Capitalism

a reply to: Jubei42

Unfortunately, the majority of humans are not actually that competitive or ambitious. They just want simple lives doing simple jobs with lots of time to spend with their loved ones. Unfortunately for the majority, the world is dictated by and built to reward the select few that are truly ambitious and competitive, and force everyone else to work their lives away, to support the family they love and not allow them to spend any time with, all due to lacking that ambition and competitiveness necessary to succeed in our society.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Jubei42

Unfortunately, the majority of humans are not actually that competitive or ambitious. They just want simple lives doing simple jobs with lots of time to spend with their loved ones. Unfortunately for the majority, the world is dictated by and built to reward the select few that are truly ambitious and competitive, and force everyone else to work their lives away, to support the family they love and not allow them to spend any time with, all due to lacking that ambition and competitiveness necessary to succeed in our society.

I think you have just put the attraction to socialism into one paragraph. I remember being in that train of thinking through my late teens and early 20's. Then at some point I realized that no matter how much time I wanted to spend with pals and family, if I didn't have some sense of security, or money to spend with or on them, the idea of just "hanging out" was never going to cut it.

Sure, I will be 50 this year and probably spend more time than I'd like working - but I got ahead - acquired some skills. So even if some weeks I do work over 40 hours - its much less than the hours I pulled working 2 jobs and going to school when I was in my 20's.

a reply to: Fools

Problem is socialism tends to reward no one. Is why we need a system that supports everyone at least at the basic level, yet provides rewards to those who work harder and contribute more. We need the best of both worlds. We need the competitiveness and ability to improve your lot in life, for hard work and ambition to be rewarded provided by capitalism, but to not have to do so at the expense of the least of us that socialism promises, but without the trap our current welfare system provides.

The problem is, most jobs, and most of the work most people do simply exist to avoid punishment rather than reward. Most of the money you get from working those long hours in lower paying jobs goes towards, rent, food, insurance if you can even afford it, medical bills, car payments/repairs the primary use of which is getting to work. In order to afford this, you work yourself into the ground, what this is covering is basic survival and causing you to live week to week. So most people who work, then have to work extra hours, meaning extreme time away from home to get ahead. So they have a bit of extra cash to live beyond just existing. By this point however, they are physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted, especially as few people are workaholics, they want and need a life, a recovery period, a chance to relax. So that money which needs to be invested in their future, or saved for a rainy day, instead goes towards stress relief, be it booze, drugs, excess food, video games, etc because the person is miserable, and needs a quick pick me up before back to the grind. This causes resentment in most people, and rightfully so because it's complete and total bull#. For most people there's nothing positive about work, there's no reward. Those entertainments people are buying aren't entertainments, they aren't joy, they are stress relief they barely experience just to unwind a little before the suffering continues. People work because they are forced to, not because they want to. There's literally no reward for working for most people, it's quite literally pure punishment.

Then you have our welfare system, if you don't work, and know how to work the system, you can get everything I mentioned above, or at least close to it, without working. What I mentioned above is what you get if you start working. So a person has two choices, stay on welfare, or lose most of their life for damn near what they had on welfare. This is the welfare trap that most poor are trapped in.

People don't hate working, or contributing, that's not the natural state of people, as I've stated, people want to work and contribute, they just also want a life, and most aren't super ambitious or competitive, they are simple people. This doesn't make them lazy, it's simply means they want balance in their life, and aren't really geared for an overly complex work life. People just don't want to work simply to alleviate suffering, they want actual reward for their work. Most people also need human companionship in a much higher degree than the working world wants to pay to allow, or give as options. People are over worked, and most of that work goes towards just getting to the point where some hint of a reward might occur, but only in exchange for no security should an emergency happen, which invariably making things worse as debt accrues or more hours of work become necessary. The people on welfare don't really seek work because in most cases, if you manage to learn to milk the welfare system, it's actually a higher quality of #ty life than the one most workers have.

