Kids are ending up in intensive care for COVID-related syndrome

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: IgnorantGod
a reply to: neoholographic

Let them use their own ingenuity to deal with it. People aren't entitled to help or safety, which is just an illusion anyway. It is not about letting people die rather than minding its own business.

And these people won't let themselves die, there'll be survival that'll keep the place populated for next generations until extinction occurs in someway.

Then extinction, it is a cycle, and like any cycle, it tends to repeat itself over and over until some force disturbs it and makes it to collapse.

Your appeal to emotions still brings you nowhere. You let people to their own fate, and there'll sure be some that'll find ways to do it with their own definition of "comfort".

We're not entitled to saftey?

Not from me, you're not. You should never demand nor expect any semblance of safety courtesy of anyone but yourself. If YOU want to live any kind of life at all, its YOUR JOB to see to it that you keep on living as you deem fit. Now, I know you're going to go all strawman and "But, but, but the po-po for example provide you safety--" Yeah. No s#, Sherlock, its their job. JOB. Not MY job, THEIRS. YOUR job is to mind yourself, your life, your health, your safety, and do not be a washout in the end.
It's not my responsibility to bubble wrap you on account of a bunch of What Ifs for 6 or 7 decades. How is that hard to understand?

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: IgnorantGod
a reply to: neoholographic

Let them use their own ingenuity to deal with it. People aren't entitled to help or safety, which is just an illusion anyway. It is not about letting people die rather than minding its own business.

And these people won't let themselves die, there'll be survival that'll keep the place populated for next generations until extinction occurs in someway.

Then extinction, it is a cycle, and like any cycle, it tends to repeat itself over and over until some force disturbs it and makes it to collapse.

Your appeal to emotions still brings you nowhere. You let people to their own fate, and there'll sure be some that'll find ways to do it with their own definition of "comfort".

We're not entitled to saftey?

Not from me, you're not. You should never demand nor expect any semblance of safety courtesy of anyone but yourself. If YOU want to live any kind of life at all, its YOUR JOB to see to it that you keep on living as you deem fit. Now, I know you're going to go all strawman and "But, but, but the po-po for example provide you safety--" Yeah. No s#, Sherlock, its their job. JOB. Not MY job, THEIRS. YOUR job is to mind yourself, your life, your health, your safety, and do not be a washout in the end.
It's not my responsibility to bubble wrap you on account of a bunch of What Ifs for 6 or 7 decades. How is that hard to understand?

That makes no sense.

Why do you think your tax dollars is spent on weapons?

To keep Americans safe!

Why do you think your tax dollars is spent on ICE and securing the border?

To keep Americans safe!

Why do you think your tax dollars is spent on making sure meat has an expiration date and it's inspected for safety?

To keep Americans safe!

Why do you think your tax dollars is spent on Homeland Security after 9/11?

To keep Americans safe!

I can go on and on. I pay taxes so yes I'm entitled to measures that keep me and my family safe.

The CDC gets 11.1 billion a year.

When there's a pandemic I expect them to help keep Americans safe and minimizing the outbreak.

You're not making any sense.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: IgnorantGod
a reply to: neoholographic

Let them use their own ingenuity to deal with it. People aren't entitled to help or safety, which is just an illusion anyway. It is not about letting people die rather than minding its own business.

And these people won't let themselves die, there'll be survival that'll keep the place populated for next generations until extinction occurs in someway.

Then extinction, it is a cycle, and like any cycle, it tends to repeat itself over and over until some force disturbs it and makes it to collapse.

Your appeal to emotions still brings you nowhere. You let people to their own fate, and there'll sure be some that'll find ways to do it with their own definition of "comfort".

We're not entitled to saftey?

