Corona Virus Updates Part 6

originally posted by: puzzled2
So if the Omicron is 500% more infectious and less deadly than a already paid for Vaccine. Who would get the jab?

So this new variant is so much more infectious than the last variant. And that variant was so much more infectious than the one that preceded it. And that variant was much more infectious than the one before it. And so on, and so on.

Really?

If that all is true, then I suspect we can all become infected by it now by just reading about it or listening to people talk about it.

Again, REALLY?

I switched over to last night's BBC Question Time just in time to see Professor Peter Openshaw say that Omicron symptons appear to be more severe than previous variants.

The host picked him up on that statements, asking him, wasn't it the case that the S. African Dr who discovered has Omicron said it appears that although it may be more infectious, symptoms appear to be milder?

Openshaw was visibly lost for a moment, before answering evasively that it was more severe - that it was more infectious. He dodged correcting himself - that symptoms are not more severe - whilst also avoiding reiterating his original statement that symptoms are more severe.

I think it's fairly safe to infer from that he was full of sh!t. Seems he had been caught out trying to embellish the severity of Omicron. Why? Was he following orders to do so, or was this his own personal agenda, or incompetence, or simply the panic of being on the telly?

Either way it shows that we can't trust the 'experts' (especially on telly).

originally posted by: Rich Z

originally posted by: puzzled2
So if the Omicron is 500% more infectious and less deadly than a already paid for Vaccine. Who would get the jab?

So this new variant is so much more infectious than the last variant. And that variant was so much more infectious than the one that preceded it. And that variant was much more infectious than the one before it. And so on, and so on.

Really?

If that all is true, then I suspect we can all become infected by it now by just reading about it or listening to people talk about it.

Again, REALLY?

This now sounds like washing up liquid adverts, each year there's 'NEW FAIRY ULTRA POWER! NOW 30% MORE CLEANING POWER!' How bad must it have been 50 years ago? Now we have NEW ULTRON OMICRON POWER VARIANT! NOW 5000% MORE TRANSMISSABLE! etc etc. Getting tedious now.

a reply to: doorhandle

It does indeed seem to be getting tedious. I have exactly the same really bad feeling about this - about the deluge of propaganda hyping the latest variant to push the latest booster. However... this pattern fits a benevolent non-conspiratorial profile as well as it fits the malevolent conspiracy.

...If Covid isn't after all a ploy to inject us all with something insidious - if tptb really are playing catch up to a virus that's out of their control, something evolving in what direction they simply can't tell yet; and importantly, if they sincerely believe that although the ability of the vaccine against omicron is as yet unknown it is nevertheless in their best judgement the only weapon they have and they believe that while it doesn't stop transmission or infection it may make it slightly less transmittable and infection less severe to some extent... then all of the 'washing up liquid' spin (great analogy btw) makes benevolent sense.

Without inside knowledge or any greater intel on the inner mechanics of the decision making it can only be a frustrating 50/50 gamble to believe the hype or reject it. All we can do as individuals is throw our chip on red or black with no dependable insight either way.

Caveat: The vaccine is of course 'not all they can do', as i melodramatised above. Social distancing is a more effective plan until we know exactly how well the vaccine tackles omicron. But the confused policies and messages around distancing isn't necessarily evidence of a malevolent evil-vaccine conspiracy, but more likely evidence of governments sadly placing greater priority on the economy that on the lives at risk.

a reply to: Rich Z

from what is coming out of South Africa, yes, it is.
Their cases have doubled almost daily since monday.
They haven't sequenced all of the cases, but they suspect it's Omicron.
I read a thing this evening that the South Africans have found that it reinfects very well, those who have had any of the previous variants of covid.

It also infects those who are double or even triple vaccinated.
Outcomes seem to be better for those who are vaccinated, or who have prior infection with covid.
It wouldn't seem to be worse for the unvaccinated yet, but only time will tell.

The main problem with this, is it will take at least two weeks to get any idea what it's doing.
One week to get sufficient data, and one more week to confirm, and add to the dataset.

Going on the SA info so far, it would seem it's more infectious than all of the previous strains, maybe by quite a bit.
Time, and data gathering is the slow part here, there are no quick answers i'm afraid.

The Forbes Guy has a new article on "Omicron Origins".