If people could start with the basics, and get actual savings and fun money from work, instead of fighting just go get to the point where they start gaining actual rewards for their efforts, more people would work, and quite happily. Most wouldn't work the hours they do today, but more people would be working as those people on welfare would no longer be trapped. The people on welfare not looking for jobs aren't doing it because they are allergic to work, it's because it's just not #ing worth it.

People are always saying, if you don't like what you do, and what your employer pays, leave and go get a different job. Problem is,no employers pay enough for most of the common man for their work, and especially the sacrifice they make in long hours, so that's exactly what people are doing, what is being suggested. They're leaving employment and not going back, because they aren't happy with the pay rate for the sacrifice. The ratio of sacrifice to pay is crap and unfair. These lazy people as people are calling them are actually doing what people suggest, refusing to work for substandard pay that allows an existence often worse than many slaves had. Unlike the slaves, they can choose to not work if mistreated, and thanks to the welfare system they are doing just that.

Thanks to the burden of more and more people dropping out of the work force for these reasons, more people that are working and were getting ahead are starting to have to foot the bill, which is bringing them down, and closer and closer to being in the same position as all those dropping out of the work force. Instead of blaming the people paying their employees so little work isn't worth it, thus causing them to drop out, they complain that the people dropping out of the work force are just lazy, especially for taking advantage of welfare. The solution is always drop welfare and force these lazy bums to work slave wages for long hours or die on the street, rather than, insist on better pay and improving quality of life enough to make work worth it for everyone. We'll all be slaves with two choices, work or die with no life, no savings, and not even a chance to unwind. At least we will if they, everyone's just lazy, get back to work mentality wins the day.

Long story short, make work worth it and people will do it happily and with gusto, make it simple drudgery with no real reward and people will do their best to get out of it, and foist it onto others so they don't have to. It's simple logic.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Fools

Problem is socialism tends to reward no one. Is why we need a system that supports everyone at least at the basic level, yet provides rewards to those who work harder and contribute more. We need the best of both worlds. We need the competitiveness and ability to improve your lot in life, for hard work and ambition to be rewarded provided by capitalism, but to not have to do so at the expense of the least of us that socialism promises, but without the trap our current welfare system provides.

The problem is, most jobs, and most of the work most people do simply exist to avoid punishment rather than reward. Most of the money you get from working those long hours in lower paying jobs goes towards, rent, food, insurance if you can even afford it, medical bills, car payments/repairs the primary use of which is getting to work. In order to afford this, you work yourself into the ground, what this is covering is basic survival and causing you to live week to week. So most people who work, then have to work extra hours, meaning extreme time away from home to get ahead. So they have a bit of extra cash to live beyond just existing. By this point however, they are physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted, especially as few people are workaholics, they want and need a life, a recovery period, a chance to relax. So that money which needs to be invested in their future, or saved for a rainy day, instead goes towards stress relief, be it booze, drugs, excess food, video games, etc because the person is miserable, and needs a quick pick me up before back to the grind. This causes resentment in most people, and rightfully so because it's complete and total bull#. For most people there's nothing positive about work, there's no reward. Those entertainments people are buying aren't entertainments, they aren't joy, they are stress relief they barely experience just to unwind a little before the suffering continues. People work because they are forced to, not because they want to. There's literally no reward for working for most people, it's quite literally pure punishment.

Then you have our welfare system, if you don't work, and know how to work the system, you can get everything I mentioned above, or at least close to it, without working. What I mentioned above is what you get if you start working. So a person has two choices, stay on welfare, or lose most of their life for damn near what they had on welfare. This is the welfare trap that most poor are trapped in.

People don't hate working, or contributing, that's not the natural state of people, as I've stated, people want to work and contribute, they just also want a life, and most aren't super ambitious or competitive, they are simple people. This doesn't make them lazy, it's simply means they want balance in their life, and aren't really geared for an overly complex work life. People just don't want to work simply to alleviate suffering, they want actual reward for their work. Most people also need human companionship in a much higher degree than the working world wants to pay to allow, or give as options. People are over worked, and most of that work goes towards just getting to the point where some hint of a reward might occur, but only in exchange for no security should an emergency happen, which invariably making things worse as debt accrues or more hours of work become necessary. The people on welfare don't really seek work because in most cases, if you manage to learn to milk the welfare system, it's actually a higher quality of #ty life than the one most workers have.