Not from me, you're not. You should never demand nor expect any semblance of safety courtesy of anyone but yourself. If YOU want to live any kind of life at all, its YOUR JOB to see to it that you keep on living as you deem fit. Now, I know you're going to go all strawman and "But, but, but the po-po for example provide you safety--" Yeah. No s#, Sherlock, its their job. JOB. Not MY job, THEIRS. YOUR job is to mind yourself, your life, your health, your safety, and do not be a washout in the end.
It's not my responsibility to bubble wrap you on account of a bunch of What Ifs for 6 or 7 decades. How is that hard to understand?

Does that including bashing in someones face if they refuse to use proper distancing and other protective measures? It is my life and my safety, so why not?

Most likely it`s the EMF radiation that causes the symptoms with those kids in UK, how nice to have 5G eh ?

Welcome to the brave new World where kids are fried , still noone HAS the right to question the safety of wireless industry.


People dont anymore have the ownership of their kids, the state owns the children and can do what ever to them when ever....kids are consumers and are instructed to use mobile phones as young possible . New cell towers are installed near you to serve consumers so telecommunication corporations get their money .

The society is getting dangerous to it`s inhabitants, but no....you dont have any right to question is the society dangerous to it`s inhabitants...you are here to serve the society and consumer...you dont start ask questions, never ,period.


How dare you! to question the safety , we have rolled out so many studys to show everything is perfectly safe. Now ...go to you room and shut up!

a reply to: neoholographic

I think there's 2 things going on here. On one side you have alarmist and on the other side you have people who want to act like it's nothing which is crazy. Even with a low death rate, without quarantine you can easily see 100 million infected with close to 500,000 deaths because this spreads so fast.

So it's easy to yell this is nothing when it's not your Mother, Father or Grandparents who died. It's easy to say this is nothing when it's not your 5 year old daughter who died from brain swelling due to coronavirus.

Fearmonger much? Your own articles clearly state it's probably not related to Covid-19 because it has very different symptoms such as diarrhea, which isn't a symptom of Covid-19. Your framing of the situation is also ridiculous, a small fraction of people may be saying Covid-19 doesn't exist or is completely harmless, but most people such as myself are saying we need a more balanced and realist approach to the situation instead of all this highly emotional sensationalism. Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly. It's also clear by looking at places which had minimal restrictions that the lock-downs also had a minimal benefit. The fact is children have a higher risk of dying from a common stomach bug than CV19, even the flu appears to be more deadly for children than CV19 because nearly all children have little to no CV19 symptoms.

The story is different for older people, CV19 does appear more severe than a flu in higher age groups. As me and many others have been saying, the highest risk groups should be self-isolating but younger people who want to work should be allowed to. Several experts have already pointed out how these excessive shutdowns only act to prolong the time it takes to gain herd immunity and for CV19 to evolve into a less deadly form. My grandfather was recently diagnosed with cancer, eventually something is going to get people in old age so stop exploiting their susceptibility in your appeal to our morality and empathy, I'm getting extremely tired of it. At this point I'm starting to think NPC's are a real thing and they're programmed to spit out lines like "we must think of the children and the old people, beep boop, how dare anyone suggest otherwise, if you don't align with our hive mind you must be evil".

This is what happens when the world is full of weak minded and highly reactionary social justice warriors who let their emotions control their every action. It's a very sad state of affairs when the world has forgotten how to use logic and common sense, but that's exactly what I believe is happening here. Just suggesting anything less than a full scale lockdown is required is an assault to their world paradigm because there's no possible way the MSM could be wrong in their mind, just one single death is one death too many, we must stay inside until CV19 is totally gone, etc. It's the same old unrealistic utopian thinking which is based on false morality. Shaming people and calling them evil doesn't at all help the argument, besides my grandparents and parents have left the house a lot more than me, they cannot even follow the rules which are supposed to be protecting them. The entire situation is ridiculous and so is this thread.

