Wuhan Coronavirus Symptoms at Onset

So there you have it. The little detail that they're not making clear on the news is that people who are already in poor health (likely with severely weakened immune systems due to age and chronic disease) are far more likely to die from something like this than a healthy 30 year old. They won't tell you this because then you wouldn't be so scared and the media and big brother state feeds on fear.

So some of these people might have been almost dead anyway.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

However, the other thing they won't tell you is that because this is a novel strain, no one has any resistance to it, so it will hit all of us with its full force. In some of us with healthy, fully functioning immune systems, this can provoke a runaway chain reaction in our bodies from our immune system that can kill us.

Sure. For most of us, it will be a nasty cold/flu-like illness, but for those who get the more severe form, it will be no laughing matter and it will take young healthy people. It may not take as many as it will older people with compromised health, but it will take them.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BrianFlanders

However, the other thing they won't tell you is that because this is a novel strain, no one has any resistance to it, so it will hit all of us with its full force. In some of us with healthy, fully functioning immune systems, this can provoke a runaway chain reaction in our bodies from our immune system that can kill us.

The cytokine storm????

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Yes.

a reply to: ketsuko

Have you heard of a way to minimize that storm?

originally posted by: Deplorable
"originally posted by: Sillyolme
The best thing is to keep information up front and current and hold back fear mongering and overreaction."

Shplain this then, please:

The Chinese quarantine a city of over 10,000,000 people ... when there are fewer than 100 deaths in that city.

The only explanation I've been able to come up with is the same one I first suspected over a month ago...

Something else is responsible for the huge number of deaths and serious cases in China.

1. Either there is a secondary factor that is affecting the chinese - someone else mentioned they use some kind of 'bio-pesticide' over there on everything, and that possibly the virus is reacting extremely badly in people who also have the pesticide in their system, or

2. something really nasty got out of that lab, but it doesn't spread like the flu, so someone came up with the brilliant idea to take advantage of a bad situation, use the CV as a cover story, and use the chaos to take out a huge number of known dissidents in HK and Taiwan, or

3. just the general horrible pollution (air, water, etc) has weakened their immune systems over there to the point they are reacting much worse than the rest of the world will.

One of those, or, there really is some kind of lengthy secondary payload with this thing, and we're in for a world of hurt in the next few months.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: ketsuko

Have you heard of a way to minimize that storm?

I just stumbled on this article about a safe and apparently very effective treatment using something called anakinra, a - from the article " cytokine-targeting therapy that was approved to treat the autoimmune disease rheumatoid arthritis".

Since this is something that deeply concerns me, as one having what I consider to be a strong immune system, I'm investigating any natural ways to do this, but no luck so far...

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
OK....we've all heard about colds and flus going around.
Some all start with a sore throat. Some with a runny nose.
I guess flus are the same....not all start with the same symptoms.

So...what are the symptoms people with the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Fever seems to be common....but when does it start?

I think this is one o fthe main factors to watch for, because the low grade fever starts pretty early, but the one thing to be look out for is, the fever never goes down/subsides, until the entire event is over.

Wish I could find the source for where I read that, but it was pretty authoritative and stuck with me.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BrianFlanders

However, the other thing they won't tell you is that because this is a novel strain, no one has any resistance to it, so it will hit all of us with its full force. In some of us with healthy, fully functioning immune systems, this can provoke a runaway chain reaction in our bodies from our immune system that can kill us.

You have a 100% chance of getting old and dying. You have maybe a 3% chance of dying from this IF you get it and you're young and healthy. I don't know. I haven't looked up the average age of those who died but I'd bet it's above 50 in the majority of cases.

This doesn't mean I don't worry about it but it seems almost like they are trying to cause chaos. Which is the last thing we need in this world today.

One of the biggest problems with this is that its symptoms mimic those of the common cold and/or a mild flu with some minimal divergence and the fact that it often seems to lead to pneumonia; that is not limited to those with additional chronic health problems, though thsuch problems will only be exacerbated by this virus.

Another issue is asymptomatic cases. There seem to be a significant number of people infected with this disease that never develop symptoms, or only very mild symptoms. They won't necessarily be a problem other than the fact that they could more easily spread it to others and start a chain of infection which would be extremely difficult to contact trace.

Early identification of 2019-nCoV infection presents a major challenge for the frontline clinicians. Its clinical symptoms largely overlap with those of common acute respiratory illnesses, including fever (98%), cough (76%), and diarrhea (3%), often more severe in older adults with pre-existing chronic comorbidities [1]. Usually, the laboratory abnormalities include lymphocytopenia and hypoxemia [1]. The initial chest radiographs may vary from minimal abnormality to bilateral ground-glass opacity or subsegmental areas of consolidation [1]. In addition, asymptomatic cases and lack of diagnosis kits result in delayed or even missed diagnosis inevitable and makes many other patients, visitors, and healthcare workers exposed to the 2019-nCoV infection.

