a question about the russian police...

i have been wathing "real tv" for a while now and there are some clips of the russian police "beating" the "bad guys" while they are on the floor and in handcuffs...

my question is: is there any rule against this???

and does this always happin???

EVERY clip of the russian police "real tv" has is them beating down "bad guys" while the "bad guys" are in handcuffs and not able to do harm...

thanks...

Russia handles many facets of their military and police training, tactics, and interactions with civilians much, much differently than what you normally find in America.

That's not to say it's always a bad thing or anything like that, just a different situation.

Real TV, Max X, and World's Wildest make a large deal out of it, but less because it truly apalls them, moreso because it gives their primary demographic(not saying you), the "red blooded, mullet wearing, redneck" a sense of pride that "I live in 'merica by god, land of the free, home of the brave! Where men are men, and sheep are scared..."

And all that good stuff.


Whatever

X

Originally posted by Xatnys

Russia handles many facets of their military and police training, tactics, and interactions with civilians much, much differently than what you normally find in America.

That's not to say it's always a bad thing or anything like that, just a different situation.

Real TV, Max X, and World's Wildest make a large deal out of it, but less because it truly apalls them, moreso because it gives their primary demographic(not saying you), the "red blooded, mullet wearing, redneck" a sense of pride that "I live in 'merica by god, land of the free, home of the brave! Where men are men, and sheep are scared..."

And all that good stuff.


Whatever

X

not me...

anyway, is this legal???

thanks...

A lot of it is... not illegal, I'll say it that way. Civil liberties is a slowly growing cottage industry at the moment, there are less things in place to give a civilian protection from or recourse against the government.

Very similar to here at one point in time. Most of the liberties we supposedly enjoy here are less the product of the original bill of rights, and more a product of landmark legal decisions that helped to define the scope of the bill of rights.

Does that sound cryptic? I don't mean for it to be.

We had some decent framework as far as rights and liberties, but those have had to be defined by various cases that brought the subject to light, and then went to court over and over and then were finally decided upon by a Supreme Court ruling.

Those rulings are the actual definitions we use when determining what is abuse and what is lawful.

Russia is going to eventually have something kind of similar to that.

X

Originally posted by Xatnys


A lot of it is... not illegal, I'll say it that way. Civil liberties is a slowly growing cottage industry at the moment, there are less things in place to give a civilian protection from or recourse against the government.

Very similar to here at one point in time. Most of the liberties we supposedly enjoy here are less the product of the original bill of rights, and more a product of landmark legal decisions that helped to define the scope of the bill of rights.

Does that sound cryptic? I don't mean for it to be.

We had some decent framework as far as rights and liberties, but those have had to be defined by various cases that brought the subject to light, and then went to court over and over and then were finally decided upon by a Supreme Court ruling.

Those rulings are the actual definitions we use when determining what is abuse and what is lawful.

Russia is going to eventually have something kind of similar to that.

X

i take it you live in russia or lived there???

do you fear your cops???

thanks...

Oh no no, I don't live in Russia. I only have friends who have come from a very tough life there.

The common thought of the cops is "don't screw with them and they might not screw with you", and I guess that works for most people there.

Slowly as time goes on there, and the red mafia is brought under control, people will get more and more of a voice, and from there, they will seek, or demand, certain civil liberties.

Those will be granted, but even then the change isn't "overnight", just like here, time to write, and then test, and then define, but it's just a process.


You know the most interesting thing a good Russian friend told me? I asked him "So what's it really, truly like back there? Now that you're over here, surely you must love things more than before?"
He said (not verbaitm):

And he just laughed. "Things are not so very different here and there, live carries out much the same really. One thing I can't understand is your media here. In russia, we have major crime in the streets at times. But you never hear it on the state run news. Here, I've never seen a horrible crime, but I hear about it constantly on the national media. I was terrified my first 6 months over here, barely left the house. "

He said that with a real truth in his eyes, smiling and laughing the entire time.

Really opened my eyes.

X

man...

great story...

anyway, democracy cannot be brought about over night...

it took america about 200 years to not even perfect it right???

i will give russia credit though...

it came a great way but nothing is perfect (not even america)...

an example:

bush wants "stable" democracy in iraq in 5 years (he wanted this a couple of years ago)...

impossible...

it took the US 200 years...

A very good item you chose to compare.

And you're right, natural evolution of democratic process takes a long time.