If people could start with the basics, and get actual savings and fun money from work, instead of fighting just go get to the point where they start gaining actual rewards for their efforts, more people would work, and quite happily. Most wouldn't work the hours they do today, but more people would be working as those people on welfare would no longer be trapped. The people on welfare not looking for jobs aren't doing it because they are allergic to work, it's because it's just not #ing worth it.

People are always saying, if you don't like what you do, and what your employer pays, leave and go get a different job. Problem is,no employers pay enough for most of the common man for their work, and especially the sacrifice they make in long hours, so that's exactly what people are doing, what is being suggested. They're leaving employment and not going back, because they aren't happy with the pay rate for the sacrifice. The ratio of sacrifice to pay is crap and unfair. These lazy people as people are calling them are actually doing what people suggest, refusing to work for substandard pay that allows an existence often worse than many slaves had. Unlike the slaves, they can choose to not work if mistreated, and thanks to the welfare system they are doing just that.

Thanks to the burden of more and more people dropping out of the work force for these reasons, more people that are working and were getting ahead are starting to have to foot the bill, which is bringing them down, and closer and closer to being in the same position as all those dropping out of the work force. Instead of blaming the people paying their employees so little work isn't worth it, thus causing them to drop out, they complain that the people dropping out of the work force are just lazy, especially for taking advantage of welfare. The solution is always drop welfare and force these lazy bums to work slave wages for long hours or die on the street, rather than, insist on better pay and improving quality of life enough to make work worth it for everyone. We'll all be slaves with two choices, work or die with no life, no savings, and not even a chance to unwind. At least we will if they, everyone's just lazy, get back to work mentality wins the day.

Long story short, make work worth it and people will do it happily and with gusto, make it simple drudgery with no real reward and people will do their best to get out of it, and foist it onto others so they don't have to. It's simple logic.

I will come back to this with more sometime this weekend.

I will comment on this one sentence:

"People don't hate working, or contributing, that's not the natural state of people"

I think most people do hate working unless it can be seen to directly benefit what they are trying to acquire. If they do not hate it, they are at least aren't excited to go work. I am sort of fortunate that way, there are days I am glad I am going to work.

a reply to: Fools

People enjoy feeling useful and a part of something but only if they feel their contribution is appreciated and worth the effort. It helps give people a sense of self worth and is an imortant part of our mental and emitional well being. We are social animals and gain a great deal from being a part of society. Now tell me how many jobs out there would you say show any real sense of appreciation for their workers or really leave a worker at the end of the day truly feel rewarded for their efforts.

People like working and being a part of something, what they don't like is being taken advantage of and being treated like #.

I'll give an example. Say a friend wants your help moving. I'm cool with that and will always help if I can. If the person has taken the time to prepare and box up what they could before moving day assuming it wasn't short notice, and assuming they work as hard as I do, unless they are disabled in some way, and make sure I'm fed while there working with them all day, assuming they aren't financially screwed, then I'm happy to help and will bust my ass as hard as they do, no questions asked. Especially if they remember to thank me, and even better ask me to call if I need similar help. I'll be there to help them whenever they need it, other than whatever nourishment they can offer if they can, I don't even require pay. In fact I'll go home feeling great after a hard days work and know I made a difference. I'll feel great about the work I did. Especially if we joked, laughed and had a good time doing it.

But, if a friend asks and I go help them and despite having tons of time to prepare nothing is boxed up, they spend half their time sitting on their ass while I'm working despite being perfectly healthy and leave me to feed myself despite having plenty of finances, and even worse don't even thank me or offer the same if I need it. This has happened. Well I'll do the work this time because I said I would, but I will not be happy it will piss me off and next time they can go # themselves. I hated the whole experience and it certainly didn't make me want to do it again. Especially as they weren't particulary nice or fun to work with spending more time bitching on their phone than paying attention to the job at hand. This is much closer to how most jobs treat their employees than the first example.

