A vaccine is impossible if you can catch COVID 19 twice

This is basically a question I have been wrestling with and want to hear from the community.

The way vaccines work is that they use a form of the actual virus to create an immune response in the person. That immune response is what protects you from getting the full blown disease. Most vaccines use a "dead" form of the virus to stimulate the immune response, some use one tiny "live" virus to stimulate the immune response. That is how vaccines work.

Now many on ATS are saying you can get COVID 19 twice, that getting it full blown the first time does not stimulate the immune response so that you will not get it a second time.

I think I have read that the cases people said got it twice, were really people who got it and never fully recovered and their immune systems succumbed and they regressed. That is they did not get it twice, they simply never got over it the first time but thought they did.

IF COVID 19 does not stimulate an immune response for getting it a second time, is the world doomed? If it is the case that getting it does not stimulate an immune response then no vaccine can be created to stimulate an immune response. That would mean the virus would circulate endlessly until it killed off the majority of the population of the world.

Has there been a case where someone got COVID 19 and then more than 6 months later got it again? I don't think so, but maybe some of you do.

What is your opinion based on science and not stories in social media?

a reply to: The2Billies

You can catch the flu more than once yet we manage to immunize a significant percentage of susceptible people.

Then again the current flu (H1N1 influenza vaccines) are only 50-60% effective.

My opinion is any COVID 19 vaccine won't materialize, if at all, this side of 2020, just down to the very nature of how we produce and proceed to clinical trials where vaccines are concerned.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: The2Billies

You can catch the flu more than once yet we manage to immunize a significant percentage of susceptible people.

Then again the current flu (H1N1 influenza virus vaccines) are only 50-60% effective.

My opinion is any COVID 19 vaccine won't materialize, if at all, this side of 2020, just down to the very nature of how we produce and proceed to clinical trials where vaccines are concerned.

Depends on how well they guess the strain from year to year...

Why Flu Outbreaks Have Been the Worst in Nearly a Decade

FEBRUARY 28, 2018 10:43 AM EST


time.com...

The current shot is just 25 percent effective against the H3N2 virus, this season’s most-often-identified strain by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The experts say, with enough time and money, they can do a lot better.

a reply to: The2Billies

If this study holds true, a vaccine is pointless. Even if a vaccine is effective, the antibodies produced from it may only last 8-12 weeks.

fox4kc.com...

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: The2Billies

You can catch the flu more than once yet we manage to immunize a significant percentage of susceptible people.

Then again the current flu (H1N1 influenza vaccines) are only 50-60% effective.

My opinion is any COVID 19 vaccine won't materialize, if at all, this side of 2020, just down to the very nature of how we produce and proceed to clinical trials where vaccines are concerned.

The flu is not one strain, it is multiple virus'

Every flu season they say, this vaccine (stimulates immune response) is for this or that particular virus, not all flu virus,
like there are many covid virus and why the current one is labeled number 19 or virus strain 19.

a reply to: drussell41

I know of that study. But after 8-12 weeks do people have antibodies for other vaccines present in the blood stream at a level that is easily detected?

I think maybe not, yet they are still effective in real life for years.

a reply to: The2Billies

The 19 in Covid 19 does not represent the number of a strain. It is named Co ( Corona ) vi ( virus ) d ( disease ) 19 ( for 2019 the year it was first identified ).

a reply to: The2Billies

Covid is a coronavirus.
The common cold is a corona virus.
Both mutate all the time.

There has never been a vaccine for the common cold.
I HIGHLY doubt there will be one for Covid either.

There is always the possibility for death from complications of the common cold.
I suspect Covid will be the same.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: The2Billies

The 19 in Covid 19 does not represent the number of a strain. It is named Co ( Corona ) vi ( virus ) d ( disease ) 19 ( for 2019 the year it was first identified ).

Thank you

Do you think a vaccine is impossible for that particular strain? Will it continue until it kills most of us in time?

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: The2Billies

Covid is a coronavirus.
The common cold is a corona virus.
Both mutate all the time.

There has never been a vaccine for the common cold.
I HIGHLY doubt there will be one for Covid either.

There is always the possibility for death from complications of the common cold.
I suspect Covid will be the same.

So you think this will never end?

It will go on until most of us are dead?

They have tried to make a vaccine for both coronaviruses and SARS viruses and have failed. That makes me think that a vaccine is not going to be available this winter, but they may make a fake one to make people feel better. It may work for those who already had covid to increase their antigens a bit, but I doubt it.

There are ways to increase your ability to fight this disease, some foods are antiviral and some have polimerase inhibitor activity. You can still get the virus, but it may help stop it from causing covid 19

originally posted by: The2Billies
This is basically a question I have been wrestling with and want to hear from the community.

The way vaccines work is that they use a form of the actual virus to create an immune response in the person. That immune response is what protects you from getting the full blown disease. Most vaccines use a "dead" form of the virus to stimulate the immune response, some use one tiny "live" virus to stimulate the immune response. That is how vaccines work.

Now many on ATS are saying you can get COVID 19 twice, that getting it full blown the first time does not stimulate the immune response so that you will not get it a second time.

I think I have read that the cases people said got it twice, were really people who got it and never fully recovered and their immune systems succumbed and they regressed. That is they did not get it twice, they simply never got over it the first time but thought they did.

