Time to Ask WHAT TEMPERATURE IS PERFECT for the average on Earth?

a reply to: Zelun

Certainly a CME would be an extreme example, which is why I stated that it would not be necessary. Plus there have not been that many CMEs hitting the planet since the cries of Global Warming began. But there has been a steady, continuous solar wind which is composed of about the same thing as a CME, just in smaller quantities with respect to time.

I as well find it ridiculous to think that the planet is somehow isolated from the heliosphere we exist in. Our magnetic field does protect us (thankfully!) from the more harmful components, but not completely; there are the entrances near the poles where particles can follow the magnetic lines down.

I generally reject the idea of a completely electric universe, but electromagnetic forces are certainly a large component of what we experience. The exact same mechanisms that bind atoms and molecules together also create electromagnetic phenomena. There is also a link to gravitational force, although we have not yet discovered the nature of that link.

Anyway, I have the site Phage supplied me with bookmarked, and I may take the time to run some Matlab calcs based on the data contained. I believe the result would be quite... interesting...

Good job thinking outside the box!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Plus there have not been that many CMEs hitting the planet since the cries of Global Warming began.

As compared to before? The 50s, 60s?
Do you have evidence to support his claim?

a reply to: Phage

I was trying to let dead dogs lie Phage. You said

CMEs increase ion levels in the ionosphere, that is why "skip" increases during geomagnetic events. It has nothing to do with weather, which occurs in the troposphere.

I assume "skip" refers to atmospheric radio interference. Taken in context, it could be argued that you were addressing only my assertion regarding radio interference due to geomagnetic events, and that the sole cause of this phenomenon occurs in the ionosphere, well beyond the troposphere. I fear that is a dogmatic assertion, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Yes. Increased ionization in the ionosphere causes increased radio interference. That's not the only cause of radio interference, and it depends greatly on the band in use. UHF FM comms are largely immune to weather because they don't resonate with much in the atmosphere. Microwave comms are INTENSELY effected by weather, as it happens to correspond with the resonant frequency of water. That's why it makes great popcorn.

If your rebuttal to my assertion that geomagnetic events effects Earth weather is restricted to the quoted paragraph, then the defense rests, because you cherrypicked. If you'd like to expound on how it is that your apparent believe that the effects of solar storms are restricted to the ionosphere, then by all means.

a reply to: Phage

Based on 2 random 16 day time spans? You are assigning statistical significance to this?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh, Phage, Phage, you missed your calling! You would have made a wonderful comedian!

No, I am not formulating a theory based on two random samples... what I am saying is that there does seem to be quite a bit of variability in the magnetic fields, and that a quick glance indicates perhaps a longer look. Like Zelun, I like to think outside the box. You should really try it sometime... there's a whole universe out here!

Don't blame your nonsense on me.

Credit where credit is due, my good man. As a matter of fact, if this does eventually indicate a natural cause for the observed warming, I will be happy to give you a byline in the paper. Think of it, Phage! You'll be famous for helping to debunk the biggest politico-scientific hoax of the century!

TheRedneck

a reply to: Zelun

I fear that is a dogmatic assertion, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

There is no doubt since that is precisely what I said.

If your rebuttal to my assertion that geomagnetic events effects Earth weather is restricted to the quoted paragraph, then the defense rests, because you cherrypicked.

Now all you need to do is show a statistical (not anecdotal) correlation between weather events and geomagnetic events. Be sure to avoid cherry picking.

Sometimes the phone rings when I step into the shower. Does that mean that stepping into the shower makes someone call me?

a reply to: Phage

Do you have evidence to support his claim?

Not yet... we'll see. And you get a byline if I do!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

And you get a byline if I do!

And if you don't?

a reply to: Phage

Then you won't. That's usually how it works.

Well, Phage, it has been fun, and thanks for helping substantiate Zelun's thoughts. We couldn't have done it without you. But now it's time for all good rednecks to lay down with their heads on a soft, warm cowpie and drift off to sleepy-ville. But before I go, I will leave you with one question for you to ponder:

What is the optimal global average temperature?

You never answered that...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

You never answered that...

I don't answer meaningless questions.

How many angels can dance on the head of pin?

a reply to: Phage

Sometimes the phone rings when I step into the shower. Does that mean that stepping into the shower makes someone call me?

Funny you mention that, because I never shower, and nobody ever calls me.

originally posted by: Zelun
a reply to: Phage

Okay yeah, no. I was conflating things. The only reason you brought up the ionized gas thing was to point out that we have an atmosphere because of gravity, not because of electromagnetism. Sorry.

HOWEVER, comma, I think you underestimate the effect of CMEs on our weather. When the solar wind pushes on our geomagnetic field it changes the local electromagnetic flux from the top of the magnetosphere to the bottom of the troposphere, and that would have crazy effects on gasses in our atmosphere, ionized or not. It's why radio is clear some days, and other days not. When big masses of gaseous molecules are all given marching orders by a singular cause, the sun, you get significant results.

