Student Loan Debt The Truth

a reply to: schuyler

You said parents "allowing" this to happen,

Lot of stupid parents out there allowing this to happen, too.

as if parents can prevent or dictate what degrees their children choose. Parents can't, unless there's some form of coercion involved. That was the point.

And students should be welcome to pursue that which is the ultimate interest to them, since that is the entire point of education and personal discovery, rather than what they feel "obligated" or forced to pursue.

Not all college age kids are completely emancipated and loans are not their only source of income. Loans are a PART of a student financial aid package that includes parents' contributions.

Some kids don't have parental contributions because the parents can't afford it. Some kids rely on HOPE (if they have the grades), low income assistance if they qualify, but working X number of jobs won't pay for tuition. Hence loans (especially with higher education), which come with conditions and interest and which are shackling.

a reply to: Edumakated

I've decided that we won't require them to go to college unless they show an aptitude for it.

Their decision, not yours.

If I took the $200k my kid will have for school and just keep it invested instead, when he is 48 years old he will have around $1.5 million for retirement.[...]
Think about it. Would you rather have $1.5 million in the bank at 48 years old OR to say you graduated from XYZ college with some bullsh*t degree?

Is that for you to decide for your child? Sounds like extortion. Ask he or she.

Do you want your "kid' to have his or her own life, or what you think it should be?

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated

I've decided that we won't require them to go to college unless they show an aptitude for it.

Their decision, not yours.

Think about it. Would you rather have $1.5 million in the bank at 48 years old OR to say you graduated from XYZ college with some bullsh*t degree?

Is that for you to decide for your child? Sounds like extortion. Ask he or she.

Do you want your "kid' to have his or her own life, or what you think it should be?

If I am paying for it, I have a say in the matter... Hopefully, my kid will be able to do the math. I am 46 years old. I'd much rather have $1.5 million in the bank than my two degrees.

Look, you can't on one hand say the kids can make all the decisions on their own and then cry about them not being responsible when it is time to pay the piper. You can't be half pregnant. They are either an adult making adult decisions or they aren't.

I have no problem with a kid that wants to study Lesbian Art Theory. However, the reality is they can study that in their free time for free. You don't need to go to college to do that... They also need to understand that the job market for Lesbian Art Theory majors is not very robust, so they may have a hard time paying back any loans upon graduation.

If they really want to study Lesbian Art Theory, then maybe they should go to a much cheaper school. Harvard ain't necessary for a soft major like that and it most certainly ain't worth taking on a small mortgage.

a reply to: Edumakated

If I am paying for it, I have a say in the matter... Hopefully, my kid will be able to do the math. I am 46 years old. I'd much rather have $1.5 million in the bank than my two degrees.

So you would condition your child's education on what you feel is best? That's my point about extortion. What you would want at 46 is irrelevant to what your child might want at 46 or what he/she wants for his/her future, and it's not up to you to withhold or condition that.

I have no problem with a kid that wants to study Lesbian Art Theory. However, the reality is they can study that in their free time for free. You don't need to go to college to do that...

Anyone can study anything for free. Books abound.

Hence the cost of college and working toward a degree.

If they really want to study Lesbian Art Theory, then maybe they should go to a much cheaper school. Harvard ain't necessary for a soft major like that and it most certainly ain't worth taking on a small mortgage.

But if that's what they want...Their life.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated

If I am paying for it, I have a say in the matter... Hopefully, my kid will be able to do the math. I am 46 years old. I'd much rather have $1.5 million in the bank than my two degrees.

So you would condition your child's education on what you feel is best? That's my point about extortion. What you would want at 46 is irrelevant to what your child might want at 46 or what he/she wants for his/her future, and it's not up to you to withhold or condition that.

I have no problem with a kid that wants to study Lesbian Art Theory. However, the reality is they can study that in their free time for free. You don't need to go to college to do that...

Anyone can study anything for free. Books abound.

Hence the cost of college and working toward a degree.