IF COVID 19 does not stimulate an immune response for getting it a second time, is the world doomed? If it is the case that getting it does not stimulate an immune response then no vaccine can be created to stimulate an immune response. That would mean the virus would circulate endlessly until it killed off the majority of the population of the world.

Has there been a case where someone got COVID 19 and then more than 6 months later got it again? I don't think so, but maybe some of you do.

What is your opinion based on science and not stories in social media?

That’s not the only way to produce vaccines, these days. The most modern approach is to create artificial antigens in the laboratory and introduce them into the patient. The antigens can be chosen such that the virus is highly unlikely to be able to mutate enough to make the vaccine obsolete, which can be the case with seasonal flu, for example. That’s why they have to brew up a new flu vaccine every season.

At least two of the vaccines currently in Phase I - II trials (CureVac and Moderna) use messenger RNA (mRNA)as the antigen, and that may very well lead to long term immunity.

www.raps.org...

I have a friend and colleague who is a microbiology researcher at Stanford working on the COVID-19 problem, and he says the ability of researchers to tackle problemS like this has grown exponentially since even the time of H1N1 (10 years ago).

Vaccines for rapidly mutating viruses are impossible. The only possibility is to make a "cocktail" of all attenuated corona viruses, including COVID 19, and hope that it stimulates some immune response. That's how the flu vaccine is produced every year - it's the previous year's attenuated virus plus previous flu viruses. Immunity is variable and usually only about 50% effective. Flu doesn't mutate as fast as this corona virus.

What they're calling a second wave or resurgence is actually a mutation of the original COVID 19. Interestingly enough, the mutation itself is the switch of a single amino acid to glycine. The most recent study of this mutation suggests that it's much more infectious than the original. That's only one mutation. There are a whole bunch more out there that haven't been characterized yet.

It's a monster.

a reply to: The2Billies

No, it will likely mutate into something like another common cold, or a flu.
It will be deadly for some, as are all of these viruses.

I am HIGHLY suspect about the reports that you can catch COVID twice.

I know that there is the antibody thing going on...but immunity is not specific to antibodies in all cases. There are myriad proteins and enzymes that also are used as immune system tools that would not be picked up in an antibody test.

Without a dynamic mutation, it should just not be possible for it to happen outside of a rare occurance that is an outlier.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: The2Billies

No, it will likely mutate into something like another common cold, or a flu.
It will be deadly for some, as are all of these viruses.

Yep. Just another minor threat to life.

Meanwhile, Flu will probably regain its ranking as the #1 killer for 2020-2021. Unless everyone wears a face mask, stays 6 feet apart, washes hands after touching anything, etc..

a reply to: The2Billies

First thing, people need to stop running from this. If they get it, take the proper meds. The flu has been hitting hard as well and nobody runs from it. This is practically the same thing, millions have been infected and most feel fine before and after, same with the flu. You have the option to protect yourself, do it and stop letting your fear drive your emotions. (not you, 2Billies, I'm speaking in general)

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: The2Billies
This is basically a question I have been wrestling with and want to hear from the community.

The way vaccines work is that they use a form of the actual virus to create an immune response in the person. That immune response is what protects you from getting the full blown disease. Most vaccines use a "dead" form of the virus to stimulate the immune response, some use one tiny "live" virus to stimulate the immune response. That is how vaccines work.

Now many on ATS are saying you can get COVID 19 twice, that getting it full blown the first time does not stimulate the immune response so that you will not get it a second time.

I think I have read that the cases people said got it twice, were really people who got it and never fully recovered and their immune systems succumbed and they regressed. That is they did not get it twice, they simply never got over it the first time but thought they did.

IF COVID 19 does not stimulate an immune response for getting it a second time, is the world doomed? If it is the case that getting it does not stimulate an immune response then no vaccine can be created to stimulate an immune response. That would mean the virus would circulate endlessly until it killed off the majority of the population of the world.

Has there been a case where someone got COVID 19 and then more than 6 months later got it again? I don't think so, but maybe some of you do.

What is your opinion based on science and not stories in social media?

That’s not the only way to produce vaccines, these days. The most modern approach is to create artificial antigens in the laboratory and introduce them into the patient. The antigens can be chosen such that the virus is highly unlikely to be able to mutate enough to make the vaccine obsolete, which can be the case with seasonal flu, for example. That’s why they have to brew up a new flu vaccine every season.

At least two of the vaccines currently in Phase I - II trials (CureVac and Moderna) use messenger RNA (mRNA)as the antigen, and that may very well lead to long term immunity.

www.raps.org...

I have a friend and colleague who is a microbiology researcher at Stanford working on the COVID-19 problem, and he says the ability of researchers to tackle problemS like this has grown exponentially since even the time of H1N1 (10 years ago).

Thank you

Has anyone had the vaccine for the common cold (a coronavirus) yet?

Yeah... me neither.

IF AMERICANS WOULD LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE COVID-19 FACTS...

The percent of U.S. deaths.. just 4/100th of 1% (130,000 div by 320,000,000)

Few Hospitals are Strained: www.cdc.gov...

There would be a mass rebellion against most of the News Media and Politicians.