Longer term effects of Covid becoming apparent

bbc link

some snips

Molly Williams, a physio at BRI, has always been a super-fit athlete but "being breathless is becoming my norm" she says. On top of that she is experiencing waves of emotion, and having difficulty with her memory.For both of them, it's about three months since they first got sick.

Back in March we knew so little about this virus. We assumed that it was a respiratory illness, only to find out that it affects almost every organ in the body. We assumed that we would rely on invasive ventilation and ICU only to find out that early CPAP (non-invasive ventilation with oxygen) on the medical wards was more effective.

We know from studies of patients who had Sars - one of the family of coronaviruses - back in the 2003 epidemic, that almost half of survivors went on to have chronic fatigue or other long-lasting symptoms. So it should not be a surprise that this cunning descendant, Sars-CoV2, should have a similar inheritance.

"My resting heart rate use to be 50 and now it's about 90," she says. "Even with talking I get breathless. I'm getting overwhelming muscular fatigue in my legs and my heart rate goes up to 133-plus on walking."

Molly says she also becomes uncontrollably tearful and "overwhelmingly upset about things". And she has been having problems with her memory.

"I'm forgetting things, and I'm repeating things a few times, I'm just not retaining information. If I try and remember a word I can't. I'm having to write things down all the time just to remember them," she says.

"I've no past medical history and for it to hit me the way it has is really hard."

"I think there could be a big iceberg out there of people who've had Covid-19 and just haven't got back to normal. Every week I'm getting three or four phone calls from GPs who are saying they've seen a patient who had Covid a couple of months ago, and they're still symptomatic," Paul Whitaker says.

"In the clinic we're running we're going to be having a dietician, a physiotherapist, as well as a lot of psychological input, because patients are developing the cardiorespiratory complications, but they're also developing post-traumatic stress, anxiety, depression, and they've got neurological symptoms and chronic-fatigue-like symptoms.

More in the article but you get the picture, as if we don't already have a huge issue with mental health just dealing with modern society.

a reply to: johnb

I hope this isn't true, and it's just the BBC doing their bit (lies).

Would like to know if there are many corroborating links? (don't have time to look atm)

Thanks for sharing 👍🏼

There are a lot of articles coming put of europe, israel and asia all talking about the same thing.

Mysterious pains in limbs that no scans can figure out
Strange anxiety and mental lapses that are new to the patient
Significant exhhaustion from walking

The USA is getting 50k + per day new infections. Their entire fighting strength is being wiped out

a reply to: [post=25299553]johnb[/post I live here in Asia I can tell you one thing America Europe how many other countries are behind China in the side effects or after effects of being infected with this coronavirus
Ignore this post I am speaking but it's not what I want to say

a reply to: johnb

Many years ago, I had a serious bacterial infection from a spider bite on my arm. At that time little was known about the side effects of the antibiotic I took, Ciprofloxacin. This gave me something called Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome, aka the Floxies. The military calls this Gulf War Syndrome.

Fast forward to 2012 when I contracted a Coronavirus in my lungs which had me in isolation for 3 months. This triggered the Floxies even worse in me.

The issues these people are having are the same symptoms that people like me have had for years and years along with other issues like nerve damage, brain damage, bursting tendons and a litany of other problems.

The thing with the Floxies is there is no test, no treatment, no cure other than to live with it, just like with what's being reported here. And when the people with this syndrome first started reporting it, we got the same response from nay-sayers.

I was a marathon and triathlete and can't even walk a 1/4 mile without the worst leg fatigue you can imagine.

My doctor and I worked out a series of supplements and prescription drugs that I take daily to deal with the symptoms which are the same as what the Covid-19 victims are reporting.

a reply to: billxam

Sorry to hear that and maybe with some luck we'll get a better understanding of these after affects and will be able to help those in a similar position.

----------------

Just curious have you tried any of the herbal treatments like artemesia/wormwood?

I assume if you did they didn't help as you only mentioned meds and supplements.

Don't want thread drift though so maybe just pm IF you can be bothered
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Anything can be attributed to the virus at this point. I don't get the point of her giving a picture of herself when she was 15 doing gymnastics for the article but maybe that in itself is also a symptom.

a reply to: johnb

Apparently, the US defense forces will not accept people who have previously been hospitalized with COVID-19 because the reduced lung capacity would be a risk during intensive physical training.

originally posted by: johnb
a reply to: billxam

Sorry to hear that and maybe with some luck we'll get a better understanding of these after affects and will be able to help those in a similar position.

