and to exercise my brain.

But, there are scholars and knowledgeable people here and so, I am humbly asking for any help you can give me in answering this question that I seem to be no closer to answering for myself than I was when I started.

Conventional wisdom and tradition says that Jesus was not illiterate - he could obviously read. Could he not write? Were his writings destroyed? Carried off by one of the sackings of one of the places where they may have been kept? I'm genuinely interested - even if you just tell me where else I should look. Theories? Conspiracies? Wild goose chases, even?

Thank you.
Al

There are no writings attributed to Jesus that we have or know about.

We are to believe then that he found his message to be everlasting and profound enough that they would live through eternity in some form or fashion. You or I will never know if that comes to pass. His non-writings could be for several reasons, not the least of which is that he, if he lived, belonged to the oral tradition sect of Jews.

if Jesus wrote anything that was discovered by us, that would totally discredit all those people who claim he didnt exist. It is just too bad he didn't, atleast that we know of so far.

Yeah well him not writing anything, wouldnt that surport the claim that he didnt exist?

there is one document that is believed to have been written by Jesus. But as
stated no copy of it has yet been found. It is refered to as the "Q" document.
If you google Q document and/or The Jesus Seminar you should find something.

The Jesus Seminar has constructed a document that they believe is or could be
The Q document or at least the base for it.

Imagine what his autograph is worth!

In the bible he wrote in the sand.....but no-one knew what it said....

In Eusebius' "History of the Church", written around 320 AD, there is mention of a letter that Jesus had written to King Abgar, the monarch of the people of Mesopotamia. (the text of which is recorded in the book). Eusebius says that the letter still existed in his time and was kept in the Record Office at Edessa, also that is was written in Syriac. My guess would be that if it is perserved still, it is probably hidden somewhere in the Vatican.

And my guess is that the contents of that letter, if it exists would contradict most of christians beliefs...

Originally posted by TheBandit795
And my guess is that the contents of that letter, if it exists would contradict most of christians beliefs...

really? want to bet on it and place some money on that assumption?

Tho even for belivers it would be hard to convincily prove it was written by Jesus.

IN all honestly he has allready wrote something, it is called the bible

He didn't write the bible. The bible was written by humans just like you and me.

Originally posted by Seapeople
In the bible he wrote in the sand.....but no-one knew what it said....

Hehe, true.

I think as a teacher he was more focused on having people understand, rather than adding to the law.

Originally posted by Al Davison
Conventional wisdom and tradition says that Jesus was not illiterate - he could obviously read.

Why could he read? Because he knew parts of the torah and such? These sorts of things could be memorized no?

I doubt he wrote anything. I doubt the apostles wrote anything either, infact, i think its generalyl agreed that most of them were dictating to scribes. Jesus probably couldn't write properly either, and never sat down with a scribe.

It would've been a good thing for a god to do no?

Originally posted by TheBandit795
And my guess is that the contents of that letter, if it exists would contradict most of christians beliefs...

Why think its at all authentic tho?
Jesus writing to some foreign king of mesopotamia? Sounds fraudulent on the face of it.

If you go by the standards of the time and considering that Jesus’ father was a furniture maker / carpenter, then Jesus would have been unlettered.
The only persons who would have received instruction on how to read / write would have been for those of royal blood and in some cases, the family of very rich / powerful merchants.
Now this is not to say that Jesus did not dictate to a scribe and thus in that mode could be considered an author.
Of all the apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John the only Mathew who originally was a tax collector mighty have received an education that included reading / writing.
The other books attested to Mark, Luke, John, their letters etc, would have to have been done through the use of scribes as was the norm back in those days.

so, most of the Rabbinet of that time was actually unlettered? (a sincere question, not a challenge)

If true, I'm surprised by that. I know most of the population was illiterate and Jesus's humble beginings probably meant that no one in his household could read but, all that stuff about how he was a rabbi caused me to jump to the conclusion that he would have been able to at least read the Torah and therefore, write a little bit.

Of course, I know about the scribes but...

