Nigel Farage launches the Brexit party

a reply to: paraphi

Whole slices of the metropolitan elite? I'm working class from the North, I don't know a single person who takes Farage seriously or support him. He's just a media joke.

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, we know the whole force of the current political parties will be launched against Farage as an individual. There are whole slices of the metropolitan elite who dislike him. He'll be accused of racism and all that. Yet he is probably the only force in UK politics at the moment who has held a consistent principled view on leaving the European Union.

Farage is already dealing with problems in the form of founding members of his new party who have left it after it was discovered that they were racist muppets. He's standing for election as an MEP and he can't deliver what he wants - Brexit - from the European Parliament!
Look, we might well be having yet another UK General Election this year - it wouldn't surprise me. This is the most chaotic period in British politics since the 1920's, when we had four General Elections in a decade. If Farage finally makes it into Parliament then I might reconsider my very low opinion of his competence. But frankly I wouldn't put money on it.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: PsychoEmperor

To be honest this is Farage's latest desperate effort to be relevant. Let me sum up his political career so far: he has failed at everything he has tried to do. He failed seven times to get into Parliament and his old party, UKIP, has gone off the far right end of the map (and when the People's Nige abandons something you must realise that it's gone too far). There are also a few other parties out there, like For Britain, which are muddying the waters. Will the Brexit Party make a difference? I doubt it, frankly. It depends on where funding for it comes from, what kind of candidates it attracts and what its actual policies are. You can't just campaign on Brexit. People will want to know what your other policies are, such as NHS funding and financial matters.

^^^^YES.......The people want what they voted for not some watered

down version of it!!!

Rule makers and not rule takers....

Its three years since the present government has dealt with or implemented

any other policies they haven't even dealt with Brexit. three flaming years

Let me be brutally honest: I cannot stand Farage, I think that he is a dangerous populist who peddles nonsense. If he wants to scatter Leave votes all over the right wing of British politics then fair enough. Labour is led by an idiot and I desperately want Jo Swinson in charge of the Liberal Democrats.

Nigel Farrage Shook up Cameron enough to call the referendum so he was

having an impact .... Where have the lib-dems ever got apart from propping

up a lame government ? And the green party ?

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Whole slices of the metropolitan elite? I'm working class from the North, I don't know a single person who takes Farage seriously or support him. He's just a media joke.

Joke or not, he's consistent. I'm not defending him, but why not say why you think he's a joke - what part of what he says and stands for deserves your ridicule? He's worked on a political end for his life and therefore has principles, which is a step above the average politician in the popularist Scottish nationalists, or those in Westminster.

No one supports Farage, but a lot of people seem to have voted from him in the past!

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
The referendum wasn't a binding vote

The referendum booklet sent to each home in the UK by the government clearly stated;

"This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide. "

Apply the sentiment of that turn of phrase to any other situation in your life.

For example; The boss offers you a promotion. "Think it over and let me know tomorrow. If you want it the job's yours".

Would you consider that offer binding and expect it to be fully honoured in the event you accept?

Or would you consider it perfectly reasonable that upon informing the boss you have accepted the position, you are then told, "Well...thanks for your interest...but actually it wasn't a binding offer..."

Was the job offer binding or not?

a reply to: eletheia

What exactly did they vote for? Did Leave ever say (accurately, not the delusional yes-you-can-have-a-unicorn-with-your-Brexit) how we were going to leave? What about trade deals? What about access to the Single Market? What about the Customs Union? What about the Irish Border?
These were all deal breakers for me during the referendum and they remain deal breakers now. All we seem to get from liars like Boris Johnson are a steady stream of nonsensical promises that we'd get amazing trade deals based on how wonderful we are.
This is not the 1950's, we don't have an empire any more, our merchant marine is a joke and the world will not beat a path to our door to do business with us. The Single Market and getting access to it is the most important financial aspect of the future financial well-being of this country. I keep laughing derisively when I hear morons in Government talk about how they are negotiating a trade deal with Australia. We need access to the Single Market and we need it now - not fantastical dreams of trade deals that will never fill the hole left by a no-deal that kicks the country in the financial nuts.
We are talking about the financial future of this country. Scum like Johnson and Rees-Mogg can afford a no-deal, with their trust funds and lucrative newspaper columns, but the average person on the street cannot.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Farage is not a major player in anything, he's a Liar a hypocrite. UKIP was a joke party and so is this. Brexit is going to push the working poor in the UK into poverty,

They are already there and we are still in the EU.

and people like Farage don't give a flying #, it is all about they money they can make. They don't have a patriotic bone in their bodies.

And you think

Tusk
Merkle
Barnier
Junker
Corbyn et al have.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: eletheia

What exactly did they vote for? Did Leave ever say (accurately, not the delusional yes-you-can-have-a-unicorn-with-your-Brexit) how we were going to leave? What about trade deals? What about access to the Single Market? What about the Customs Union? What about the Irish Border?
These were all deal breakers for me during the referendum and they remain deal breakers now. All we seem to get from liars like Boris Johnson are a steady stream of nonsensical promises that we'd get amazing trade deals based on how wonderful we are.

