Should you be able to claim an Alabama fetus on your taxes

a reply to: Sookiechacha

That can't be right, my wife was not born in the US nor was she a naturalized citizen and she had a SSN.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The 14th Amendment:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. "

You do realize at the time a baby in the womb was considered born right?

An infant in ventre sa mere, or in the mother's womb, is supposed in law to be born for many purposes.

press-pubs.uchicago.edu...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You do realize at the time a baby in the womb was considered born right?

No, I realize no such lawful presumption. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 by the United States Congress. It was not subject to some English commentator in 1763.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Then I am glad you can admit your ignorance. The fact you think he is just some English commentator speaks volumes. Without Blackstone a strong argument can be made there would be no America today.

William Blackstone in his Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765-1769) set forth themes that have contributed to several current American laws. His influence on the institution of law in America was profound. The morals and values inherent in the Commentaries are a major part of
Blackstone’s appeal to Americans and a reason why the Commentaries became the major resource for American statutory and case law for more than a century after the Constitution was written.

www.anzela.edu.au...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Here's some US precedent.

A fetus is not a person under New York law or under the State and Federal Constitutions. (United States v. Vuitch, 402 U.S. 62; Endresz v. Friedberg, 24 N Y 2d 478; Kelly v. Gregory, 282 App. Div. 542; Rosado v. Wyman, 397 U.S. 397; Wyman v. James, 400 U.S. 309; Adickes v. Kress & Co., 398 U.S. 144; Steinberg v. Brown, 321 F. Supp. 741; Rosen v. Louisiana State Bd. of Med. Examiners
……….
A fetus is not a "person" pursuant to the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments which provide that no "person" shall be deprived of life without due process. (People v. Fein, 292 N. Y. 10; Endresz v. Friedberg, 24 N Y 2d 478; Woods v. Lancet, 303 N. Y. 349; Kelly v. Gregory, 282 App. Div. 542; Matter of Peabody, 5 N Y 2d 541; People v. Belous, 71 Cal. 2d 954, 397 U.S. 915; Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479
……...
. Whether a fetus is a "human being" and a "person" to be afforded a constitutional protection is a question of law and not fact, and no court, as a matter of law, has declared the fetus a person under the Constitution. (Rosen v. Louisiana State Bd. of Med. Examiners, 318 F. Supp. 1217; United States v. Vuitch, 402 U.S. 62
………….
The occasions of State intervention extending benefit or protection to the fetus provide no support for the contention that the fetus has any constitutional rights. (People v. McGonegal, 136 N. Y. 62; Evans v. People, 49 N. Y. 86; Union Pacific Ry. Co. v. Botsford, 141 U.S. 250; Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535; Matter of Sampson, 29 N Y 2d 900; Application of President & Directors of Georgetown Coll., 331 F. 2d 1000, 377 U.S. 978; Endresz v. Friedberg, 24 N Y 2d 478; Kelly v. Gregory, 282 App. Div. 542

msu.edu...

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I did not realize 1972 was when the Constitution was written. When the Constitution was written, a child in the womb was considered a born person.

Now, as to whether any court has determined an unborn baby a person ... people have been convicted of murder for killing unborn children. That would mean courts HAVE determined an unborn child to be a person. Need me to source any of them to you ....

I still think they should be able to apply for disability benefits as soon as its known the fetus has has a disabling birth defect. Think they should speed up the process and do away with the waiting period also. Have Medicare card and disability checks all set up to go as soon as birth and disability is confirmed by Dr's. It might reassure some to know that they will have that help as they are listening to all the possible things that might be wrong, all the surgeries that might be needed and there would be less smoke coming out their ears as they try
to guesstimate just how far into debt they will end up being if they roll the dice and end up being unlucky. It might actually reduce the number of late term abortions.

originally posted by: dawnstar
I still think they should be able to apply for disability benefits as soon as its known the fetus has has a disabling birth defect. Think they should speed up the process and do away with the waiting period also. Have Medicare card and disability checks all set up to go as soon as birth and disability is confirmed by Dr's. It might reassure some to know that they will have that help as they are listening to all the possible things that might be wrong, all the surgeries that might be needed and there would be less smoke coming out their ears as they try
to guesstimate just how far into debt they will end up being if they roll the dice and end up being unlucky. It might actually reduce the number of late term abortions.

I'm sure this could be the case for downs syndrome.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: loam
What about disability benefits?

Being a fetus is already kind of a disability. It's like having your body and brain severely damaged and then having to go through years of difficult physical and cognitive therapy in order to heal. If anything, it should get Social Security disability payments, since a fetus is unable to compete in the open labor market.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I did not realize 1972 was when the Constitution was written. When the Constitution was written, a child in the womb was considered a born person.

As a fictional entity, like a corporation.

The US Supreme Court has affirmed on multiple occasion that a fetus is not a person and that the unborn are not entitled to constitutional rights.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

This is the great legal mind he is taking about.
www.thoughtco.com...

Hey what do ya know. I figured out how to copy and paste links on my cell phone!!!

Seems a lot of his ideas are no longer present in our legal system.

a reply to: BiffWellington
They will let the baby be born and the mother die then charge the baby with man slaughter or something crazy like that.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: JAGStorm

Only if the fetus gets a Social Security number.

Yes that is what I'm asking. Should a fetus get a ss#.....It is a person right?

And force them to look for jobs, the slackers.

a reply to: gallop

And force them to look for jobs, the slackers.

This little guy got started in the womb. Look at those skills

originally posted by: JAGStorm
This little guy got started in the womb. Look at those skills

The Trump Education and Jobs Bill -- Passed by Congress, 2023

originally posted by: BiffWellington

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: JAGStorm

Only if the fetus gets a Social Security number.

Yes that is what I'm asking. Should a fetus get a ss#.....It is a person right?

Not according to the US Constitution.

"No fetus shall get a social security number."

Which amendment was that again?

It may be declared a "person" under state law but the 14th Amendment (since you asked) says that only "persons born in the U.S. or naturalized here are citizens, and non-citizens can not get a Social Security number.
Another question is whether a pregnant woman can use the HOV lane based on the fetus being the second person in the car.

a reply to: JAGStorm


Are you saying I can't?

Hmmm, I may be getting a call from the IRS soon...

Fetus voting rights NOW!

a reply to: F4guy

Only when she is rushing herself to the hospital to have the baby while the ambulance is cruising around the other side of town wondering why they just can't find the street that they were sure they knew was in that area of town.
Then beware because anything goes.

I don't have a problem handing out a SSN or tax-rebate for fetuses if it will stop you from killing them for convenience's sake.

One would think reading some of the posts in this thread that a SSN established citizenship (it doesn't) or grants personhood (also not true).