Second Amendment supporters are pushing back

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: chr0naut
Lol
Communist citizens are
The governments not so much

Haven't you seen those crazy Russian gun nuts like FPS Russia on YouTube?

Fake Russian gun nut.

Kyle Lamar Myers, an American born in Mason, Georgia, playing the role of Dmitri Potapoff, a heavily accented Russian from Moscow. FPS Russia

Dude got in a lot of trouble with the law. But in the end his youtube channel was a comedy channel.

The proper framing is "why are these fringe left wing groups trying to infringe on our rights as enumerated in the Bill of Rights"

Our rights already exist, including the unalienable RKBA. The default position is our position. The impetus to infringe on those rights is coming from the left, and we get nothing but illogical culture-war based arguments from biased individuals who can't articulate valid reasons based on something other than emotions.

The summary is: the fringe anti-gunners among the left want to infringe on the Constitution because they are unable to control their emotions/feelings and are terrified by everything the media/talking points instructs them to fear.

For instance, until these groups tackle & solve real causes of death like drunk driving, smoking cigarettes or gang violence (none of which are in the Bill of Rights - the immutable first ten amendments) this isn't even a valid discussion. Until they can properly explain how Citizens will continue to protect themselves from heavily armed criminals/mobs/gangs/etc we shouldn't even be willing to hear their more modest proposals as they will always lead us down the slippery slope of the Hegelian dialectic AKA "problem-reaction->solution"

a reply to: chr0naut

Russia is not a communist country, haven't been for almost 30 years.

And he isn't a "gun nut" the weapons were demos made by a lawful NFA dealer. There is no such thing as a gun nut, there are violent criminals who break the law and then there are the rest of us who own legal guns period.

Us vs. others, no comparison. The others are the ones I worry most about since they are the violent criminals who will be committing the violence whereas we are the ones who will be forced to use a firearm to defend ourselves from their vicious and heinous attacks.

a reply to: abigredneck

Mandatory? That's not a bad idea. Many might discover that guns are just tools. Neither good nor evil in and of themselves.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Not to mention what our parents would have done...

I'm well into my 50's, and the thought of my angry mother still sends chills down my spine...

I never once contemplated "playing" with the guns in the closet at home. Or the two revolvers in the night stands on either side of my parents bed.

The consequences simply didn't bear thinking on... Suffice it to say, they'd have been bad.

a reply to: BlueJacket



APPLAUSE


Tell her good luck with the falconry apprenticeship. There are far too few of 'em, and they're needed to help protect falcons and other predatory birds.

originally posted by: seagull
Of course training is the most important aspect of gun ownership/usage.

With training you learn to respect the tool, not fear it.

I was brought up with guns of all sorts. From .22's to fully automatic machine guns. I fear none of them. It's the person behind the gun that one should fear/respect.

Ain't that the damn truth. I've hung out with some of the shadiest people and seen them never point a gun at someone they didn't intend to shoot. I've also hung out with some gun pros and lost a little bit of respect for them when they flashed me.

Training is important and respect goes a looooong way.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

The crowd I hung with, before moving to Alabama, was as odd a bunch as you'll ever run across...

former flower children, not so former flower children, WWII vets, Korean war vets, Vietnam war vets, police officers, both retired and not, retired Rhodesian mercs, and then little ol' me.

Our common ground? Love of things that go bang, and reaching out and making holes in paper from several hundred yards out. Or further.

Never once, in all the time I spent there with 'em did anyone play around like you mention. Unthinkable. Me, because of a lifetime of training at home Guns are always loaded, even when they're not!!!

Them, for the same reason, and they'd all, mostly, been where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Guns were/are fun! However, guns are not toys. Ever.

Amazing that people aren't taught that--at least to me.

a reply to: seagull

Actually never feared anything in particular... but my dad did have a vibe that even my friends were wary of so we just had that feeling not to push him to far or he would bury us in a gator hole.

never raised a hand to me, but I absolutely respected him... mom was a past master of guilt trips.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: chr0naut

Russia is not a communist country, haven't been for almost 30 years.

Quite right, they are now a Presidential Federation.

And he isn't a "gun nut" the weapons were demos made by a lawful NFA dealer. There is no such thing as a gun nut, there are violent criminals who break the law and then there are the rest of us who own legal guns period.

Us vs. others, no comparison. The others are the ones I worry most about since they are the violent criminals who will be committing the violence whereas we are the ones who will be forced to use a firearm to defend ourselves from their vicious and heinous attacks.

The figures say that the vast majority of shootings in the US are citizen vs citizen.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: chr0naut

Russia is not a communist country, haven't been for almost 30 years.

Quite right, they are now a Presidential Federation.

And he isn't a "gun nut" the weapons were demos made by a lawful NFA dealer. There is no such thing as a gun nut, there are violent criminals who break the law and then there are the rest of us who own legal guns period.

Us vs. others, no comparison. The others are the ones I worry most about since they are the violent criminals who will be committing the violence whereas we are the ones who will be forced to use a firearm to defend ourselves from their vicious and heinous attacks.

The figures say that the vast majority of shootings in the US are citizen vs citizen.