On a related note, I think I actually experienced this new illness a couple of days ago because the symptoms sound very similar to what I experienced. I had a sudden onset of extremely intense stomach pain, I thought it was just gas or something at first but it continued for several hours. It felt like food poisoning because of the stomach pain, however I vomit when I get food poisoning and that didn't happen, I only had diarrhea and I felt almost entirely better the next day, which doesn't seem typical of food poisoning. The OP's article used the words "toxic shock", which is a good way to describe it. I felt like I'd been poisoned because I went from normal to very bad pain within minutes and was very light headed for an hour or so.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You sound ridiculous and your own quote destroys your argument. You said:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

Think of how silly your whole post is based on this one sentence.

First off, thank God things are not as worse as some thought it could be but who knew this? We had no data and we're dealing with a new virus.

Trump and histask force did the right thing. Easily, the opposite thing could have occurred and it could have been worse than some predictions. We had no idea but over time the data has allowed them to better handle the situation.

Think about how nutty your posts sounds in light of that statement.

The lockdowns were very important to flatten the curve based on some of the only data we had coming out of China and Italy. Also, thee Doctors and Scientist needed the time to collect more data to know what we're dealing with. Cases were growing rapidly in New York and The President and his task force didn't want the same thing to happen in other States.

Again, your post is devoid of any common sense in light of this statement:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

THE NUMBERS ARE NOW SHOWING THAT CLEARLY!

What numbers did they have when this first started to take off Einstein? They had limited data.

Trump and the task force did the right thing with the lockdowns and now with reopening things in phases.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and now you and other guys are beating your chest saying we shouldn't have had lockdowns and people were just fearmongering.

People just didn't know what we were dealing with because we had limited data to go on and YOU ADMIT THIS EINSTEIN! You probably didn't realize it when you were typing it but again you saide:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

the numbers are NOW showing......

Well how can you judge the lockdown based on data that was obtained because of the lockdown? By your own admission, we didn't have the data. So the President and his task force weren't fearmongering they were protecting Americans because they had a lack of dats and they didn't want other States to turn into NY and NJ.

Now, it's a good thing they're more vigilant and asking questions about kids getting sick and both Covid and non Covid kids sharing some similar symptoms. What's alarmist about that?

This is what I mean. It's not black and white or either or. We became more vigilant after 9/11 and rightly so. It's most likely nothing but now we might be better prepared if another pandemic occurs. Again, what's wrong with that? I will tell you, NOTHING!

a reply to: neoholographic

People just didn't know what we were dealing with because we had limited data to go on and YOU ADMIT THIS EINSTEIN!

We did know because we could see people with the symptoms, hence why I wrote a thread over a month and a half ago pointing out how the MSM was exploiting the situation and over-hyping the severity of CV19. I wasn't just making a wild guess, I have eyeballs and a brain which allow me to see through their propaganda and fearmongering. Your argument is equivalent to saying any time a new bug pops up, we should just halt the world economy and hide inside for several months until we figure out exactly how deadly the virus is, regardless of the risk factors, every person of every age should self-isolate and stop working. Yes... that's a really big brain Einstein idea if I ever saw one.

Again, what's wrong with that? I will tell you, NOTHING!

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with millions of people out of work, nothing wrong with economic figures on par with the great recession all around the world, nothing wrong with our governments creating massive amounts of money which will cause a large amount of inflation, nothing wrong with a big rise in depression and number of people committing suicide, nothing wrong with people getting minimal sunlight and human contact, nothing wrong with having our freedoms stripped away over fearmongering BS, there's nothing wrong with any of that at all if you're a true intellectual like yourself.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

This statement shows how delusional you are:

Your argument is equivalent to saying any time a new bug pops up, we should just halt the world economy and hide inside for several months until we figure out exactly how deadly the virus is, regardless of the risk factors, every person of every age should self-isolate and stop working.

First off, it's easy to try and act like Nostradamus after the fact but your statement from your previous post destroys your argument in every way. I'll repeat it:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

It's easy for a person that has no responsibility for people's lives to puff himself on a post on ATS after the fact but as President, Trump and his team were seeing growing deaths in Italy and deaths rising in places like NY and NJ. He doesn't have the luxury of acting like Nostradamus after the fact.