Originally posted by Al Davison
so, most of the Rabbinet of that time was actually unlettered? (a sincere question, not a challenge)

If true, I'm surprised by that. I know most of the population was illiterate and Jesus's humble beginings probably meant that no one in his household could read but, all that stuff about how he was a rabbi caused me to jump to the conclusion that he would have been able to at least read the Torah and therefore, write a little bit.

Of course, I know about the scribes but...

To answer your question.... both yes and no. Most of the Rabbi's came from powerful families so they would have been given thee chance to learn their letters.
Also, remember that knowledge is power. This is true back then as is it today. By restricting the ability to read / write to only the privledged, allowed those in power to better hold sway over those beneath them.
Think of it this way, a rabbi is reading from the Torah, how would the masses know that what the rabbi said was actually what was written?
The rabbi could say virtually anything and state that it was what was written in the Torah and everyone would have to belive that it was so.
(Note, before everyone starts to blast me, I am not picking on rabbi's or any religion).
This was also true for the law makers as well. They could pick up a paper that read BKJGYIUT^(*&LBKJVGBUI and then tell the people that the tax rate was now 50% higher and that they would have to pay or go to go to jail. The people would have to believe that it was so and either pay up or go to jail.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
If you go by the standards of the time and considering that Jesus’ father was a furniture maker / carpenter, then Jesus would have been unlettered.
The only persons who would have received instruction on how to read / write would have been for those of royal blood and in some cases, the family of very rich / powerful merchants.

I suspect that the situation is different amoung jews. A modern jew at least has to be able to read, say at his bar mitzvah. But, agian, being literate is different from merely being able to 'read the bible'. Lots of people in antiquity could read very poorly and write things like their names and what not too.

Originally posted by Deliverer
In Eusebius' "History of the Church", written around 320 AD, there is mention of a letter that Jesus had written to King Abgar, the monarch of the people of Mesopotamia. (the text of which is recorded in the book). Eusebius says that the letter still existed in his time and was kept in the Record Office at Edessa, also that is was written in Syriac. My guess would be that if it is perserved still, it is probably hidden somewhere in the Vatican.

Abgar- Abgarus Uchama the toparch to Jesus the good Saviour that hath appeared in the parts (place) of Jerusalem, greeting. I have heard concerning thee and thy cures, that they are done of thee without drugs or herbs: for, as the report goes, thou makest blind men to see again, lame to walk, and cleansest lepers, and castest out unclean spirits and devils, and those that are afflicted with long sickness thou healest, and raisest the dead. And having heard all this of thee, I had determined one of two things, either that thou art God come down from heaven, and so doest these things or art a Son of God that doest these things. Therefore now have I written and entreated thee to trouble thyself to come to me and heal the affliction which I have. or indeed I have heard that the Jews even murmur against thee and wish to do thee hurt. And I have a very little city but (and) comely (reverend), which is sufficient for us both.

Supposed response-

Blessed art thou that hast believed in me, not having seen me. For it is written concerning me that they that have seen me shall not believe in me, and that they that have not seen me shall believe and live. But concerning that which thou hast written to me, to come unto thee; it must needs be that I fulfil all things for the which I was sent here, and after fulfilling them should then be taken up unto him that sent me. And when I am taken up, I will send thee one of my disciples, to heal thine affliction and give life to thee and them that are with thee.

Both letters have been dismissed by scholars and church as fakes.

Interesting thread topic AL

I wonder... If Mathew Mark Luke and John where not Illiterate...surely there is no reason to suspect Jesus was...not to mention Mary's Gospel which was supposedly scribed by the Magdelene who the church portrays as being nothing more then a prostitute (So why would she be Literate and not JC?)

Was that the guys Charm...Was he some Hillbilly hick Carpenter from Nazareth who was easily manipulated by various influential people....was he an unwilling Martyr who never sacrificed himself...but was sacrificed by others?

As A friend and I were discussing the other night...If Jesus was around these days he'd been in a lunatic Asylum most probably....which makes me wonder.....whose to say he wasn't mentally unstable...after all....He did claim to be the son of God didn't he?!






[edit on 18-3-2005 by BobDylan]

[edit on 18-3-2005 by BobDylan]