A vaccine is impossible if you can catch COVID 19 twice

You can't catch the same virus twice. You can catch mutations of original virus twice, but by then you're immune system semi recognizes the structure and it's able to defeat it quicker..

Just relaying what my microbiologist wife done told me.

In short: covid19 is complete bull#, at least the way the media is portraying it. Also keep in mind most medical science comes from Rockerfeller Foundation. So god only knows what's true.

a reply to: The2Billies

Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but they have been saying the antibodys last around 3 months.

That's why people catch it again.

originally posted by: Phantom423
What they're calling a second wave or resurgence is actually a mutation of the original COVID 19. Interestingly enough, the mutation itself is the switch of a single amino acid to glycine. The most recent study of this mutation suggests that it's much more infectious than the original. That's only one mutation. There are a whole bunch more out there that haven't been characterized yet.

It's a monster.

If the second wave is a mutated version of the first wave, and is a "monster", wouldn't it be worse for those who weren't infected during the first wave?

originally posted by: carewemust
IF AMERICANS WOULD LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE COVID-19 FACTS...

The percent of U.S. deaths.. just 4/100th of 1% (130,000 div by 320,000,000)

Few Hospitals are Strained: www.cdc.gov...

There would be a mass rebellion against most of the News Media and Politicians.

This! I've seen similar posts to yours on here that actually show how low the numbers are and point out the truth by putting it in context. Your post, just like all the other similar ones, gets completely ignored and skipped right over.

The tests are mostly BS

originally posted by: awhispersecho

originally posted by: carewemust
IF AMERICANS WOULD LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE COVID-19 FACTS...

The percent of U.S. deaths.. just 4/100th of 1% (130,000 div by 320,000,000)

Few Hospitals are Strained: www.cdc.gov...

There would be a mass rebellion against most of the News Media and Politicians.

This! I've seen similar posts to yours on here that actually show how low the numbers are and point out the truth by putting it in context. Your post, just like all the other similar ones, gets completely ignored and skipped right over.

When an AGENDA (defeat President Trump in November) is priority #1 of Democrats and the Mainstream Media, most consumers (ATS members are consumers) know only what they hear and read from their favorite local/national outlets.

Relatively few humans doubt what they hear in the media, and 90% of all national/local media is owned by Democrats who don't like President Trump "draining the swamp". Draining the swamp has a lot of facets. Not just removing corrupt politicians.

originally posted by: The2Billies
Now many on ATS are saying you can get COVID 19 twice, that getting it full blown the first time does not stimulate the immune response so that you will not get it a second time.

Just like you can get a cold multiple times, and just like there is no and never will be a vaccine for the common cold.

It is a coronavirus. There will be no effective vaccine - though there will probably be 'something' that they call a vaccine and try to mandate for everyone.

This is one of my red lines I will not cross. They can kill me, but I will not take their vaccine(s).

I'm not getting the vaccine, The only vaccine I ever had was swine flu in the seventies and my health was never the same.

It is a good point you make about reinfection and an effective vaccination.

The shape of covid is a tough one to make antibodies for with all the spike proteins sticking out. If our bodies was to use an antibody that latches onto these spikes, they will also attack our own bodies as these spikes are used for ACE2 regulation. An effective antibody will need to find a gap between the spikes and part of the cell wall that is unique to covid.

When looking at treatments with zinc and hydroxycloraquine, it works by enhancing each cells own anti viral defence and attacks foreign RNA.

Some vaccination studies are trying to use a similar line of defence. Rather than target antibody production, they are looking at using RNA type methods to enhance each cells own defence against viral loads.

originally posted by: The2Billies
This is basically a question I have been wrestling with and want to hear from the community.

The way vaccines work is that they use a form of the actual virus to create an immune response in the person. That immune response is what protects you from getting the full blown disease. Most vaccines use a "dead" form of the virus to stimulate the immune response, some use one tiny "live" virus to stimulate the immune response. That is how vaccines work.

Now many on ATS are saying you can get COVID 19 twice, that getting it full blown the first time does not stimulate the immune response so that you will not get it a second time.

I think I have read that the cases people said got it twice, were really people who got it and never fully recovered and their immune systems succumbed and they regressed. That is they did not get it twice, they simply never got over it the first time but thought they did.

IF COVID 19 does not stimulate an immune response for getting it a second time, is the world doomed? If it is the case that getting it does not stimulate an immune response then no vaccine can be created to stimulate an immune response. That would mean the virus would circulate endlessly until it killed off the majority of the population of the world.

Has there been a case where someone got COVID 19 and then more than 6 months later got it again? I don't think so, but maybe some of you do.

What is your opinion based on science and not stories in social media?

Coronaviruses all mutate like crazy.

The COVID-19 coronavirus, in Iceland, mutated into more than 40 separate strains in the first month, in an infected population of only about 100 people. That's the variability that they are trying to build an immunization against.

This means that what you immunize against one month, won't necessarily even be in the mutated strains the next month.

There is hope that immunizations will pick some common and relatively stable structure that exists in most coronaviruses and this will give enough of a defense for an immune response.