They didn't have the data ACCORDING TO YOU and they did the right thing. It could have easily took a turn for the worse. Like I said, it's easy to beat your chest and act like Sylvia Browne when you have zero responsibility for over 300 million lives.

Secondly, this is still serious and and that's not fearmongering, that's basic common sense. Here's a recent report from Italy about coronavirus in air pollution.



Here's a NY Doctor who recently committed suicide after seeing so many deaths in NY.



When I watch videos like that and here first responders talk about what they're seein then hear people like you trying to act like some soothsayer after the fact, it's truly asinine.

At the time, we didn't have the data and the President didn't want what was happening in NY, NJ, Italy and elswhere to spread to other States.

If they did nothing, this virus would have spread like wildfire through places like NY, NJ, Philadelphia and more. Even with the lockdown you have Doctors and EMT's committing suicide in the face of seeing so much death.



The point is, there's no need to go overboard with alarm but there's also no need to act like some sort of Psychic after the fact. The data wasn't there at the time according to you.

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

So stop patting yourself on the back because you think you're some sort of soothsayer. You didn't have the responsibility of 300 million lives in your hand and a growing Pandemic caused by a new virus.

I bet a lot of these children had co-morbidities anyway.

How many of them were obese, diabetics, , IV drug users, alcoholics, chainsmokers, etc?

I mean, dying "of" covid is different than dying "with" covid19, amiright?

They should just self-isolate and let the rest of us get back to work.

a reply to: neoholographic

It's easy for a person that has no responsibility for people's lives to puff himself on a post on ATS after the fact but as President, Trump and his team were seeing growing deaths in Italy and deaths rising in places like NY and NJ. He doesn't have the luxury of acting like Nostradamus after the fact.

I'm not criticizing Trumps handling of it at all, like you say he had no choice in the matter, and he would have been endlessly criticized had he done less, he's criticized regardless of what he does anyway. That doesn't change the fact that places which didn't have strict lock-downs managed to survive and had none of the predicted doomsday consequences, and are probably in far better economic position than the rest of the world right now. The people in the know have known for many months how severe CV19 really is, so I'm not buying into this argument that all of this panic is justified because it was for benign purposes. I've lived too long on this planet to have such a naive point of view, this event was exploited from top to bottom and start to finish by the MSM fear merchants, and they knew exactly what they were doing along the way.

I’m gonna get shot down for this, so first I’ll say that I’ve travelled much of the US and have the greatest respect for the people. But I’m disturbed by a message coming from the states to the ear of this non-American fan of Americans...

There seems to be a very vociferous minority/majority (hard to tell) who are claiming that you don’t need the lockdown and the social distancing that it entails because the virus is maybe not as bad as first thought.

Yet, from an outsider’s pov it’s clearly, undoubtably lower than it could’ve been because of the lockdown and social distancing.

So to be screaming for an end to lockdown because the curve may just about be flattering out sounds like a people begging for the right to run into oncoming traffic.

It’s like compressing a bad wound, but as soon as the blood stops gushing, because your covering it, saying ‘Look, it’s not bleeding, we didn’t need to compress the wound in the first place...’

Well, you did need to compress it and guess what, if you remove that compress to soon it’s gonna start gushing again.

I’m sure that’ll offend people, but that’s how it sounds to my humble ears across the Atlantic. Good luck with that!

originally posted by: McGinty

Yet, from an outsider’s pov it’s clearly, undoubtably lower than it could’ve been because of the lockdown and social distancing.