The R0, is estimated to be between 2.2 and may be as high as 4.0; in other words each infected person will go on to infect 2 to 4 additional people. There are multiple vectors by which this virus can enter a person's system, and it also seems as though viral shedding continues for close to a month after initial infection:

The basic reproductive number was estimated to be 2.2 (95% CI, 1.4 to 3.9) [3], or as high as between 3.6 and 4.0 [4]. The 2019-nCoV is proved to be transmitted by respiratory droplets, contact, and fecal-oral, even transmission through the eye is possible [5, 6]. The higher viral load and aerosol-generating procedures, such as non-invasive ventilation, magnify the exposure and transmission risk [2, 7, 8]. Moreover, virus shedding can be prolonged and last for > 3 weeks according to some literature and our unpublished data [2].

Critical care response to a hospital outbreak of the 2019-nCoV infection in Shenzhen, China

As ketsuko has mentioned numerous times in the update threads on this topic, it is not necessarily the fatality rate which will cause problems. The main problem we will face is that since this is a novel virus for which we do not have any herd immunity to, it will blaze though populations in an extremely short amount of time and, if a significant portion of those infected are critically ill, it will place an undue burden upon any nation's healthcare system.

You have to remember that on top of what this virus will do, people will still be getting sick/injured from all the things that they are sick and injured by now and that the amount of available beds in hospitals won't be anywhere close to sufficient to deal with a sudden influx of patients.

Not to mention what having that many people sick at once will do to our infrastructure.

Personally I imbibe 2 drops liquid vitamin d3... 2 drops liquid vitamin C/rose hip tea.... 2 drops Oregano Oil …. with a Liposomal carrier....and 2 drops sublingually applied MJ Tincture.....4 days on 4 days off....along with a nutrient and mineral rich processed sugar free diet.... no worries.Regular Carpet-bombing of the body.

Onset is a nebulous term. The onset of the disease is different than the onset of symptoms. The first time symptoms appear is not when the illness begins, it is when the body begins losing the fight against it.

The problem is that the first noticeable symptoms seem to be any of a varied group of possibilities. Worse yet, infected people are contagious prior to presenting symptoms. Fever is not always present when symptoms begin to appear.

I was hospitalized with sepsis once several years ago. It was one of the newer super bugs at the time. I was inpatient for nearly a week. Only once through the entire ordeal did I present with a fever - a whopping 99.7 degrees. If temperature were the main criteria by which my condition was evaluated the sepsis would almost surely have been missed. I have to believe grading temperature is too fallible to be the primary diagnostic tool in this outbreak.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

It’s random, unless you interfere with the signaling process somewhere, like an unholy lottery. Here are some statistics and numbers from mid Feb showing those odds, we should be doubling at this point every week or so.

The Epidemiological Characteristics of an Outbreak of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases (COVID-19) — China, 2020

A total of 72,314 unique records were extracted and data from all records were included in the analysis. Thus, all 72,314 individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 as of February 11, 2020, were included in the analysis. Among them, 44,672 cases (61.8%) were confirmed, 16,186 cases (22.4%) were suspected, 10,567 cases (14.6%) were clinically diagnosed, and 889 cases (1.2%) were asymptomatic.

Asymptomatic is interesting, naturally immune, genetic advantage, young age, who knows. This happens with the flu too, some people when exposed to one virus from a family of viruses develop this immunity that allows their antibodies to be able to hit viruses from that entire line. It’s actually being researched as a vaccine target, the Netflix show Pandemic touches on it a bit.

Baseline characteristics of confirmed cases (n=44,672) are presented in Table 1. A majority were aged 30–69 years (77.8%), male (51.4%), farmers or laborers (22.0%), and diagnosed in Hubei Province (74.7%). Most patients reported Wuhan-related exposures (85.8%) and were classified as mild cases (80.9%).

80.9% mild as in seasonal cold and maybe bronchial or painful chest mucous. 13.8% severe, this means pneumonia, shortness of breath at rest and medication. 4.7% critical, this includes septic shock (cytokine storm) and organ failure etc., one could happen or both could happen. I would not want to have heart failure, kidney, liver, uncontrolled diabetes or COPD/Asthma issues with this illness. Not to scare people, just to help prepare.

The severity of symptoms variable was categorized as mild, severe, or critical. Mild included non-pneumonia and mild pneumonia cases. Severe was characterized by dyspnea, respiratory frequency ≥30/minute, blood oxygen saturation ≤93%, PaO2/FiO2 ratio 50% within 24–48 hours. Critical cases were those that exhibited respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure.

They don’t touch on it but critical will have a oxygen saturation dropping into 70-80%, maybe lower without positive pressure or direct airway management on 100% oxygen. A COPD patient is different, their baseline is low 90s and too much oxygen too quickly could be dangerous for them and quickly cause complications, it will mess with their natural breathing cycle and pH because they’re used to getting less oxygen. Something that could be missed in a pandemic.

As shown in Table 1, a total of 1,023 deaths have occurred among 44,672 confirmed cases for an overall case fatality rate of 2.3%. Additionally, these 1,023 deaths occurred during 661,609 PD of observed time, for a mortality rate of 0.015/10 PD.