If they really want to study Lesbian Art Theory, then maybe they should go to a much cheaper school. Harvard ain't necessary for a soft major like that and it most certainly ain't worth taking on a small mortgage.

But if that's what they want...Their life.

One question for you two. Is higher education for the potential of a better income or is it for personal exploration with self fulfillment the end goal?

a reply to: Liquesence

From my perspective, this attitude is EXACTLY the cause of this crisis. Parents that shirk their DUTY to raise their children to think rationally about finance and not with their "feelz". If they wish to pursue some wack-a-doodle degree, why should a parent pay for something that will assure them a failed future?

Being a real parent means thinking and recommending the best for their children. And then explaining the downsides of those types of decisions and the long-term consequences of a bad decision. If they still elect to make that decision, then they need to know they will be doing so on their own dime. That is reality. As a parent, sometimes tough love is the best approach. Basing every decision on "feelz" creates a person that fails to make the good decisions, then fails to live up to the consequences of those poor decisions.

Take six years to get a four year degree in something useless...

That's the main problem with college loan debt.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: Liquesence

From my perspective, this attitude is EXACTLy the cuase of this crisis. Parents that shirk their DUTY to raise their children to think rationally about finance and not with their "feelz". If they wish to pursue some wack-a-doodle degree, why should a parent pay for something the will assure them a failed future?

Being a real parent means thinking and recommending the best for their children. And then explaining the downsides of those types of decisions and the long-term consequences of a bad decision. If they still elect to make that decision, then they need to know they will be doing so on their own dime. That is reality. As a parent, sometime tough love is the best approach. Basing every decision on "feelz" creates a person that fails to make the good decisions, then fails to live up to the consequences of those poor decisions.

Thanks. Exactly what I was going to say. No need for to respond at this point.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated

If I am paying for it, I have a say in the matter... Hopefully, my kid will be able to do the math. I am 46 years old. I'd much rather have $1.5 million in the bank than my two degrees.

So you would condition your child's education on what you feel is best? That's my point about extortion. What you would want at 46 is irrelevant to what your child might want at 46 or what he/she wants for his/her future, and it's not up to you to withhold or condition that.

I have no problem with a kid that wants to study Lesbian Art Theory. However, the reality is they can study that in their free time for free. You don't need to go to college to do that...

Anyone can study anything for free. Books abound.

Hence the cost of college and working toward a degree.

If they really want to study Lesbian Art Theory, then maybe they should go to a much cheaper school. Harvard ain't necessary for a soft major like that and it most certainly ain't worth taking on a small mortgage.

But if that's what they want...Their life.

One question for you two. Is higher education for the potential of a better income or is it for personal exploration with self fulfillment the end goal?

I went to college specifically for job potential / income growth. Nothing more. Majored in business.

Like I said, you can study all that soft sh*t on your own. No need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to read a history book. Just go to a public library.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: Liquesence

From my perspective, this attitude is EXACTLy the cuase of this crisis. Parents that shirk their DUTY to raise their children to think rationally about finance and not with their "feelz". If they wish to pursue some wack-a-doodle degree, why should a parent pay for something the will assure them a failed future?

Being a real parent means thinking and recommending the best for their children. And then explaining the downsides of those types of decisions and the long-term consequences of a bad decision. If they still elect to make that decision, then they need to know they will be doing so on their own dime. That is reality. As a parent, sometime tough love is the best approach. Basing every decision on "feelz" creates a person that fails to make the good decisions, then fails to live up to the consequences of those poor decisions.

Thanks. Exactly what I was going to say. No need for to respond at this point.

When I went, my parents couldn't afford to pay for me. But what they could do was to educate me on the loans and help with filling out the massive list of grant and scholarship applications. They also taught me how the interest worked and worked through the calculations with me to SHOW me the final cost of that education. They taught me what being an adult meant. I met so many "big children" in college that took advantage of their parents kindness and openly mocked them for being so stupid. Frankly, it was disgusting to hear....and I on more than one occasion called them out on it too.