Link

He's usually worth the read.

a reply to: McGinty

Any real doctor would have said severe flu is a bastard, Take your D C and Zinc, and don't get into a situation where you can catch it.Now the propaganda is way over the top and one really now has to ask what is really going on?

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: McGinty

Any real doctor would have said severe flu is a bastard, Take your D C and Zinc, and don't get into a situation where you can catch it.Now the propaganda is way over the top and one really now has to ask what is really going on?

Like, wear a mask, perhaps?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

that's a great device for improving the immune system and preventing the over reaction of it to a viral infection.






not.

so the headline is Over 50 infected with COVID after Christmas party in Norway in Omicron outbreak

The information in the article is

At least 50 Christmas party-goers have been infected with Covid in Norway which may lead to be world’s biggest Omicron outbreak.

Staff from renewable energy company Scatec reportedly attended the event on November 26 in Oslo.

One person from the group has tested positive for the Omicron variant so far with more cases expected to follow, Oslo’s authorities said on Thursday.

A spokesperson said: “We are working actively with contact tracing to limit the spread and prevent bigger outbreaks.”

It is believed at least one of the guests had recently returned from the company’s Cape Town office.

bolding mine

So 1 person was in South Africa, 1 person has a positive test result, paper paper published dec 3.
How long before an omicron test/symptom appea?.

So assume they tested the other 49 and the 1 positive IS the same as the recently returned from South Africa.
The headline should read "49 people could have been exposed to Omicron at a party".

This would be a good cluster to watch for information on spread and infection. Depending on who the "Positive Case" interacted with at the party.

Unfortunately the newspaper article didn't have names, addresses, ages, vaccinated status or levels of vitamin D of the party goers. So please don't ask me.

I wonder which really came first, the discovery of omicron, or those governments yelling about it having pre-ordered billions of £, $ and € worth of booster jabs.

When the scientists don’t yet know how much, or even if the booster negates omicron, then the first response should be containment, meaning social distancing and closing boarders until the weeks have passed that allow the facts to be determined.

Instead we see omicron used to push a rushed booster campaign en masse. This odd focus on vaccine over containment in a situation that should obviously prioritise containment is highly questionable, making it more than a little suspicious to even the meekest of minds.

So I wonder if there’s a correlation between populace average IQ and vaccine booster up take? I’m guessing that those with low booster up take, who are now making it mandatory, have a higher median IQ.

www.reuters.com...Omicron variant may have picked up a piece of common-cold virus

Cells in the lungs and in the gastrointestinal system can harbor SARS-CoV-2 and common-cold coronaviruses simultaneously, according to earlier studies. Such co-infection sets the scene for viral recombination, a process in which two different viruses in the same host cell interact while making copies of themselves, generating new copies that have some genetic material from both "parents."

This new mutation could have first occurred in a person infected with both pathogens when a version of SARS-CoV-2 picked up the genetic sequence from the other virus, Soundararajan and colleagues said in the study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed.

The same genetic sequence appears many times in one of the coronaviruses that causes colds in people - known as HCoV-229E - and in the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) that causes AIDS, Soundararajan said.

Well, hopefully, this coinfection will yield mostly milder cases and less severe ones.

a reply to: smirnoffsky

Hopeful and kind of terrifying in the abundance of opportunity there seems to be for this, or I guess any virus to go from harmless to killer or visa versa.

a reply to: McGinty


True that this could go either way. Best to be vigilant and just keep track of how things will develop. In some ways, ATS seems to be ahead of the curve in reporting or even predicting such occurrences as I did read about these possible coinfections from here, months ahead of that link I posted.

Not sure if this October interview as been shown here.

Discussion on the Pandemic and the Great Barrington v Fauci with costs of lockdowns.

250,000 children died due to poverty.
Millions failed to follow-up with Health treatment for serious conditions Heart / Cancer etc.


Lockdowns protected the least vulnerable and put at risk the most vulnerable.. Notice the Essential workers in grocery stores hospitals and every work place that couldn't be done by laptops.

Should be listened to by both sides to enable the rational discussions.

a reply to: smirnoffsky

This is going to turn out to be very interesting. Evidence is pointing to a recombination we did not want to happen. Either alpha variant in some form and delta or one of the variants and a seasonal coronavirus. These things happen, with influenza it’s known as reassortment and antigenic shift and leads to pandemics. In coronaviruses it’s known as recombination (antigenic shift) and well, that lead to a pandemic.