Way higher than the flu, not as bad as the original H1N1 (Spanish Flu), this will be worse in non western nations.

The ≥80 age group had the highest case fatality rate of all age groups at 14.8%. Case fatality rate for males was 2.8% and for females was 1.7%. By occupation, patients who reported being retirees had the highest case fatality rate at 5.1%, and patients in Hubei Province had a >7-fold higher case fatality rate at 2.9% compared to patients in other provinces (0.4%). While patients who reported no comorbid conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%, patients with comorbid conditions had much higher rates—10.5% for those with cardiovascular disease, 7.3% for diabetes, 6.3% for chronic respiratory disease, 6.0% for hypertension, and 5.6% for cancer. Case fatality rate was also very high for cases categorized as critical at 49.0%.

Other death rates are 0-9 (0), 10-39 (.2%), 40-49 (.4%), 50-59 (1.9%), 60-69 (3.6%), 70-79 (8%).

In light of this rapid spread, it is fortunate that COVID-19 has been mild for 81% of patients and has a very low overall case fatality rate of 2.3%. Among the 1,023 deaths, a majority have been ≥60 years of age and/or have had pre-existing, comorbid conditions such as hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes. Moreover, the case fatality rate is unsurprisingly highest among critical cases at 49%, and no deaths have occurred among those with mild or even severe symptoms (Table 1).

Another important number is a death rate of 2.9% in Hubei where they are seeing pandemic/epidemic impact levels because they are overloaded. The death rate in non overloaded provinces in .4%.

The healthcare, economic, public health and general societal impact of this illness will be world changing if we see sustained spread in western nations. I’m not worried about the disease, I’m worried about how society is going to handle the after effects of this disease.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
"originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
Have you heard of a way to minimize that [cytokine) storm?"

I just stumbled on this article about a safe and apparently very effective treatment using something called anakinra, a - from the article " cytokine-targeting therapy that was approved to treat the autoimmune disease rheumatoid arthritis".

Some quick googling reveals you can buy this stuff online, but it isn't cheap... and apparently must be given intravenously, so not sure if you could even request it as an alternative treatment.

Personally, if I have to go to a doctor, I'll just get a series of IV Vitamin C treatments instead - much cheaper, and is at least known to be effective at regular pneumonia/flu etc...

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
You have a 100% chance of getting old and dying. You have maybe a 3% chance of dying from this IF you get it and you're young and healthy. I don't know. I haven't looked up the average age of those who died but I'd bet it's above 50 in the majority of cases.

Actually, if you do the math (no idea what the actual equation is), it is much lower than 3%. 3% is the overall. When you factor in age/health status, the risk to a younger healthy - assuming that there is no secondary payload that causes a cytokine storm (apparently some evidence there could be some cases of this at least) - is much lower than 3%.

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
I’m not worried about the disease, I’m worried about how society is going to handle the after effects of this disease.

Yeah, that, and what some governments might do (ours included) to 'not let a crisis go to waste'...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Worse yet, infected people are contagious prior to presenting symptoms. Fever is not always present when symptoms begin to appear.

I know there have been rumors of this being true, but I have yet to see any declaration by the WHO or anyone else that is a proven fact - just like the questions about incubation periods.

Has this changed?

I was hospitalized with sepsis once several years ago. It was one of the newer super bugs at the time. I was inpatient for nearly a week. Only once through the entire ordeal did I present with a fever - a whopping 99.7 degrees. If temperature were the main criteria by which my condition was evaluated the sepsis would almost surely have been missed. I have to believe grading temperature is too fallible to be the primary diagnostic tool in this outbreak.

But this isn't sepsis. What I read was pretty certain about the fact that the fever never subsided once it was evident.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Not really.

This suggests there is a genetic component. As many as 15% may be at risk for it, and it's sort of like sickle cell where you carry one copy of a gene. It has to do with something called perforin according to this.

They say that there is a rheumatoid arthritis drug that can be used if it's recognized what's going on. It seems to have some effectiveness in treating a cytokine storm, but the key is that it has to be known what's going on. Something called anakinra?

A cheap, simple test, widely available at most hospitals in the United States and worldwide, can help diagnose cytokine storm syndrome, Cron said. “A protein called serum ferritin tends to get very high in this disorder,” he said. “If you are sick enough to be in a hospital and you have a fever, you should get a serum ferritin. It typically comes back in less than 24 hours and almost every hospital can do it, and if it’s high you can work them up for cytokine storm syndrome.”

That's what this research doc recommends.

a reply to: tanstaafl

I hope not, I like to believe we stand for the greater good in our mission. Maybe this could push us to something greater, maybe even something unexpected. We just have so many contingency plans that are built into policy and could be abused.

I’ll be one of the first to get this vaccine so that could be fun. We do always joke about bring microchipped in the military lol, we just don’t know it.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
So...what are the symptoms people with the Wuhan Coronavirus?

According to my Doctor's office, the symptoms are:

Fever

Cough

Trouble Breathing

Don't know if anyone else posted it.