The other good news is that natural selection will promote strains which are more infectious, but less deadly (the death of the host reduces the likelihood of those particular viruses infecting anyone else). Unfortunately, this is a multi-generational thing and so will take time.

I think an effective immunization is science fiction.

originally posted by: kwakakev
It is a good point you make about reinfection and an effective vaccination.

The shape of covid is a tough one to make antibodies for with all the spike proteins sticking out. If our bodies was to use an antibody that latches onto these spikes, they will also attack our own bodies as these spikes are used for ACE2 regulation. An effective antibody will need to find a gap between the spikes and part of the cell wall that is unique to covid.

When looking at treatments with zinc and hydroxycloraquine, it works by enhancing each cells own anti viral defence and attacks foreign RNA.

Some vaccination studies are trying to use a similar line of defence. Rather than target antibody production, they are looking at using RNA type methods to enhance each cells own defence against viral loads.

I thought that hydroxychloraquine worked against the cytokine storm. I haven't seen any papers on a mechanism where it provides prophylactic effect.

They used quinine to try and stop the Spanish Flu, too. It was also slightly effective then, and only against the cytokine storm of the late stage.

a reply to: chr0naut

J.C. in the Woods: Birdsong and Coffee


J.C. has been doing a good job keeping up with the literature and helping explain the evolving situation around covid. in this latest update he goes through a few of the issues mentioned in this thread.

As for all of the effects of hydroxychloraquine, I don't know.

a reply to: Phantom423

If the next variant/second wave of COVID 19 mutates so as to become more infectious that might be a good thing and speed up the incubation period where people can spread the pathogen around for 14 days or so before developing symptoms.

If that comes down to around 2 or 3 days then so will the R rate given the correct preventative measures and PPE.

Dr Paul Cottrell and Mike Adams discuss new coronavirus mutation


This recent discussion by Dr Paul Cottrell and Mike Adams also goes into some of what we do know about hydroxychloraquine and how it works.

a reply to: chr0naut

Hydroxychloroquine has some immunosuppresant action, but in this application, it is used as an anti-viral (with all that entails). Cytokine storm is when things like corticosteroids are more relevant.

It can technically be preventative, due to antiviral mechanisms in general.

Plenty of research over the years in its use regarding viral replication, particularly when understood as a zinc ionophore combined with Zinc. Lots of research into Zinc as an antiviral as well, and its efficacy is potentiated with an ionophore.

The reason why its theorized covid may be able to get caught not just twice..but perhaps every 3-6 months is because the antigens the body makes when a person gets the wuflu weakens and eventually disappears not too long after (seems asymptomatic may be weeks, symptomatic months.

A vaccine isn't that...it is far longer lasting and more powerful. You might need a topper every year or two to keep the strength up (hopefully by then it will go away considering this is way, way more contagious than the simple flu...a blessing and curse)

So yeah, a vaccine would prevent this issue.

Some say mutations would make the vaccine null and void. This is also inaccurate. most mutations are only slight mutations (but enough to become a different strain). A vaccine worth its salt blankets a number of potential variations as these variations are usually also common in certain areas, such as connection methods which is what the vaccine targets.

This isn't 1920s medicine we are working with here. Its a lot more advanced and our understandings of such thing has grown considerably.

a reply to: SourGrapes


The data isn't in yet. We just know it's more infectious because of the amino acid mutation. That means that the viral titer, or volume, that you may be exposed to can be a lot less than the original virus resulting in illness.

Here's a general article about this particular mutation:
www.technologynetworks.com...

On autopsy, many of the victims have such a wide range of tissue/organ damage that it's hard to characterize a specific set of criteria.

Summer was the big test - we knew that from the start. As it turns out, the virus hasn't cooled down, has mutated into a more lethal strain and hasn't responded like other viruses. Flu, rhinoviruses, corona viruses that cause the common cold typically cool down in the summer months. COVID just keeps motoring right along.

When flu kicks in in the fall, it may well turn into an uncontrollable catastrophe.

How long do antibodies show up in blood tests? Ive read that it may take 1 to 4 days after having COVID, for your body to begin generating antibodies. However, I cant find anything that shows how long the antibodies are active.

Will a blood test taken years later, show antibodies?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Phantom423

If the next variant/second wave of COVID 19 mutates so as to become more infectious that might be a good thing and speed up the incubation period where people can spread the pathogen around for 14 days or so before developing symptoms.

If that comes down to around 2 or 3 days then so will the R rate given the correct preventative measures and PPE.

It's possible. But the data isn't in yet so we don't know. Infectiousness may or may not be related to incubation period. Once the virus drills through the cell and hijacks the DNA machinery, it works very fast to kill replicate, kill the cell and spread like wildfire. But it would be a good thing if you were right about the shortened incubation period.

Anyone interested in the biology and development of vaccines might want to look at these websites. You can participate in research to design a vaccine or treatment for COVID. They're in the form of a game, but you can just do it on your own as well.

ETERNA works with RNA design
eternagame.org...

FOLDIT works with protein design
fold.it...

Even if you don't work with the software, there's a lot of very good educational material about COVID. Of course, both websites are focusing on a vaccine.