Well if we are such a loss as a country WHY wont the EU let us go

We are obviously of value to them for the way they are making it difficult

for us to leave? Trade is a two way thing its not all one sided.....

The UK trades with them, so they must trade with us so if we have losses

so do they.

They consist of 27 countries ..... there are 193 countries world wide and

it is said America and Australia are ready to trade with us, but we need to

leave first.

You give so little credit to the UK ...... but it is the second largest contributer

to the EU budget, big hole in their economy when we leave?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: eletheia

What exactly did they vote for? Did Leave ever say (accurately, not the delusional yes-you-can-have-a-unicorn-with-your-Brexit) how we were going to leave? What about trade deals? What about access to the Single Market? What about the Customs Union? What about the Irish Border?
These were all deal breakers for me during the referendum and they remain deal breakers now. All we seem to get from liars like Boris Johnson are a steady stream of nonsensical promises that we'd get amazing trade deals based on how wonderful we are.
This is not the 1950's, we don't have an empire any more, our merchant marine is a joke and the world will not beat a path to our door to do business with us. The Single Market and getting access to it is the most important financial aspect of the future financial well-being of this country. I keep laughing derisively when I hear morons in Government talk about how they are negotiating a trade deal with Australia. We need access to the Single Market and we need it now - not fantastical dreams of trade deals that will never fill the hole left by a no-deal that kicks the country in the financial nuts.
We are talking about the financial future of this country. Scum like Johnson and Rees-Mogg can afford a no-deal, with their trust funds and lucrative newspaper columns, but the average person on the street cannot.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE I am so bored of hearing this.

Leave means LEAVE! Not ‘leave with a deal’... It meant leave!

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: eletheia

What exactly did they vote for? Did Leave ever say (accurately, not the delusional yes-you-can-have-a-unicorn-with-your-Brexit) how we were going to leave? What about trade deals? What about access to the Single Market? What about the Customs Union? What about the Irish Border?
These were all deal breakers for me during the referendum and they remain deal breakers now. All we seem to get from liars like Boris Johnson are a steady stream of nonsensical promises that we'd get amazing trade deals based on how wonderful we are.

Well if we are such a loss as a country WHY wont the EU let us go

We are obviously of value to them for the way they are making it difficult

for us to leave? Trade is a two way thing its not all one sided.....

The UK trades with them, so they must trade with us so if we have losses

so do they.

They consist of 27 countries ..... there are 193 countries world wide and

it is said America and Australia are ready to trade with us, but we need to

leave first.

You give so little credit to the UK ...... but it is the second largest contributer

to the EU budget, big hole in their economy when we leave?

The European Union is not holding us back, the EU is wondering what the hell is happening in this country and if we will ever make up our mind to leave.
It was NEVER going to be easy to leave, if only for the reason that it had never happened before the exact mechanisms for leaving had never been tested properly. There is a lot of unavoidable red tape. We signed International treaties to get into the European Union and we will have to sign treaties/agreements to get out of it. It's the legal reality and when idiots like Johnson said that it would be 'easy' I laughed.
By the way I am delighted to say that Boris Johnson will very likely never get to be PM now. He has been exposed for the liar and charlatan that he is and the moment that he said "F*ck business!" I knew that he had just killed off his one chance to replace May.
Yes, America and Australia are willing to trade with us. Two problems. First, Trump cannot be trusted to tie his own shoes and will do his best to screw us over. Two, the USA is the other side of the Atlantic and Australia is the other side of the world. Europe is 22 miles from Dover.
I want this country to have a financial future please. I do not want it to plunge straight into a recession or even a depression if we leave without a deal. I would like some financial common sense please, not fairytales from the mouth of the more delusional Leavers who are out there.

originally posted by: JPtruther

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: eletheia

What exactly did they vote for? Did Leave ever say (accurately, not the delusional yes-you-can-have-a-unicorn-with-your-Brexit) how we were going to leave? What about trade deals? What about access to the Single Market? What about the Customs Union? What about the Irish Border?
These were all deal breakers for me during the referendum and they remain deal breakers now. All we seem to get from liars like Boris Johnson are a steady stream of nonsensical promises that we'd get amazing trade deals based on how wonderful we are.
This is not the 1950's, we don't have an empire any more, our merchant marine is a joke and the world will not beat a path to our door to do business with us. The Single Market and getting access to it is the most important financial aspect of the future financial well-being of this country. I keep laughing derisively when I hear morons in Government talk about how they are negotiating a trade deal with Australia. We need access to the Single Market and we need it now - not fantastical dreams of trade deals that will never fill the hole left by a no-deal that kicks the country in the financial nuts.
We are talking about the financial future of this country. Scum like Johnson and Rees-Mogg can afford a no-deal, with their trust funds and lucrative newspaper columns, but the average person on the street cannot.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE I am so bored of hearing this.

Leave means LEAVE! Not ‘leave with a deal’... It meant leave!

(Facepalm)
I don't care if you are bored. We are dealing with the financial future of this country, so you being bored is a matter of supreme indifference to me. We have to leave with a deal. Otherwise the economy will fall straight into a recession.
Can we please, as I have stated elsewhere, go with financial common sense and not delusional fairytales of the crock of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow? It is a crock, but not of gold.