That was my only point. I think the Earth's magnetic field effects the orientation of gas molecules(and probably water molecules) that causes strange electrochemical effects that we don't currently understand. Things like low-voltage, high amperage currents in the oceans and the atmosphere, that simply haven't been detected yet, and contribute to the "chaos" that we describe as weather and climate.

peace

I agree with your points, the Rednecks points and even one of two of Phages who now trying to us his knowledge to redirect the point that the Water being polar IS AFFECTED, like the Magma being made of metals would be affected by the moving Magnetic Poles.

It simply has to because water is affected by electromagnetic fields if only slightly. In Physical Chemistry we study , among many very interesting subjects, the affects inside of enclosed environments of small changes. That is where I learned to discuss Atom level fields that interact with Atom's and Molecules. Van de Waals forces being one we talk about is a weak magnetic attraction.
From wiki: They differ from covalent and ionic bonding in that they are caused by correlations in the fluctuating polarizations of nearby particles (a consequence of quantum dynamics).

This is my story and I am sticking to it Phage.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Zelun

I think the Earth's magnetic field effects the orientation of gas molecules(and probably water molecules) that causes strange electrochemical effects that we don't currently understand.

Certainly not the first time I have heard of this, and it is an interesting thought. It becomes even more interesting when one considers that the magnetic field of the planet tends to concentrate charged solar particles along the poles, and the Arctic has been the source of a great deal of the warming trend we are told is taking place. Magnetic fields tend to have major effects on ions, even weak magnetic fields. That's why the Aurora Borealis is close to the North Pole.

As a matter of fact, I need to muse on this idea of yours a while... quite interesting!

TheRedneck

Exactly what should be studied Redneck!

originally posted by: Zelun
a reply to: Phage

I was trying to let dead dogs lie Phage. You said

CMEs increase ion levels in the ionosphere, that is why "skip" increases during geomagnetic events. It has nothing to do with weather, which occurs in the troposphere.

I assume "skip" refers to atmospheric radio interference. Taken in context, it could be argued that you were addressing only my assertion regarding radio interference due to geomagnetic events, and that the sole cause of this phenomenon occurs in the ionosphere, well beyond the troposphere. I fear that is a dogmatic assertion, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Yes. Increased ionization in the ionosphere causes increased radio interference. That's not the only cause of radio interference, and it depends greatly on the band in use. UHF FM comms are largely immune to weather because they don't resonate with much in the atmosphere. Microwave comms are INTENSELY effected by weather, as it happens to correspond with the resonant frequency of water. That's why it makes great popcorn.

If your rebuttal to my assertion that geomagnetic events effects Earth weather is restricted to the quoted paragraph, then the defense rests, because you cherrypicked. If you'd like to expound on how it is that your apparent believe that the effects of solar storms are restricted to the ionosphere, then by all means.

Like the cabal that work on ATS to spread distortions, cherry picking and believing they can baffle us with Bull Snip is the preferred patterns. Phage is one of the more articulate members of that crowd IMHO.

Great point here too.

I appreciate someone trying to grasp my theory.

For me? 77 degrees Fahrenheit. Any warmer or any colder irritates me.

65-68 degrees... humidity under 25%...air currents around 3 mph.... all rains would fall in evening & night time hours

Probably the best temperature for Earth would be where it was before it started precipitously rising not long after the advent of the Industrial Revolution. Why this temperature? Because it was perfect for the many species that had evolved over that point. The Earth's temperature changes over time; that's normal. And those changes will lead to further species evolution. The thing that's nor normal is the rate of change we see today. It does not give species an adequate time to adapt to the change, thus leads to large-scale extinction. Man might be next. Don't think our big fat brain can solve everything.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The extent to me on how much impact we have on the warming is kind of moot.

It is not to the "carbon tax" people.

Clean renewable energy can make cleaner air and sever our reliance on asshole countries for their oil.

yeah but then the S&*thole countries aspire to be a$$hole countries and have their natural resouces(fossil fuels) exploited by the man
I agree we should lessen our reliance on a$$hole countries.

Should we start with canada?

Why start with any country when the carbon crisis is supposedly a hoax?

a reply to: Justoneman

I'm a big fan of celsius so I would go for that one.

I also realise the fahrenheit crowd is pretty numerous so if we were to fight it out no actual winner can be expected.

Let's unite and beat the crap out of these Kelvin-guys!!!

But seriously, the japanese honeybee protect there hive against wasp by raising the temperature to 116 degrees Fahrenheit (47 degrees Celsius) which kills the wasp but the honeybee itself kicks the bucket at 118 degrees...what a difference a small temperature difference makes.

Peace

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Zelun
Sometimes the phone rings when I step into the shower. Does that mean that stepping into the shower makes someone call me?

All my research seems to point in the direction of a reversed-murphey's law where 80% of the time I wash my car I can make it rain. Can I incorporate your shower/phone model to complete my theory?

Peace

a reply to: Phage

I don't answer meaningless questions.

Meaningless?

So if the optimal temperature is meaningless, then the entire subject of Global Warming is also meaningless... do you normally argue this hard over meaningless things?

How many angels can dance on the head of pin?

32.6, assuming a standard straight pin and standard angelic weight.

TheRedneck