Yes it's very likely less people have died than otherwise would have without lockdowns, but that doesn't change the fatality ratio and it doesn't mean the same amount of people wont die in the long run after most people have caught Covid-19. Delaying the spread doesn't necessarily lower the number of people who will die it only spreads it out over a longer time period which makes it easier for hospitals to handle it, which was the original plan, now it seems to have morphed into "we must eradicate CV19 from the face of the Earth regardless of how long it takes". Even without lockdowns it's very questionable whether hospitals would have been overrun based on the current data, especially in areas which don't have the density of large cities. If CV19 keeps spreading, which it certainly will, then the people who catch it still have the same risk of dying unless they've already had it before. The death ratio doesn't get lower because less people are infected, as I explained the other day in another thread (btw I'm not American and there's people from all around the world making these same arguments, including doctors):

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

If we can estimate how many people were infected, and we know how many people died, then we roughly know the percentage of people that will die if they contract Covid-19. The fatality ratio doesn't change in a place where less people are infected, it's a constant ratio which determines the severity of a virus. Factors which may change the ratio are things like the average age of a population, older populations will tend to have a higher ratio of deaths.

Even without knowing the exact fatality ratio, we can still judge the severity of Covid-19 based on its symptoms, and as we know the symptoms are actually quite tame. So much so that nearly all kids barely even feel it and many adults also have no symptoms. Those who do have severe symptoms are more often than not very old or have pre-existing conditions. It may affect some younger people in a more severe way in rare cases, but the flu kills thousands of children each year, a lot more than Covid-19 has so far. Common stomach bugs kill even more kids than the flu.

This is why I've been saying from almost the very start that only the highest risk groups should be self-isolating and we shouldn't be halting the global economy. Even without clear or trustworthy numbers it was obvious to me that the MSM was overreacting because I could see real people with the virus reporting their symptoms and experiences. I still think it's possible that our governments know it leaked from a lab or something like that, and that's the real reason for the panic, otherwise I have to believe that the MSM exploited the situation to boost their dwindling ratings and bring them back from the brink of extinction.

originally posted by: McGinty
I’m gonna get shot down for this, so first I’ll say that I’ve travelled much of the US and have the greatest respect for the people. But I’m disturbed by a message coming from the states to the ear of this non-American fan of Americans...

There seems to be a very vociferous minority/majority (hard to tell) who are claiming that you don’t need the lockdown and the social distancing that it entails because the virus is maybe not as bad as first thought.

Yet, from an outsider’s pov it’s clearly, undoubtably lower than it could’ve been because of the lockdown and social distancing.

So to be screaming for an end to lockdown because the curve may just about be flattering out sounds like a people begging for the right to run into oncoming traffic.

It’s like compressing a bad wound, but as soon as the blood stops gushing, because your covering it, saying ‘Look, it’s not bleeding, we didn’t need to compress the wound in the first place...’

Well, you did need to compress it and guess what, if you remove that compress to soon it’s gonna start gushing again.

I’m sure that’ll offend people, but that’s how it sounds to my humble ears across the Atlantic. Good luck with that!

Great points!

Without the lockdown it would have been much worse. You can't just say, self isolate for some and allow other people not to. That's just crazy.

First, we had limited data as the previous poster admitted to.

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

Secondly, people want to be dime store Psychics after the fact. We had limited data and it's easy to act like Nostradamus when you're not responsible for over 300 million American lives.

You would have killed so many people. People have underlying conditions and don't even know it. Lockdowns were the best move.

I have to repeat this part of your post because it's just basic common sense.

There seems to be a very vociferous minority/majority (hard to tell) who are claiming that you don’t need the lockdown and the social distancing that it entails because the virus is maybe not as bad as first thought.

Yet, from an outsider’s pov it’s clearly, undoubtably lower than it could’ve been because of the lockdown and social distancing.

So to be screaming for an end to lockdown because the curve may just about be flattering out sounds like a people begging for the right to run into oncoming traffic.

WELL SAID!!

a reply to: neoholographic

Without the lockdown it would have been much worse. You can't just say, self isolate for some and allow other people not to. That's just crazy.

No it's not at all crazy, it's called common sense, it's about protecting the most vulnerable groups without risking a global economic collapse. Sweden took exactly that approach, an author from Sweden said "It is not Sweden that is conducting a mass experiment. It is all other countries that are doing it." and that is exactly right, this type of forced global lockdown is an unprecedented experiment in economics and social order. Italy, Spain, France, and the UK all have a higher number of deaths per 1M people than Sweden does, despite all those places having strict lockdowns. Yes Sweden is at the higher end of the scale in terms of deaths per 1M people, but the fact they are below several nations with strict lockdowns tells you all you need to know. They didn't suffer a doomsday scenario, they did the sensible thing and now they will probably benefit greatly from it.