EDIT: Plus leaving without a deal means a hard border in Northern Ireland. Which is specifically ruled out by the Good Friday Agreement. What do you want - Brexit or a broken GFA?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

The European Union is not holding us back, the EU is wondering what the hell is happening in this country and if we will ever make up our mind to leave.

Loll!!! If you believe that you'll believe anything.

Everything has been carefully choreographed with the help of all of our

remainer government

The people have made up their minds.... the government hasn't

It was NEVER going to be easy to leave, if only for the reason that it had never happened before the exact mechanisms for leaving had never been tested properly. There is a lot of unavoidable red tape. We signed International treaties to get into the European Union and we will have to sign treaties/agreements to get out of it. It's the legal reality.

Not for the reason that it had never happened before, but for the reason

that the EU has stitched us up over time ..... with the collusion of all our

previous governments stitching us even tighter with every signing of various

treaties I can still see Gordon Browns sheepish look after arriving late to sign

one, he looked highly embarrassed.

Yes, America and Australia are willing to trade with us. Two problems. First, Trump cannot be trusted to tie his own shoes and will do his best to screw us over.

In that case it will be little different for us than the EU?

Two, the USA is the other side of the Atlantic and Australia is the other side of the world. Europe is 22 miles from Dover.

Ohhh!! so far away I wonder they were ever discovered with only sailing

ships........

I want this country to have a financial future please. I do not want it to plunge straight into a recession or even a depression if we leave without a deal. I would like some financial common sense please, not fairytales from the mouth of the more delusional Leavers who are out there.

You think Macron Merkle Tusk et al are our friends?

Friends dont screw each other!!

a reply to: eletheia

(Facepalm#2)
The people did not make up their mind, 52% of those who could be bothered to vote said that they wanted to leave the EU without any idea of just how that was going to happen. If you look at the total population of this country, that makes 36%.
I mentioned the distances because you can sail to and from France or Belgium several times a day. It takes a bit longer to sail to the USA, let alone Oz. You trade more at a high volume with Europe. Which was my point.
Finally please address my point about the Irish border. Because that remains highly relevant.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: eletheia

(Facepalm#2)
The people did not make up their mind, 52% of those who could be bothered to vote said that they wanted to leave the EU without any idea of just how that was going to happen. If you look at the total population of this country, that makes 36%.
I mentioned the distances because you can sail to and from France or Belgium several times a day. It takes a bit longer to sail to the USA, let alone Oz. You trade more at a high volume with Europe. Which was my point.
Finally please address my point about the Irish border. Because that remains highly relevant.

If they cant be bothered to vote they dont deserve to be counted or given

ANY consideration.

Numbers can be and often are twisted to suit any position its done all the

time in business.

Ukip was formed with the intention of getting a referendum. Farage did that.

Now he has formed the brexit party with the intention of forcing parliament to enact the vote to leave.

Let's hope he goes 2 for 2

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
The people did not make up their mind, 52% of those who could be bothered to vote said that they wanted to leave the EU without any idea of just how that was going to happen. If you look at the total population of this country, that makes 36%.

The statistics of voting is a deniers dream. It's convention to assume that those who did not vote would have voted proportionately as those who did. Only people who don't like an outcome resort to the fantasy that those who did not vote would have voted against whatever outcome was arrived at.

Every vote has a deal of risk. While people complain that those who voted leave were taking a leap in the dark - "they did not know what they voted for", the reverse is also true.

Those who voted remain really had no clue what they were voting for either. Where is the honest blueprint as to what a federal EU would look like, for example. The EU is rolling towards something no one really understands except it involves the erosion of the nation state. Is that what people who voted "remain" were voting for?

It seems to me that many people voted remain for petty reasons, like holiday's in Spain or "who will deliver my pizza if all the exploited Romanians left". No one I know voted to remain because there was a persuasive argument that we should create an EU military, or reduce Parliament to that of a talking shop because all decisions are best made by grey suited robots in Brussels.

Franky, people who voted remain were taking a leap into the dark too. At least those who voted leave have the courage to recognise there are options.

I note that no-one has mentioned the Irish border yet.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

you just did

2nd

f.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
I note that no-one has mentioned the Irish border yet.

The Irish border is the biggest issue as far as I see it, and I have no idea how both sides can reach agreement.
Free movement north and south for citizens of the republic and UK seems the answer, similar to how tens of thousands of Spanish folk will still cross to Gibraltar every day to work after Brexit.
The EU could easily agree some exceptional circumstances arrangement if there was a will but they don't want us to leave because of the billions they will lose every year.

It is a tricky one because the Unionists refuse to accept any customs checks entering mainland UK.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Farage is not a major player in anything, UKIP was a joke party and so is this.

Under the leadership of Nigel Farrage 'Ukip' won the biggest share of the

vote of ANY UK party in the last European elections held in 2014 with more

than 4 million votes ......

Not bad for a non player and a joke?

Brexit is going to push the working poor in the UK into poverty,

You have stats for that or is it just another fear mongering opinion?