The understanding of the toxicity syndrome is much better due to the DoD yearly researching. The problem is as the population with the condition ages, the research becomes less important because we're dying off.

As a layperson, the symptoms that the people that had this virus are pretty similar to the toxicity syndrome in that the end symptoms are similar and the treatment course from what I understand is similar - keep throwing ideas around until something works.

I'm also concerned in that with my toxicity syndrome, the treatments are individual - that is each patient responds differently to the same treatment. If that's the case with this, there are going to be a lot of miserable people unless they can find a doctor that can treat the symptoms rather than trying to cure.

The problem that the people like me had (and still have) is the disbelief of the medical community until someone admits that there is an actual problem. The Gulf War Syndrome victims were treated as if they had a mental issue like PTSD because the VA didn't believe them. It's the same with the toxicity syndrome and probably with this from the virus.

Edited to add: I would be interested to find out if any of these people took certain classifications of antibiotics that contribute to their issues. The toxicity syndrome can lay dormant for years and years until an illness triggers it. I'd suspect that vaccines may also play a role here.

a reply to: billxam

.. I was floxed levofloxacin treatment for a dog bite. Got major lower leg ankle pain and muscle degeneration. After research I found treatment of large doses of collagen and magnesium helped reverse it as the drug depletes them . I am better but continue the supplements which also may help w covid . I hope it helps you .

a reply to: chr0naut

That was a stop gap decision because of the unknowns, once things are better mapped they will revisit that decision.

 "being breathless is becoming my norm"

This a very typical symptom when recovering from Pneumonia; fatigue a side effect of bring "breathless".

I only had a small bought of pneumonia a few years ago; took me almost a year to fully recover and feel "right again". Doing the simplest activities would leave me breathless.

originally posted by: FinallyAwake
a reply to: johnb

I hope this isn't true, and it's just the BBC doing their bit (lies).

Would like to know if there are many corroborating links? (don't have time to look atm)

Thanks for sharing 👍🏼

There's been a lot of recent studies and news. (BBC is the most accurate news in the world shortly behind Al Jazeera).

Even very minor cases have been found to cause severe brain problems.

www.uclh.nhs.uk...
academic.oup.com...
www.sciencefocus.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...
www.theguardian.com...

Of 43 patients, 29 were SARS-CoV-2 PCR positive and definite, eight probable and six possible. Five major categories emerged:

(i) encephalopathies (n = 10) with delirium/psychosis and no distinct MRI or CSF abnormalities, and with 9/10 making a full or partial recovery with supportive care only;

(ii) inflammatory CNS syndromes (n = 12) including encephalitis (n = 2, para- or post-infectious), acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (n = 9), with haemorrhage in five, necrosis in one, and myelitis in two, and isolated myelitis (n = 1). Of these, 10 were treated with corticosteroids, and three of these patients also received intravenous immunoglobulin; one made a full recovery, 10 of 12 made a partial recovery, and one patient died;

(iii) ischaemic strokes (n = 8) associated with a pro-thrombotic state (four with pulmonary thromboembolism), one of whom died;

(iv) peripheral neurological disorders (n = 8), seven with Guillain-Barré syndrome, one with brachial plexopathy, six of eight making a partial and ongoing recovery; and

(v) five patients with miscellaneous central disorders who did not fit these categories. SARS-CoV-2 infection is associated with a wide spectrum of neurological syndromes affecting the whole neuraxis, including the cerebral vasculature and, in some cases, responding to immunotherapies.

The high incidence of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, particularly with haemorrhagic change, is striking. This complication was not related to the severity of the respiratory COVID-19 disease.

Lol the medical and science community can't know "the long term effects" the thing has only been here 8-9 months max, Not to mention every one of them is trying to hang their hat on some theory or worse push some agenda. I'm finding out with my Meniere's disease diagnosis the medical community has many and a wide variety of treatment options most with side effects that are almost as worrisome as the affliction itself. Some say do this, other doctors say don't do that, etc. etc. Once you get on the pharmaceutical drug train it's constantly adjusting dosages, while watching what else you put in your body.

