Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: turbonium1

Hey Jacka$$. The twin tower columns were stamped with ID numbers. Please list the structural steel columns by ID number that did not make it to fresh kills for inspection.

And because you have no capacity for memory, and honesty...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Again.....

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China.

More Turbo lies?

The Last Artifacts Of 9/11 Have Been Given Away

After 15 years

BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 10, 2016 1:05 PM EDT

fortune.com...

Tons of wreckage — twisted steel beams weighing up to 40,000 pounds, chunks of concrete smelling of smoke, a crushed fire engine, a dust-covered airline slipper

In documentary, first responders tell of 9/11, aftermath at Fresh Kills landfill

Updated Jan 03, 2019; Posted Aug 05, 2011

www.silive.com...

ISLANDIA, N.Y. — Anthony Yacapino was sitting at home, watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon in 2004 when he felt the first signs of post-traumatic stress disorder. “My heart felt like it was leaping out of my chest. I thought I was dying. It was seriously scary,” he recalls.

The retired New York City police detective, like thousands of colleagues, worked for months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks dealing with the aftermath. He interviewed relatives of the dead at a bereavement center and later searched for human remains and victims’ belongings at the former Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island.

2001-10-15 04:00:00 PDT New York -- The world's largest landfill, a 2,200-foot mound of compacted trash on Staten Island that is visible from outer space, has been reborn as the world's largest crime scene.

For 51 years, nearby residents railed against the Fresh Kills landfill as smelly, unhealthy and unsightly, and it appeared they had prevailed when the dump was closed in March.

But the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, which reduced the World Trade Center to 1.2 million tons of twisted metal, broken concrete, pulverized glass and body parts forced officials to reopen the landfill, which stands 25 feet taller than the Statue of Liberty.

"It's really been a scene out there, trucks going all the time, lights on all night," said Wayne Ponemon, who was among the Staten Island residents who welcomed the landfill's closure. "Now it feels busier than ever."

Twenty-four hours a day, 400 New York police detectives, FBI agents and other workers rake and shovel through the debris in search of evidence. They also gather body parts, which are placed in plastic buckets and taken to a refrigerated van for possible identification.

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 1

m.youtube.com...

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 2

m.youtube.com...

Got any more truth movement lies Turbo?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Dude.
You are referring to steel from collateral damage of the towers at the WTC . Not the actual 200,000 tons of structural steel of the Twin Towers.

Calling me a liar while completely ignoring/silently approving of the criminal removal of so much evidence at the site, shows where YOU stand on this issue, that's for sure

I didn’t call you a liar. I provided evidence your are a liar, and totally misrepresenting the situation for an event that is caught on video from multiple angles, with audio evidence, photographic evidence, and seismic evidence.

Anyway. The cited sources that the WTC Twin Tower steel was examined, key pieces saved, sampled, cataloged, with a visual record.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China.

More Turbo lies?

The Last Artifacts Of 9/11 Have Been Given Away

After 15 years

BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 10, 2016 1:05 PM EDT

fortune.com...

Tons of wreckage — twisted steel beams weighing up to 40,000 pounds, chunks of concrete smelling of smoke, a crushed fire engine, a dust-covered airline slipper

In documentary, first responders tell of 9/11, aftermath at Fresh Kills landfill

Updated Jan 03, 2019; Posted Aug 05, 2011

www.silive.com...

ISLANDIA, N.Y. — Anthony Yacapino was sitting at home, watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon in 2004 when he felt the first signs of post-traumatic stress disorder. “My heart felt like it was leaping out of my chest. I thought I was dying. It was seriously scary,” he recalls.

The retired New York City police detective, like thousands of colleagues, worked for months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks dealing with the aftermath. He interviewed relatives of the dead at a bereavement center and later searched for human remains and victims’ belongings at the former Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island.

2001-10-15 04:00:00 PDT New York -- The world's largest landfill, a 2,200-foot mound of compacted trash on Staten Island that is visible from outer space, has been reborn as the world's largest crime scene.

For 51 years, nearby residents railed against the Fresh Kills landfill as smelly, unhealthy and unsightly, and it appeared they had prevailed when the dump was closed in March.

But the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, which reduced the World Trade Center to 1.2 million tons of twisted metal, broken concrete, pulverized glass and body parts forced officials to reopen the landfill, which stands 25 feet taller than the Statue of Liberty.

