Is there a "right" was to tell a LEO that you're armed?

a reply to: Boadicea

That's what our society gets for criminalizing every single form of behavior - obviously criminal or not!

I personally would never volunteer that information, remember anything you say or do will be used against you in legal proceedings initiated by the State. Never make it easier for them to skirt those very critical protections.

Especially if the contact is voluntary or casual, which if they are half way intelligent will be the case always

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Beat them to the punch. First ask them if they are armed. If so, ask them if they would put their weapons in the trunk of their car for your safety. If they refuse, they can hardly begrudge you for holding on to your weapon during your interaction.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Boadicea

That's what our society gets for criminalizing every single form of behavior - obviously criminal or not!

I agree. But in this case, it's not even society. It's the LEOs who think an armed citizen is automatically a threat to their life, and the Supreme Court (Tennessee v Gardner) that gave them the legal authority to kill someone based solely on the LEO's fear that his/her life might be in danger. This is ridiculous.

I personally would never volunteer that information, remember anything you say or do will be used against you in legal proceedings initiated by the State. Never make it easier for them to skirt those very critical protections.

It's a catch-22. If the information is withheld, then suspicion is raised... "Why did you hide it? What were you planning to do with that gun? What have you already done with that gun? Why wouldn't you tell us if you have nothing to hide? Oh, you don't want to talk to us without a lawyer? Why do you need a lawyer?"

I'm not saying it's right. Just saying that's where we're at.

Hence why I think there should be specific known protocols for both LEOs and armed civilians, so that no one is put into a no-win situation.

a reply to: Boadicea

Tennessee v Garner is actually about the fleeing felon rule and whether it’s reasonable to stop a fleeing person with deadly force. Graham v Connor is the case law relevant to objective reasonableness in uses of force, period.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Well gosh darn me... you're right. Thank you for the gentle correction.

The saddest part is that I actually know that and for some reason I never seem to remember.

Graham v Connor...Graham v Connor...Graham v Connor...Graham v Connor...Graham v Connor...

Maybe now I'll remember!

a reply to: Boadicea

No problem. Right ballpark, wrong base, so to speak.

I just always keep a box of krispie kremes in the car, that usually disarms any law enforcement goons.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: AaarghZombies

If you’re carrying concealed, knowing the state law regarding concealed carry is a) generally helpful in knowing when to disclose and b) makes you a more responsible gun owner.

Exactly right and if you're required to disclose, you disclose.

I've been in a vehicle that was pulled over twice in the last twenty years here in Alaska and both times just told the officer there were guns in the vehicle and ammo in a locked box in the back. They did not even react and just went on with what they were saying. Of course I'm in Alaska and they did away with gun laws some time ago. Anyone can concealed carry anytime they wish.

I've been pulled over once in California. Of course that was a long time ago, maybe 1980 I think. I needed to transport a revolver so I asked a local and they told me to just lock the ammo in the trunk and have the weapon in plain sight on the seat disassembled. Got pulled over for a taillight. Told the officer it was on the seat and ammo in the trunk and he just told me to fix the light and drove off. Probably not like that there anymore.

Idaho, in the 70s nobody gave a damn. I'd just tell the officer I had a gun in the door of the truck or it would be in plain sight.

I never got tickets or had issues. I always was respectful to the officers and honest and they always let me drive off with a verbal warning. Cops are great if they sense you're not a problem. The loaded guns in my truck were not legal in Idaho, but they overlooked it. We all had a rifle in the window on a rack most of the time anyway. Nobody cared.

I think the key is, if you have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Cops don't give someone grief for no reason. Those who have issues with them deserve it nearly always. Be smart and tell them you have a gun and that's always the correct answer. Not telling them is dumb as hell.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
...you should say "Just to inform you officer I am legally carrying a firearm ghost gun with the 100 round clipazine".

Better.

Ya'll have been peekin' in my go bag. Although it's more cylindrical than the typical ghost gun.

ganjoa

a reply to: AaarghZombies

when i got pulled over in montana a few years ago i had my 37mm launcher and my 45 in the car ,when he came up to the window and pet my dog lol i told him i had what would look like a grenade launcher on the floor and a 45 in the console and asked him how he would like to proceed for his safety

he laughed kept petting my dog and asked me SLOWLY to hand him the 45 (two fingers on the grip pointing downward ) and i did,got my ticket then got my gun back and he went on his way and i went on mine after he checked out the launcher . he laughed cuz he had never had any one say yeah well i kind of have what looks like a frigging grenade launcher before but no threats no real change in posture but i also had my old bounty hunting badge on a chain hanging from the mirror so that may have been a factor .

as far as walking around ive never had to deal with a cop asking me if im carrying so not much help to ya on that front

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

I hear being White really helps in that situation.

And if you are not white;

Drop to your knees with your hands raised above your head, advise the officer(s) that there is a firearm present (Don’t say that you Are armed, unless you want to die right on the spot!).

If you are still alive, maybe able to speak after having been tased (likely, repeatedly!), explain that you are licensed to carry, a copy of your license is tattooed on your butt cheek and another copy filed in a safety deposit box.

Then, with tears in your eyes, earnestly beg the popo not to shoot you.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Do not unless asked for it attempt to remove and hand to the officer. You may ask if he would like to have possession for the duration of the stop.

I have seen this approach talked about before and it does not make any sense at all.

So you are legally carrying but at any time the Police can force you to hand it over. That does not sound very 2nd Amendment to me.

You have it to defend yourself ... against them it seems ... so why do you want to give it up.

Every time these threads come up all I think about is cases such as the 12 year old boy murdered because the Cops were 'afraid'.