Secondly, people want to be dime store Psychics after the fact. We had limited data and it's easy to act like Nostradamus when you're not responsible for over 300 million American lives.

That's rich coming from the person who makes it their life mission to post as many threads as humanly possible about how reality is an illusion and everything is created by conscious observers. If you still stick by that belief then why can't we just prevent ourselves getting sick by believing hard enough? Suddenly you believe some things can have a real material consequence huh? I used simple logic to reach my conclusion, it has nothing to do with psychic power and everything to do with thinking for myself instead of being socially pressured to follow the hive mind because if I don't then I clearly don't care about old people are children.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: neoholographic
What are the underlying medical conditions? What is the full detailed info/account of each?

Exactly. They said it was 'rare'... so those questions are extremely important to determine who needs more protection, so that parents can protect their children.

I'm also wondering if this isn't related to who got what vaccines and when.

a reply to: neoholographic

Secondly, people want to be dime store Psychics after the fact. We had limited data and it's easy to act like Nostradamus when you're not responsible for over 300 million American lives.

That's exactly what is wrong with people in "developed countries", they get rid of their responsability for their own life, and throw it to an entity seen as an authority. Then, they "feel" they are entitled to protection from these entities and that they have full responsabilities for these people's "safety", which initialy, doesn't even exist outside a conscious mind to "feel" the "sentiment of safety".

It is an irrational behavior. Is it fear or laziness that drives people to offer their life's conditions to an authority? I guess it depends amongs individuals, yet it is still not a great idea to begin with. People should take their responsabilities to live as they see fit.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

First off, I'm sure you're upset about losing every debate you enter with your materialist nonsense, but sadly for you, I'm not going to take the bait. You're trying to divert attention away from your asinine posts on this thread. If you want to debate consciousness or QM I have a bunch of threads in the Science&Technology forum you can debate.

On this thread, let's stick to the topic. This is what you want to avoid:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

This line destroys everything you say.

Sweden has a population of 10 million people vs. America with a population of over 320 million. Apples and Oranges.

In Countries with comparable popullations Sweden ranks higher.

It's easy for a Country of 10 million people it's easy to reach for herd immunity. If we tried that in America, there would be millions dead from this virus.

So far you're 0 for 2.

Like I said, Trump and the task force did the right thing with the lockdown and saved lives.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Sweden has a population of 10 million people vs. America with a population of over 320 million. Apples and Oranges.

If that were how it works the most populated nations would be the hardest hit, what really matters is population density, that's why places such as New York City and the UK got hit so hard. That is the main factor which determines how fast CV19 will spread, and the average age of a population is the main factor which determines the fatality ratio. Perhaps in the most dense areas a full lockdown does make sense, but overall it does more harm than it prevents and that's my main concern. You guys just don't even want to acknowledge the repercussions, it's like they don't even exist in your mind, you outright claimed that there was nothing bad about it... like usual your perspective is completely one-sided and you quickly resort to making personal attacks. This is exactly why I try to avoid your threads, but I had to post in this one because the premise of it was just so absurd and misleading, and it is regardless of how you try to spin it.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Now you're just making things up. You said:

You guys just don't even want to acknowledge the repercussions, it's like they don't even exist in your mind, you outright claimed that there was nothing bad about it.

Where did I outright claim there was nothing bad about it. Quote my outright claim.

Like I said, there needs to be a balance. The statement in your post destroys any argument you make:

Yes CV19 exists and it is capable of killing some people, but the fact is the severity has been massively overestimated and the numbers are now showing that clearly.

You're trying to act like Nostradamus after the fact when you admit the data wasn't there. Hindsight is always 20/20 but they were dealing with this with limited data.