"It's really been a scene out there, trucks going all the time, lights on all night," said Wayne Ponemon, who was among the Staten Island residents who welcomed the landfill's closure. "Now it feels busier than ever."

Twenty-four hours a day, 400 New York police detectives, FBI agents and other workers rake and shovel through the debris in search of evidence. They also gather body parts, which are placed in plastic buckets and taken to a refrigerated van for possible identification.

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 1

m.youtube.com...

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 2

m.youtube.com...

Got any more truth movement lies Turbo?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 1 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 2 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

a reply to: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

More proof the WTS structural steel was examined....

And you are a proven liar.

Photo evidence the core columns fell last.




The record of the steel starts with the actual video evidence.

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
Lessons learned from the investigation of building materials, construction, an

files.aws.org...

As a result of the recovery efforts of the Structural Engineers Association of New York, Federal Emergency Management Agency/American Society of Civil Engineers, and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), NIST possesses 236 structural steel elements from the World Trade Center (WTC) buildings. These samples include full exterior column panels, core columns, portions of the floor truss members, channels used to attach the floor trusses to the interior columns, and other smaller structural components (e.g., bolts, diagonal bracing straps, aluminum fa9ade). Many significant pieceswererecoveredfromtheimpactandfire-affectedfloors. Additionally,therecoveredstructural elements have yielded sufficient representative samples, with respect to the detennination of the quality and mechanical properties of the steel, for all 12 grades of exterior panel material, 2 grades of the core column material (representing 99 percent, by total number, of the columns), and both grades for the floor truss material. The lack of WTC 7 steel precludes tests on actual material from the structure; however, WTC 7 was constructed of three grades of conventional steel (36 ksi, 42 ksi, and 50 ksi), and hterature values may be used to estimate properties.

The same failure modes for the Twin Towers was seen over and over again. With no evidence the steel being worked on by planted pyrotechnics as supported by no evidence of steel being cut by planted pyrotechnics from the video, audio, seismic evidence.

More here for WTC 5 proving the WTC was susceptible to fire related failures



So. What is this about this lie the WTC steel not being examined, representative samples not being saved, no photographic/ video log of the steel? Like to keep going on about your blatant lies?

a reply to: turbonium1

Moot point any way. The collapse is on video with zero evidence of cut columns by pyrotechnics.

Your false narrative concerning the structural steel loses out again....

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
Failure of connections, as a result of overloading, occurred

app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...

But please do go on. It’s nice to see what a blatant falsehood flat earther has in common with shameless and intellectually dishonesty 9/11 conspiracists.

a reply to: neutronflux

Shameless and intellectually dishonest. Your manufactured evidence had repeatedly been refuted and soundly debunked......

In your mind it is, cause it has to be this way since this threatens your reality. The way you "debunk" this kind of hard evidence has all quintessential pseudoskeptic maneuvers in play. Claim the opponent of falsefying and lying is a sad course of action especially when the opponent has told you how and why the Huibregtse clip needed work.
And just to add why the time in the video needed adjustment, speed of sound and visual(light) compensation, is the fact that these explosions start well before visual downward movement of the structure i.e. controlled demolition of the core columns and you bet your sweet a$$ they are 130dB at close distance.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

a reply to: democracydemo

Hello. Threat that point. If hundreds of charges were setting off with the force to cut steel columns, it would be obvious, with echos heats up and down Manhattan.

There is zero evidence of columns cut by pyrotechnics. Sorry.

Again. No one is saying there isn’t explosions from fires. Like pressurize pipes, pressurized systems, AC units, and electrical transformer letting loose. It’s expected from fires.

What you have documented is expected sounds from a large building fire showing there were no explosions with the force to cut steel columns. Which is backed by the seismic data.

Sorry.

originally posted by: Salander
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

By all means. Please go on with the idiotic fantasy of nukes at the WTC. Nukes at the WTC is a big fat lie. Slander. No. Pointing out blatant truth movement lies. Yes.

originally posted by: neutronflux
By all means. Cite where the 200,000 tons of the structural steel was sent to China with no inspection?

Since you deliberately IGNORED my reply to this, I'll show it to you once again...


...
James Glanz and Eric Lipton, "Experts Urging Broader Inquiry in Towers' Fall," New York Times, December 25, 2001:
"In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.

"Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three-day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation.

Bill Manning, "$elling Out the Investigation," Fire Engineering, January 2002:
"For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car.
"Such destruction of evidence shows the astounding ignorance of government officials to the value of a thorough, scientific investigation of the largest fire-induced collapse in world history. I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall."

"Probing Trade Center Collapse," AP (CBS News), March 7, 2002:
"The investigation into the collapse of the World Trade Center has been hampered by the destruction of steel wreckage that could hold vital clues about why the twin towers fell, a fire expert says. ... Glenn Corbett, a fire science professor at John Jay College, criticized New York City's decision to melt down and recycle tons of charred and twisted steel from the trade center."

www.sourcewatch.org...

Now you know there WAS destruction of evidence, NEVER collected and examined by investigators, before it was shipped away as scrap.

You deliberately try to twist what I meant by shipping away 'all' of the evidence, since I'd already said that TONS of evidence was shipped away, specifically. I said YOUR side was the one who illegally removed all of the evidence, as opposed to NO evidence being illegally removed by my side, or any others.

Like a typical weasel, you jumped on that quote, ignored what I HAD told you before, and repeatedly called me a liar. That's despicable, and dishonest, and everyone here knows it.


Again, I'd like YOU to cite where they DID examine and inspect all of the evidence before it was illegally shipped away as scrap, since that is what YOU are claiming here!!

If you cannot cite such documents, then you're obviously lying....


You think they only shipped away 'collateral debris'? I assume you can cite proof of that, unless you're lying about that too..

You can't even admit there was any illegal removal/destruction of evidence, that's the sickening part here.

Just shrug it off by calling it all 'collateral debris', and hope nobody wants proof for that, and after I ask you for proof, you ignore it completely, and go off calling me a liar over and over again, using a quote twisted and taken out of context, as opposed to what I HAD told you already.

Another thing, you 'jacka$$' - the steel was ripped apart, mangled, and small pieces, not in perfect sections with ID stamps on each piece.

Where do you think they place charges in buildings that are CD's? At the main support points, right?

What kind of steel debris would there be after a CD, which would PROVE it was a CD, if you didn't know what caused the collapse? Would you simply look at the pieces large enough to identify with ID stamps on them? And scrap everything else?

You'd be a complete idiot if you did that, right? Sure, because ALL of the steel is evidence, and EVERYTHING needs to be examined, AS evidence.

So what's your excuse for the WTC evidence removed as scrap? 'It was all 'from other buildings' 'They DID examine steel, you said they removed it ''all'. They examined SOME of it, but MANY TONS of it were stolen from the crime scene, and sold as scrap. And it WAS the WTC steel stolen and sold for scrap, unless you can prove it was NOT.

I'll wait to see your 'proof' for that claim, and then we'll all know who the real liar is here.

a reply to: turbonium1

And I posted accounts, video, and reports where the structural steel CORE COLUMNS where gathered, cataloged, sampled, analyzed, documented, and reported on with released studies.

Is that a false statement.

The twin tower columns where set with ID markings. Is that false.

The columns were Identified by those markings.

That is a true statement.

Now. By ID number. What columns where not found and inspected/analyzed.


By the way jacka$$. I have been to towns where the structural steel from the twin towers is on display to be seen and touched.

Over 18,0000 pieces of human remains were recovered by the sorting of WTC debris. 6000 of those pieces could fit in a test tube. But please, go on with your lie the steel and debris where not sorted and picked for evidence. And not a single blasting cap fragment found. Not a single piece of demolitions shrapnel found.

What kind of steel debris would there be after a CD, which would PROVE it was a CD,

The metal would have had an eroded washed appearance with knife edges if worked on by explosives The metal worked on by explosives would show signs of being worked on by high temp and pressured in the metal grain. There would have been very obvious shrapnel from like a land mine with the injured and with the human remains. Shrapnel that would have been recognized by any person that previously dealt with any injuries from anti-personal explosive devices. Like any medical persons that served in combat zones, or combat injuries.


All the failures where mechanical in nature. Over loaded to the point theY sheared, or elongated (stretched) to the failure point. Very different than being worked on by explosives.

By the why. Two reports that proves your full of crap...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Moot point any way. The collapse is on video with zero evidence of cut columns by pyrotechnics.