P

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

when i got pulled over in montana a few years ago i had my 37mm launcher and my 45 in the car ,when he came up to the window and pet my dog lol i told him i had what would look like a grenade launcher on the floor and a 45 in the console and asked him how he would like to proceed for his safety

The last 10-20 years in Montana we just put whatever handgun we have that day on the dash.

Sometimes they will ask to see it... mostly not.

But it's an open carry state, concealed carry with no license out of city limits, so that probably helps.

And at " I have what looks like a grenade launcher on the floor"...

Not a normal day for him!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: AaarghZombies

Never volunteer information to anyone about anything.

That reply increases your chances of hanging out with Elvis .

A cop could just get a glance at your firearm. Then he’s automatically pulling his while he’s backing up. You could die of something as stupid as an accidental discharge .

What you should do is make sure your hands are in clear view . Don’t reach for your wallet don’t reach for your cellphone and especially don’t reach for your weapon. Even if you plan on giving it to him .

Then tell him “officer I’m a concealed weapon carrier” and wait for him to tell you what to do .

Why run the risk of getting shot ?

You can always complain about your rights later .

“ bullets don’t care about your rights”

a reply to: AaarghZombies
I always keep my hands on the wheel and tell them immediately when they approach my window that I am legally carrying. Normally they get ask if I want to put it on the passenger seat which I do and turn over my driver information along with my card. Never had an issue.

a reply to: pheonix358

It falls under “cop feels safer holding your gun than to let you hold it” situation. Thing of it is. 90% of the time they won’t feel safer because they now have to juggle your gun along with everything else. And who is to say you are not carrying two or three guns and they now have their hands full.

Can’t just quickly use your gun against you because it my be unloaded, unchambered, odd safety or just general unfamiliarity with your odd gun. 1911 is common enough but the gun must be chambered and hammer back to fire. Assuming there is even a working firing pin. A jammed up barrel is bad too.

Whole lot of reasons for the officer to not use you gun. And even more not to touch your gun in the first place. Non functioning safety, hair trigger, could have been used in a murder and now is tainting evidence with his prints and DNA.

Best reason of all, it takes more time to draw and aim than to just aim. You keeping it buys him a little more time if things are going to go bad. Even more if you are seated.

a reply to: Fallingdown

Yeah, okay. Once again, never volunteer anything to anyone.

In Indiana....you don't offer the information but you don't deny it if asked. Never heard any form of law enforcement say different. In fact, one said that if they wanted you to disclose...they would make it the law. It just complicates what would have been a smooth interaction.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

My advice increases someone’s chances of living .

Your advice increases someone’s chances of dying .

Pick whichever one you choose .

I read these kinds of threads with great interest.

As a firearms instructor, I can tell you...there is no single one right answer to the question posed in the OP!

The right answer for the situation will always depend on the situation. And, I would certainly hope that anyone legally carrying a firearm, for whatever reason, is able to adjust their behavior (instantly) to a changing situation. Equally, I would expect that anyone carrying a firearm is able to assess (read) a situation very quickly at all times. If not, that person should not be carrying a firearm. Period.

You're going to deal with a juiced up cop who's bent on exerting his authority much differently than you're going to deal with a peace officer who's just trying to do his job. It also depends very much on why you are interacting with the officer to begin with. If you just came skidding around a corner, laying rubber, narrowly missing an old lady in a crosswalk with cops swarming all over the place following a bank robbery, you might want to consider acting a little differently than if an LEO just walks up to you on the street to ask you a couple innocent questions. If you suddenly get pulled over by 5 cop cars in a case of mistaken identity, you might want to consider behaving a little differently than if getting pulled over by the local sheriff for speeding 5mph over on a country road.

As a general rule, I don't agree with volunteering that you are armed unless the situation looks like it is warranted. What does this mean? Well, it means several things. First, don't do stupid stuff. If you get pulled over, get your license (or minimally you wallet out) before the LEO gets to your car and asks for it. Ideally have your license, registration and proof of insurance in hand when he walks up. No need to provide a CCW card. If the situation deteriorates to the point where it looks like you or your vehicle may be searched (legally or otherwise), that would be a good time to notify an officer you are armed. This is the least surprising way (to the officer) to communicate this information because it is a natural flow of the conversation at that moment. In other words, it is the logical time to make such a disclosure (logical to him, and logical to you).

Now, let's look at another angle. Let's say an LEO stops you and asks you if you're armed. In this case you have a lawful duty to answer the question. You don't have to elaborate, a simple yes or no will do. If this is followed by a bunch of other questions about why, etc., then your best course is to just say because you choose to be. Anything else should be responded to with a question of if you are being detained or under arrest. They'll get the idea.

Oh, and if an officer ever asks you to produce your firearm, it is best to say you're not comfortable with doing this. Reaching for a firearm in the presence of an LEO is always a bad idea! If it comes to it, and they wish to see it or touch it, let them do it. Tell them where it is, so you're not hiding anything, and let them proceed accordingly.

The bottom line is this; a firearm is just a tool. It shouldn't cause you to act any differently than you would normally. If it does you need to reevaluate your reason for carrying. For example, if you got pulled over, would you feel compelled to tell the officer you had a tire iron in the trunk? Or a screwdriver in your glove box? Or a knife in your pocket? No, you wouldn't, so why act differently with a firearm? Imagine if a stranger walked up to you on the street and said, out of the blue..."I just wanted to let you know I'm armed." Would that seem weird to you? Of course it would! That's the same effect you have on an LEO by volunteering for no reason that you're armed.