Employees are typically treated like crap in an overly serious atmosphere and rarely thanked by ungrateful teamleaders and supervisors that occassionally disrespect their employees by occassionally busting their ass for ten minutes out of the day and acting like everyone is lazy for not keeping up that pace for a full work week and pretending like they're the # then going back to standing around chatting with each other and bitching if they see two employees laughing about something.

I personally think current "capitalism" is distorted when someone invented alchemy and broke the equal trade rule which was mentioned by Adam Smith. According to Alexander Del Mar, a numismatist, silver was prior to gold before alchemy. But after Jesuit mission cultural manipulation, the trade ratio between gold and silver became 1:12 although silver was more expensive than gold until then.

You can find many books by Alex Del Mar here, and you will see the doubtfulness of modern monetary system and capitalism. Current "capitalism" even does not follow the anti-monopoly law although capitalism always involves law, compliance and mutual reliance.

History of Monetary System
archive.org...

Money and Civilization
archive.org...

a reply to: Fools

The multi dimantion theory
Things are not black&white
China has rare minrals that are mast for
West chip hitech indastry
China dont have fuel ,energy resorse
Thy by fuel tankers from the mid east.
Unnational conglumerat devolop Ai system
That are cosing unamployment
So the folk is buying chep good from china
Aliexpres as an exmpale.
The chinese are saling cheep goods to
The poverty stroken unemployd folk in the west
Becose china is coping westren indastrial good
Withot investig in reserch an devolopment of
Westren prodacts thy copy.
Westren company are useing chinese cheep labor
Swat shops to manufecter thier products
That the chinese copy and sell back to the west
The copied prodacts for cheep price without
Paying for westren patents and so on.
Its very complicated who are the bad guys
And who are the good guys
Its not black&white i
ts multy nations
Multy companys nationl ones and unnational ones
I stoped to figure it out
Its very complex and the global situation
Cant be reduces to simple models

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Fools

Perhaps we should approach economics the way some approaches morality "what would Jesus Do?"

My point is that without water there would be no fish. Capice?

Pretend to pay me, and I'll pretend to work...Capice?

Union proud, Union Strong

a reply to: Fools

So the so coled bad guy "the chinese"
Are not paying the west"good guys"
For spirtual property
But spirtual property acording to
Not abrahamic religions(jew,christian,muslim)
וsnt a property of god that he distribud to
The exselent ones , but is shared by all
Human kined and all the narure even a simple
Stone in the desert is sharing "god" spiritual property.
So who is wright and who is wrong
It is like a zen quan
That cant be solved
Unless you empty yuor mind
Of dulistic thoghts of black&white

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Fools

Perhaps we should approach economics the way some approaches morality "what would Jesus Do?"

My point is that without water there would be no fish. Capice?

Pretend to pay me, and I'll pretend to work...Capice?

Union proud, Union Strong

Funny. You get some funny points from me. First smile of my day.

Union love is the strangest love of all. Well in the modern sense.

originally posted by: kayprepper
I personally think current "capitalism" is distorted when someone invented alchemy and broke the equal trade rule which was mentioned by Adam Smith. According to Alexander Del Mar, a numismatist, silver was prior to gold before alchemy. But after Jesuit mission cultural manipulation, the trade ratio between gold and silver became 1:12 although silver was more expensive than gold until then.

You can find many books by Alex Del Mar here, and you will see the doubtfulness of modern monetary system and capitalism. Current "capitalism" even does not follow the anti-monopoly law although capitalism always involves law, compliance and mutual reliance.

History of Monetary System
archive.org...

Money and Civilization
archive.org...

Thanks, I will check those out. Always find any history on the issue of economics interesting regardless of the slant.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Fools

People enjoy feeling useful and a part of something but only if they feel their contribution is appreciated and worth the effort. It helps give people a sense of self worth and is an imortant part of our mental and emitional well being. We are social animals and gain a great deal from being a part of society. Now tell me how many jobs out there would you say show any real sense of appreciation for their workers or really leave a worker at the end of the day truly feel rewarded for their efforts.