Unfortunately, there is likely no one correct answer, I'd be highly suspect on any new drug for COVID for the next decade if not longer. Said it before this is the same community that touted Zantac and Prilosec for 2 decades and now it's been linked to all kinds of cancers etc. More than likely some people are just more susceptible to complications than others, and then they fall into the snowball of the drug treatments and their side effects.

I use to love the BBC and their content, but like everywhere else I'd take everything with a huge grain of salt.

a reply to: johnb

I'm not so sure this is CoVid itself, as opposed to other factors.

A known side effect of hydroxychloroquine is brain fog and other adverse effects on cognitive function. We don't know how many of these patients received hydroxychloroquine, but that's a good place to start.

Vitamin D deficiency is known to contribute to the severity of CoVid. Vitamin D deficiency is also known to be essential to lung function. If Vitamin D levels have been depleted and not supplemented properly and efficiently, lung issues would not be a surprise.

If I didn't already take 5,000 IUs of Vitamin D3 daily, and especially if I was worried about CoVid, I would sure start now... less than $5 for 100 mini-gelcaps and about $10 for 365 mini-gelcaps at Vitacost. And, if I weren't already, I'd add some liposomal Vitamin C, 1,000 to 2,000 mgs per day. (Warning for the men: you may develop kidney stones with Vitamin C supplementation over 3,500 mg per day, so please don't over-do it!!!).

I'm side-eyeing this comment as well:

We assumed that we would rely on invasive ventilation and ICU only to find out that early CPAP (non-invasive ventilation with oxygen) on the medical wards was more effective.

No, not "assumed"... they CHOSE to rely on invasive ventilation because they were too damn scared of catching the virus themselves if they used non-invasive CPAP and BiPAP.

Any idea if lung expanding an cleansing exerciseslike certain meditations(like Yogi Skullshiner/Breath of Fire) or the bodybuilding vacuum pose help? Wouldnt recommend trying with full force an taking it very slow an gently.

I know it pain an the ass to do when it come to stuffy noses but it might help with anxiety an high heart rates if down gently.

first up, i am dealing with lupus.
lifting weights, is actually good, because its burts of strength, no long term hits of damage.

ive been jogging everyday and can lift only once a week or so in a home gym, 2 hour drive there, 2 hour drive back. hence only lifting to maintain.

what i can tell you?
jogging has decimated my joints.

i was on the upswing in january, now thanks to the nationless trillionaires, im in pain 247 again.

i jog slow, so i can do minimum 20 minutes. i try to go to 30 on the regular tho. i also do sprints AFTER jogging.

anyways, sure im in pain, but i know mentally its better to have physical pain, and be high from endorphins and have a clear mind.

basically if you are getting out of breath, you need to work around this concept, not let it stop you in your workouts.

Sure doesn't sound like "the flu".

Lots of thing are not adding up.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Sure doesn't sound like "the flu".

Lots of thing are not adding up.

This all adds up pretty solidly, actually.

This is what pathogens can do.. people are only becoming aware of it now and its being marketed as something super unique.

Many auto-immune disorders, conditions like diabetes, long term damage of lungs, cardiovascular issues, neurological issues, etc. have long been thought to be precipitated by viral infections in many cases. I suspect that our understanding is severely lacking there, but its not new.

This is particularly true for novel viruses. Again, the emergence of a "novel virus" is marketed as something that has Nevar Evar happened before, but they occur a lot more frequently than most imagine. The pathogen itself may be "new," but novel viruses are not. And, as the population starts to build an immune response, we will see a higher prevalence of cytokine storms. Cytokine storms can present in a plethora of ways, given their nature, and they can definitely do damage. Notably, they still occur with pathogens that have had a longer presence too.

Now, when its coupled with the approach of using things like ventilators to increase pressure.. Well, that person is almost certainly going to have long term damage (if they make it out alive at all).

At this point, Im beginning to suspect that covid is only tangentially related to SARS-CoV-2 and that, as a disease, it might be unmasking the longterm, severe damage that has been inflicted on the health of the general public. Now though, they have an opportunity to not only cover all that up, particularly the concerning rising trend in the percentage of all-cause deaths year after year, but to also gain more control, dependency, and profit than ever.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: chr0naut

That was a stop gap decision because of the unknowns, once things are better mapped they will revisit that decision.

The stop gap was that anyone who tested positive could not apply. That has changed after re-evaluation.