Your false narrative concerning the structural steel loses out again....

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
Failure of connections, as a result of overloading, occurred

app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...

But please do go on. It’s nice to see what a blatant falsehood flat earther has in common with shameless and intellectually dishonesty 9/11 conspiracists.

a reply to: turbonium1

How do you argue with a flat earther conspiracists that will not read what is posted. Or has no understanding of explosives, no understanding of metallurgy, and no understanding of science. You don’t. You just watch them slowly destroy their own credibility as they wallow in their own ignorance. When there is zero evidence of plant pyrotechnics cutting steel columns from the video, audio, seismic evidence. And that there is no evidence, and no indication any explosions created the pressure transient/ pressure wave with enough force to cut steel columns in the hundreds. With no physical supporting evidence. With all the WTC failures mechanical in nature, with no indication of steel being worked on by pyrotechnics. With the core columns falling last for the twin towers in long lengths tumbling outward. The statement the twin towers fell through the path of greatest resistance is a lie.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

How do you argue with a flat earther conspiracists that will not read what is posted. Or has no understanding of explosives, no understanding of metallurgy, and no understanding of science. You don’t.

Well actually you do argue with them.....a lot!
You are even begging for their next post so you can do it over and over and over again!

But please do go on.

When will you stop?

a reply to: neutronflux
Why do you keep posting the same image......the one with the columns that look like they are still standing......but then they blow away in the wind?

Obviously those columns did not get crushed by the building that supposedly fell on them......they simply evaporated and blew across NY.

Where did the towers go?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Why do you keep posting the same image......the one with the columns that look like they are still standing......but then they blow away in the wind?

Obviously those columns did not get crushed by the building that supposedly fell on them......they simply evaporated and blew across NY.

Where did the towers go?

Fake. Another truth movement lie.



If the steel didn’t drop to the ground as broken columns, what destroyed the other buildings at the WTC.?

Many of the surrounding buildings were also either damaged or destroyed as the towers fell. 5 WTC endured a large fire and a partial collapse of its steel structure and was torn down. Other buildings destroyed include St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, Marriott World Trade Center (Marriott Hotel 3 WTC), South Plaza (4 WTC), and U.S. Customs (6 WTC). The World Financial Center buildings, 90 West Street, and 130 Cedar Street suffered fires. The Deutsche Bank Building, the Verizon Building, and World Financial Center 3 had impact damage from the towers' collapse,[55] as did 90 West Street.[56] One Liberty Plaza survived structurally intact but sustained surface damage including shattered windows. 30 West Broadway was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC. The Deutsche Bank Building, which was covered in a large black "shroud" after September 11 to cover the building's damage, was deconstructed because of water, mold, and other severe damage caused by the neighboring towers' collapse.[57][58] Many works of art were destroyed in the collapse.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Each tower was about 500,000 tons in weight. WTC 7 I think wasn’t even 200,000 tons?

About 1.6 million tons of material obtained from Ground Zero was taken to the landfill for sorting.[18]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

According to an Associated Press report by Joann Loviglio, more than two dozen flatbed trucks loaded with 500 tons of WTC structural steel has arrived in Coatesville, Pa., where the massive supports called "steel trees" were made more than four decades ago, forged by Lukens Steel Co. in 1969. The steel framed the perimeter of the 110-story twin towers' first nine floors and lobbies before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks destroyed the skyscrapers. Now two mammoth waterfalls that are part of the 9/11 Memorial are being built within the original footprints of the towers. The eight-acre memorial opens next year.

www.911memorial.org...

A mile-long procession of 28 flatbed trucks is expected to arrive in Coatesville on Wednesday afternoon carrying 500 tons of structural supports, referred to as "steel trees'' because of their upward branching shape.
www.nbcphiladelphia.com...

a reply to: turbonium1

Answer the F’n questions.....

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

And I posted accounts, video, and reports where the structural steel CORE COLUMNS where gathered, cataloged, sampled, analyzed, documented, and reported on with released studies.

Is that a false statement.

The twin tower columns where set with ID markings. Is that false.

The columns were Identified by those markings.

That is a true statement.

Now. By ID number. What columns where not found and inspected/analyzed.


By the way jacka$$. I have been to towns where the structural steel from the twin towers is on display to be seen and touched.