People like working and being a part of something, what they don't like is being taken advantage of and being treated like #.

I'll give an example. Say a friend wants your help moving. I'm cool with that and will always help if I can. If the person has taken the time to prepare and box up what they could before moving day assuming it wasn't short notice, and assuming they work as hard as I do, unless they are disabled in some way, and make sure I'm fed while there working with them all day, assuming they aren't financially screwed, then I'm happy to help and will bust my ass as hard as they do, no questions asked. Especially if they remember to thank me, and even better ask me to call if I need similar help. I'll be there to help them whenever they need it, other than whatever nourishment they can offer if they can, I don't even require pay. In fact I'll go home feeling great after a hard days work and know I made a difference. I'll feel great about the work I did. Especially if we joked, laughed and had a good time doing it.

But, if a friend asks and I go help them and despite having tons of time to prepare nothing is boxed up, they spend half their time sitting on their ass while I'm working despite being perfectly healthy and leave me to feed myself despite having plenty of finances, and even worse don't even thank me or offer the same if I need it. This has happened. Well I'll do the work this time because I said I would, but I will not be happy it will piss me off and next time they can go # themselves. I hated the whole experience and it certainly didn't make me want to do it again. Especially as they weren't particulary nice or fun to work with spending more time bitching on their phone than paying attention to the job at hand. This is much closer to how most jobs treat their employees than the first example.

Employees are typically treated like crap in an overly serious atmosphere and rarely thanked by ungrateful teamleaders and supervisors that occassionally disrespect their employees by occassionally busting their ass for ten minutes out of the day and acting like everyone is lazy for not keeping up that pace for a full work week and pretending like they're the # then going back to standing around chatting with each other and bitching if they see two employees laughing about something.

Work dynamics are always weird. I have seen alot of stupidity over the years in regard to employee relations, but I have also seen employees that have really skewed ideas of their management and what the goals of the company is.

a reply to: Fools

I've seen very few well run anything when it came to employee relations. I can gaurentee that if at most of the factories I worked if allowed to do things my way no questions asked I could have not only increased production, but cut hours and overtime costs and had a happy healthier workforce. Most companies policies act completely contrary to anything that comes close to resembling how to motivate people and how to treat the human body and mind to gain and maintain peak productivity. Half the things I see companies do are so counter productive they are the reason they are always behind and struggling to keep up with demands. Then they are so dumb they double up on a push their mistakes harder falling even more behind.

In fact it's so bad and ridiculous that I'm certain it has to be on purpose. I'm convinced that for some sick depraved reason the goal is misery of as many people possible rather than actual success in most of these places, because if the goal is productivity and profit these places are run by morons.

a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

originally posted by: kayprepper
a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

< br />
Surprised Reuters reported on anything like that. It must be somehow in the queens interest.

They will plan to do next inflation and regime change, which happened in Past Soviet by Bolshevik.

[Inflation: The Soviet Tool for Destroying Money]
www.activistpost.com... .com

In the near future, they will induce next inflation and exchange old currency and new currency
at a certain rate (e.g. 1:10000, 1:200000 or some) to let last regime be ended.

I am not sure "last regime" includes which kind of stakeholders.
Perhaps, it includes military-industrial complex.

In that case, generally they use Gold as urgency currency.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: kayprepper
a reply to: Fools

Hey! Breaking news!

Europol started to investigate China and Russia as the hub of money laundering. That is the exact faction of drug mafia money and sponsored terrorism by central bank. They are all cooperated with Chinese one belt one way, which is funded by Jesuit who stole Japanese ODA for the new colonization!

[Europe vulnerable to huge inflows of criminal money from Russia and China, Europol chief warns]
www.reuters.com...

[Europol highlights Russian money as biggest laundering threat]
www.reuters.com...

< br />
Surprised Reuters reported on anything like that. It must be somehow in the queens interest.