It's relevent to include what % of the gun owning population use them on someone else.

"Assuming the searc is for the percentage of law abiding American gun owners, approximately 1 in44,275 over their lifetime.Approximately 0.0000225861 decimal percent. Put another way, if only law abiding gun owners committed murder, the murder rate would be 0.68 per 100,000 population."
extranosalley.com...

originally posted by: BlueJacket

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: chr0naut

Russia is not a communist country, haven't been for almost 30 years.

Quite right, they are now a Presidential Federation.

And he isn't a "gun nut" the weapons were demos made by a lawful NFA dealer. There is no such thing as a gun nut, there are violent criminals who break the law and then there are the rest of us who own legal guns period.

Us vs. others, no comparison. The others are the ones I worry most about since they are the violent criminals who will be committing the violence whereas we are the ones who will be forced to use a firearm to defend ourselves from their vicious and heinous attacks.

The figures say that the vast majority of shootings in the US are citizen vs citizen.

It's relevent to include what % of the gun owning population use them on someone else.

"Assuming the searc is for the percentage of law abiding American gun owners, approximately 1 in44,275 over their lifetime.Approximately 0.0000225861 decimal percent. Put another way, if only law abiding gun owners committed murder, the murder rate would be 0.68 per 100,000 population."
extranosalley.com...

You seem to have forgotten that the issue was the comparison between the number of citizens who shot citizens and the number of illegals who shot citizens.

The unarmed and law-abiding are irrelevant in that comparison.

By far, more citizens shot citizens. 77% of white gun deaths are suicide. That's a citizen shooting a citizen as far as I'm concerned.

Gun Culture in Black and White - National Review

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: AutomateThis1

The crowd I hung with, before moving to Alabama, was as odd a bunch as you'll ever run across...

former flower children, not so former flower children, WWII vets, Korean war vets, Vietnam war vets, police officers, both retired and not, retired Rhodesian mercs, and then little ol' me.

Our common ground? Love of things that go bang, and reaching out and making holes in paper from several hundred yards out. Or further.

Never once, in all the time I spent there with 'em did anyone play around like you mention. Unthinkable. Me, because of a lifetime of training at home Guns are always loaded, even when they're not!!!

Them, for the same reason, and they'd all, mostly, been where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Guns were/are fun! However, guns are not toys. Ever.

Amazing that people aren't taught that--at least to me.

I didn't say anyone played around with guns.

originally posted by: chr0naut]
The figures say that the vast majority of shootings in the US are citizen vs citizen.

Actually we don’t know what the figures say; there are no national figures. Only one state, (Texas), keeps track of immigrant versus non-immigrant violence.

a reply to: RedmoonMWC


U.S. Gun Owners are Autonomous of the N.R.A. . They Do Not Need Any Organization to Allegedly Help them Defend their Second Amendment Rights .......

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

But they are free to join it if they want. Right of peaceable assembly

originally posted by: Graysen

originally posted by: chr0naut]
The figures say that the vast majority of shootings in the US are citizen vs citizen.

Actually we don’t know how to figure say; there are no national figures. Only one state, (Texas), keeps track of immigrant versus non-immigrant violence.

ICE are a federal agency. They report statistics that are very specific.

ICE Statistics

The FBI are a federal agency, too. They report statistics too, which overlap with ICE's statistics. It is possible to do a simple subtraction and get national statistical comparisons.

Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program - FBI (I would recommend downloading the Excel files as it is easier to make direct comparisons).

But, here's a report based upon those Texan statistics:

Criminal Immigrants in Texas: Illegal Immigrant Conviction and Arrest Rates for Homicide, Sex Crimes, Larceny, and Other Crimes - Cato Institute.

originally posted by: Graysen
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

But they are free to join it if they want. Right of peaceable assembly

I Think That Would Depend on their Politics ........

a reply to: chr0naut

UCr isNotorious for not accurately or uniformly tracking ethnic group or legal status. UCR routinely counts Hispanic as white for perpetrators of crime, and their separate category as victims. The explanation of the footnotes is there depends on the jurisdiction reporting. UCR is hardly uniform across states that have different categories of crime. For instance Texas does not have Degrees of murder. And I think Louisiana counts some categories as property crimes that would be considered a violent crime in other states.

originally posted by: Graysen
a reply to: chr0naut

UCr isNotorious for not accurately or uniformly tracking ethnic group or legal status. UCR routinely counts Hispanic as white for perpetrators of crime, and their separate category as victims. The explanation of the footnotes is there depends on the jurisdiction reporting. UCR is hardly uniform across states that have different categories of crime. For instance Texas does not have Degrees of murder. And I think Louisiana counts some categories as property crimes that would be considered a violent crime in other states.

Probably, the FBI's UCR program is attempting to not be racist. I mean, a criminal is a criminal regardless of their race, so why would you separate them on racial grounds - unless you had a racist agenda.

Surely a Canadian caucasian who is an illegal immigrant and commits a crime is just as criminal an illegal immigrant as another criminal illegal immigrant. My point is that there is more crime 'American citizen to American citizen', ratio wise. All the studies show that.