That's supposed to be what keeps it clean and free for the people.


Worth noting though that Bush doesn't want a true and natural democracy in Iraq. No, he'll be happy with a really quickly put together puppet democracy that american interests can control for american business' benefit.

Notice I said american business will benefit. That does not mean you or I. I mean Haliburton, The Carlyle Group etc

To be fair, most of the corporations that will gain the most will not even be "american", they are huge global conglomerates that house the real puppeteers' nearest and dearest. They are the ones that gain the most.

We wreck a civilization and they come in with money to "restructure" but they aren't selling anything, they're buying, everything.

Total Control, that's the name of the game bud.

X

also...

remember, that a country does an act ONLY if that country is benefited by this act...

but lets stay on topic:

i also saw that the russian police wear "ski masks" when doing an "arrest"...

i just thought that this was messed up...

you should be able to see who is arresting you so you can complain if you are abused (like the "bad guys" were)...

I agree with you there. They all get a slice of the pie to be sure.

Back on topic:

Yeah, but that's not really true. You can actually do a google image search and see that their police patrol isn't that far off from here in the good 'ol us. Hell, we even send them Ford Crown Victorias, normal standard issue.

Patrol is uniformed, badge, same stuff.

Detective is plain clothed, same stuff.

When you see them running around in all black and ski masks, you're seeing their version of CRT/SWAT in the police arm, or in a terror/hostage situation you may even get a glimpse of spetsnaz.

Spetsnaz is a special tactical brigade, they do work with the more mundane cops when large raids are involved, but they're not out there running traffic stops and responding to domestic calls.

They're for the big stuff.

X

Originally posted by Xatnys


I agree with you there. They all get a slice of the pie to be sure.

Back on topic:

Yeah, but that's not really true. You can actually do a google image search and see that their police patrol isn't that far off from here in the good 'ol us. Hell, we even send them Ford Crown Victorias, normal standard issue.

Patrol is uniformed, badge, same stuff.

Detective is plain clothed, same stuff.

When you see them running around in all black and ski masks, you're seeing their version of CRT/SWAT in the police arm, or in a terror/hostage situation you may even get a glimpse of spetsnaz.

Spetsnaz is a special tactical brigade, they do work with the more mundane cops when large raids are involved, but they're not out there running traffic stops and responding to domestic calls.

They're for the big stuff.

X

i believe you...

i the "real tv" clips it WAS a hostage situation...

the SWAT guys in the US wear "ski masks" too...

just like in the game "counter strike"

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by Xatnys


I agree with you there. They all get a slice of the pie to be sure.

Back on topic:

Yeah, but that's not really true. You can actually do a google image search and see that their police patrol isn't that far off from here in the good 'ol us. Hell, we even send them Ford Crown Victorias, normal standard issue.

Patrol is uniformed, badge, same stuff.

Detective is plain clothed, same stuff.

When you see them running around in all black and ski masks, you're seeing their version of CRT/SWAT in the police arm, or in a terror/hostage situation you may even get a glimpse of spetsnaz.

Spetsnaz is a special tactical brigade, they do work with the more mundane cops when large raids are involved, but they're not out there running traffic stops and responding to domestic calls.

They're for the big stuff.

X

i believe you...

i the "real tv" clips it WAS a hostage situation...

the SWAT guys in the US wear "ski masks" too...

just like in the game "counter strike"

Exactly.

You'll find that in most hostage or raid situations you'll recieve very similar treatment here as you see on real tv and the like. It's less of the culture, more to do with the adrenaline levels in the officers coming down from being amped up and ready for a percieved threat.

Here, we just have better avenues for legal recourse really.

X

i would venture to guess that some of these officers are not very far removed from military life where the rules of engagement are slightly different(ie.level of force used when apprehending someone),also from what i've read the organised crime players in russia don't really keep a very low profile so in some cases the police aren't that (in the dark) about who they are dealing with.police in north america are iffy about routine traffic stops as it is(with all of the officers being killed over a ticket)

is there any rule against this???

Yes there is in most cases

Is it enforced? No as much as it should be

Even in former Soviet Countries the old "ways" of how to conduct business is still present. And it can be seen even in the police and militaries of these countries.....that's goes to show how much of an Impact it made back when Russian/Soviet militaries and police forces occupied these countries.....

But it is slowly getting better

[edit on 23/5/2005 by SportyMB]