RNA viruses mutate. SARS-CoV-2 mutates less than others, because of ExoN, a protein that edits the RNA against the source templates to sustain its large genome. This is why it is attenuating slowly. You can have a point mutation in which a nucleotide is changed, ExoN misses it due to referencing the wrong template or the mutation gives the virus an advantage and it sustains the mutation. This is called antigenic drift as it drifts and slowly changes from its original genome. Immune escape and vaccine breakthrough can slowly happen here as beneficial changes build up slowly with each replication.

Insertions are another consideration, RNA from a different source than the original template is inserted into the genome from host or other viral RNA in some form. Sometimes due to sheer blind luck, it’s beneficial and changes a structure that gives the virus an advantage. It can also completely change structures and can cause immune escape and vaccine breakthrough more quickly.

Then there is recombination (or reassortment in segmented genomes like influenza) that leads to something called antigenic shift. That is, two genomes or segments from two or more different viruses are used as the template during generation of new virions. Influenza has segmented genes so they just sort differently as they are packaged. Coronavirus uses discontinuous transcription in generating subgenomic RNA. It reads these in a different direction and it helps save space. During all this jumping around, template switching occurs and it is occurring so often that what ends up happening is one combination of the two or more templates removes genes less effective for transmission or virulence while receiving those that give it an advantage. So that new virus outcompetes the others and you have a potentially novel variant or strain. Immune escape and vaccine breakthrough are immediate and you get a pandemic or epidemic.

This most likely occurred in an immunocompromised patient and looking at South Africa and the data, an unvaccinated/never infected HIV positive patient is appropriate here. They would have an increased chance of abnormal and reduced signaling and allow this virus to escape their immune system and spread to others. Insertion and recombination are the two most likely issues that occurred here.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

I read somewhere recently where they were talking about there being something to do with one of the Common Cold Coronavirus's.
I don't remember recombination or antigenic shift being mentioned, but i think someone recognized it in one of the new variants.

Maybe why Omicron BA.1 seems so mild ?

There"s also a BA.2 omicron variant, that they are dubbing a "Strealth Strain", and have given it it's own lineage.

Theres a Guardian Atricle on it here :
Scientists find ‘stealth’ version of Omicron that may be harder to track Variant lacks feature that allows probable cases to be distinguished among positive PCR tests

The discovery of the new form of Omicron prompted researchers to split the B.1.1.529 lineage into standard Omicron, known as BA.1, and the newer variant, known as BA.2.

“There are two lineages within Omicron, BA.1 and BA.2, that are quite differentiated genetically,” Prof Francois Balloux, director of the University College London Genetics Institute, said. “The two lineages may behave differently.”

a reply to: MonkeyBalls2

Yeah so they are referring to a virus that causes the common cold which is an endemic coronavirus, one of the 4 previously in seasonal circulation. They are a little different though so based on what we see that served as the minor parent and the SARS-CoV-2 whichever one served as the major parent. Recombining in a cell in a host, usually they are already sick or immunocompromised.

In Africa where they are exposed much more than we are they should have better innate responses to infection. So that means a better interferon response which is antiviral and SARS-CoV-2 shouldn’t have a chance to reproduce. So it seems logical in an area with high HIV rates and low vaccination rates, you could see a recombination in a host that fits that profile. Now, it can happen in anyone but an immunocompetent host should neutralize the virus and less chance of spreading but you never know.

The real common cold virus is human rhinovirus. So we have another example of the media trying to over simplify things and just confusing people. The same or similar viruses can undergo recombination. Different ones cannot but I suppose they could undergo insertion in a complicated replication environment with multiple types of RNA in the same cell. Unless you do it in a lab and force the issue.

A scary recombination could be something like this meeting up with MERS-CoV in the same cell. SARS-CoV-2 has a way of preferring certain starting points in its genes to give it an advantage in different mammals and we aren’t even at the top of that list but we keep moving up as it gets better at infecting our cells.

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
a reply to: MonkeyBalls2

A scary recombination could be something like this meeting up with MERS-CoV in the same cell. SARS-CoV-2 has a way of preferring certain starting points in its genes to give it an advantage in different mammals and we aren’t even at the top of that list but we keep moving up as it gets better at infecting our cells.

Just out of curiosity, what animals ARE now at the top of that list?