Over 18,0000 pieces of human remains were recovered by the sorting of WTC debris. 6000 of those pieces could fit in a test tube. But please, go on with your lie the steel and debris where not sorted and picked for evidence. And not a single blasting cap fragment found. Not a single piece of demolitions shrapnel found.

What kind of steel debris would there be after a CD, which would PROVE it was a CD,

The metal would have had an eroded washed appearance with knife edges if worked on by explosives The metal worked on by explosives would show signs of being worked on by high temp and pressured in the metal grain. There would have been very obvious shrapnel from like a land mine with the injured and with the human remains. Shrapnel that would have been recognized by any person that previously dealt with any injuries from anti-personal explosive devices. Like any medical persons that served in combat zones, or combat injuries.


All the failures where mechanical in nature. Over loaded to the point theY sheared, or elongated (stretched) to the failure point. Very different than being worked on by explosives.

By the why. Two reports that proves your full of crap...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Moot point any way. The collapse is on video with zero evidence of cut columns by pyrotechnics.

Your false narrative concerning the structural steel loses out again....

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
Failure of connections, as a result of overloading, occurred

app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...

But please do go on. It’s nice to see what a blatant falsehood flat earther has in common with shameless and intellectually dishonesty 9/11 conspiracists.

a reply to: turbonium1



Then where did this steel come from?

According to an Associated Press report by Joann Loviglio, more than two dozen flatbed trucks loaded with 500 tons of WTC structural steel has arrived in Coatesville, Pa., where the massive supports called "steel trees" were made more than four decades ago, forged by Lukens Steel Co. in 1969. The steel framed the perimeter of the 110-story twin towers' first nine floors and lobbies before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks destroyed the skyscrapers. Now two mammoth waterfalls that are part of the 9/11 Memorial are being built within the original footprints of the towers. The eight-acre memorial opens next year.

www.911memorial.org...

A mile-long procession of 28 flatbed trucks is expected to arrive in Coatesville on Wednesday afternoon carrying 500 tons of structural supports, referred to as "steel trees'' because of their upward branching shape.
www.nbcphiladelphia.com...

a reply to: neutronflux
Did you watch the video?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Did you watch the video?

Nope. Because it full of proven crap.

Did you read what I posted.

Or how about why WTC 6 was damaged.

Design and Construction Features
WTC 4, 5, and 6 are eight- and nine-story steel-framed office buildings, located on the north and east sides of the WTC Plaza, that were built circa 1970. The buildings had a range of occupancies, including standard office and retail space. There were underground parking facilities and access to the WTC Concourse, as well as the Port Authority Trans-Hudson (PATH) and New York City subway system.
Because of their close proximity to WTC 1 and WTC 2, all three buildings were subjected to severe debris impact damage when the towers collapsed, as well as the fires that developed from the debris. Most of WTC 4 collapsed when impacted by the exterior column debris from WTC 2; the remaining section had a complete burnout. WTC 5 and WTC 6 were impacted by exterior column debris from WTC 1 that caused large sections of localized collapse and subsequent fires spread throughout most of the buildings. All three buildings also were able to resist progressive collapse, in spite of the extensive local collapses that occurred.

www.fema.gov...

How did WTC 1 and 2 have whole sections of structural steel crash in to and destroy other buildings if they were turned to “dust”.

Next you’ll start pushing the earth is flat......

a reply to: neutronflux
The answers to your questions are in the video.......

If you prefer to stick your fingers in your ears and go La La La there is absolutely nothing I can do.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If you prefer to stick your fingers in your ears and go La La La there is absolutely nothing I can do.

Yeah, it is sad and frustrating to see. The first time I heard about 9/11 being an inside job I thought it was nuts. Did not want to even consider that our governments would do such a thing. When looking into it further it does become painfully obvious that the public is being lied too. If Neuronflux wants to live in his little safety bubble, blind to forces that are happy to use him while he supports their lies, he can. If he wants to spend his life supporting and fighting for corruption, he can. If he wants to sell his soul to the devil, he can.

With all these lies getting a free pass, war went on fighting for peace. Now we have covid hysteria destroying society while valid treatments get censored, banned and restricted.

I don't know what happens when we die, it will happen one day. The only thing I am sure about is that the universe will remember us by the consequences of our actions while we are here. How do you want to be remembered?