Eventually a few of them began coming to me for financial advice and realized how much $$$ was involved that they were stealing from their parents. Some actually began to take it more seriously, but not all.

That is TRUTH.

Not FEELZ.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated



One question for you two. Is higher education for the potential of a better income or is it for personal exploration with self fulfillment the end goal?

I went to college specifically for job potential / income growth. Nothing more. Majored in business.

Like I said, you can study all that soft sh*t on your own. No need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to read a history book. Just go to a public library.

I didn't make it that far dropped out, went into manufacturing HAVC as a grunt working on the line. Ended up in QA for 35 years. Talking about soft stuff we had students in the day that had become professional students never getting a degree.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated



One question for you two. Is higher education for the potential of a better income or is it for personal exploration with self fulfillment the end goal?

I went to college specifically for job potential / income growth. Nothing more. Majored in business.

Like I said, you can study all that soft sh*t on your own. No need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to read a history book. Just go to a public library.

I didn't make it that far dropped out, went into manufacturing HAVC as a grunt working on the line. Ended up in QA for 35 years. Talking about soft stuff we had students in the day that had become professional students never getting a degree.

Yeah, we called them "super seniors" at my school. Guys literally in their 6th or 7th year of school. Always majored in social science stuff... history, black history, etc. They were always the campus agitators, etc. Basically professional students and social justice warriors.

a reply to: JAGStorm

1. The amount of debt being taken out:
I had no choice in this, and I think many colleges are massively overcharging for their courses. For example, one of my courses was about $1,400. It was an online course with a professor who lived in some other state and had no interaction with the "class" itself, and the only material for it was a single e-book. No tests, no quizzes, just read the e-book. And it cost me $1,400 just for that one course.

2. Students not understanding INTEREST:
I just realized the other day that despite paying a little towards my loans for almost a year, I currently owe more now than before I started paying at all. I don't care who doesn't understand what, something is absolutely *ed up with the kind of system where despite making payments for a year, you end up owing more than before you started paying anything at all. I don't care who disagrees with this - I think interest on student loans in its current state should be illegal. It's nothing more than predatory. What would be fair is if you take out loans for say $40,000 to cover your education, and then you pay back $42,000 flat afterwards.

a reply to: trollz

I just realized the other day that despite paying a little towards my loans for almost a year, I currently owe more now than before I started paying at all.

You were not paying enough to cover the interest.

What would be fair is if you take out loans for say $40,000 to cover your education, and then you pay back $42,000 flat afterwards.

That's funny. You get into a business of loaning people 40K and let them pay 2K back in interest.

originally posted by: trollz
a reply to: JAGStorm

1. The amount of debt being taken out:
I had no choice in this, and I think many colleges are massively overcharging for their courses. For example, one of my courses was about $1,400. It was an online course with a professor who lived in some other state and had no interaction with the "class" itself, and the only material for it was a single e-book. No tests, no quizzes, just read the e-book. And it cost me $1,400 just for that one course.

2. Students not understanding INTEREST:
I just realized the other day that despite paying a little towards my loans for almost a year, I currently owe more now than before I started paying at all. I don't care who doesn't understand what, something is absolutely *ed up with the kind of system where despite making payments for a year, you end up owing more than before you started paying anything at all. I don't care who disagrees with this - I think interest on student loans in its current state should be illegal. It's nothing more than predatory. What would be fair is if you take out loans for say $40,000 to cover your education, and then you pay back $42,000 flat afterwards.

1, I call BS on you not having a choice. There are a lot of choices, lots of colleges (even online) to choose from. Seems some don't want to spend the time and effort to review the positives and negatives of each one. Compare them against the cost, and make a GOOD decision. Sounds like one (or more) of your parents failed to explain that part of adult life to you. Too bad.

2. Welcome to the REAL WORLD. Where profit is what a business is in business for, 24/7. Did you read the fine print on that tuition loan? Did you calculate the compound interest? Do you even know what compound interest really is at all? AS an adult YOU are responsible for those things, nobody else.

Welcome to adulthood.

originally posted by: trollz
a reply to: JAGStorm

1. The amount of debt being taken out:
I had no choice in this, and I think many colleges are massively overcharging for their courses. For example, one of my courses was about $1,400. It was an online course with a professor who lived in some other state and had no interaction with the "class" itself, and the only material for it was a single e-book. No tests, no quizzes, just read the e-book. And it cost me $1,400 just for that one course.

2. Students not understanding INTEREST:
I just realized the other day that despite paying a little towards my loans for almost a year, I currently owe more now than before I started paying at all. I don't care who doesn't understand what, something is absolutely *ed up with the kind of system where despite making payments for a year, you end up owing more than before you started paying anything at all. I don't care who disagrees with this - I think interest on student loans in its current state should be illegal. It's nothing more than predatory. What would be fair is if you take out loans for say $40,000 to cover your education, and then you pay back $42,000 flat afterwards.

Sounds like you don't understand interest either...

Here is a primer.

If you borrow $50,000 at a rate of 5%. The interest - only payment each month is $50,000 * .05 / 12 = $208.33 In other words, if you aren't paying at least $208.33/month the balance of the loan will grow because your payment does not cover the interest accruing on the loan.

If you just paid $100 what would happen is $108.33 of accrued interest would get added back to the principle balance. So now you owe $50,108.33. More than you started with. $50,108.33 * .05 / 12 = $208.78. So the interest-only payment the next month actually increased because teh balance of the loan is growing. The longer you do this, the more the balance is going to grow.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I just hope they never "erase" student loan debt. For too many years I struggled and did without a great many things because of my student loan payments. Now that they're finally paid off, I don't want to pay for other's to get ahead while I (my tax dollars) pay for their unpaid debts.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: JAGStorm

I just hope they never "erase" student loan debt. For too many years I struggled and did without a great many things because of my student loan payments. Now that they're finally paid off, I don't want to pay for other's to get ahead while I (my tax dollars) pay for their unpaid debts.

That's the problem with forgiving student loan debt. You wind up screwing over everyone who was prudent and paid off their debts.

I'd be ok with govt encouraging people to pay back their debts by reducing tax burden. Every dollar of student loan you pay off you get a credit against income taxes.

Govt would never do it though as just like the banks, the want their interest payments adn certainly don't want to also give up any income tax revenue.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I think the figure that only 5% of graduate degree earners are defaulting is interesting. Is it because the jobs they have actually pay more than the degree they received? I know that's true in my case, I have a BS, MS, and MBA, paid off 70k of loan debt this year. Sometime Q1 next year I should have the last of it paid off, considering I've only held that debt for 6 years, that's not a bad turn on investment. That's coupled with a maxed out retirement account, investment accounts, and building a house for myself.

I will say that college is not for everyone, I don't think it was intended to be that way from the beginning. Shame that just about every job requires a degree of some sort these days.

originally posted by: Hypntick
a reply to: JAGStorm

I think the figure that only 5% of graduate degree earners are defaulting is interesting. Is it because the jobs they have actually pay more than the degree they received? I know that's true in my case, I have a BS, MS, and MBA, paid off 70k of loan debt this year. Sometime Q1 next year I should have the last of it paid off, considering I've only held that debt for 6 years, that's not a bad turn on investment. That's coupled with a maxed out retirement account, investment accounts, and building a house for myself.

I will say that college is not for everyone, I don't think it was intended to be that way from the beginning. Shame that just about every job requires a degree of some sort these days.

I'd like to see a detailed breakdown of student demographics that are in default. Race, Gender, Age, School attended, major, dollar amount, GPA, etc.

I suspect the defaults are highly concentrated with liberal arts students majoring in bullsh*t majors at third tier colleges/universities and they never graduated.