Capitalism

Mods please move this if it belongs somewhere else.

I placed this under Political Ideology as it seems that many people actually think that Capitalism is a political ideology.

It is not, it is a natural state of things. A term that was invented to describe the natural state of human commerce. Human commerce includes, buying, selling, trading, and owning. The natural state of human commerce is Capitalism. This is because human beings value things, it's true, we value objects. I am not sure if you ever noticed that before, but you probably should have by now.

Capitalism is this natural human need to value things. This human need to eat, or build shelter, or build a better shelter and eat rare and more expensive foodstuffs. And you "socialist" folks, you really believe that is unfair, you really believe that you can control it so that everyone that exists receives all things they want or need in equal terms.

Natural things do not understand equality nor will they allow abstract human thinking to control them. Socialists will no more control capitalism than a weatherman will control a hurricane. You can try, you can do all you can to destroy a natural system but you will always fail and probably make things worse than they were before. Of course until once again capitalism will be allowed to flow where it wants to flow. Then things will get better. They always do.


Capitalism knows no color, gender, race, or boundaries. It just exists.

Capitalism knows no color, gender, race, or boundaries. It just exists.

Enter the triggered.

It is a decent definition of capitalism that was presented. I never really thought of it that way, but it is true. Communism is another way, people working together as a community works, but rarely does communism work very well on a big scale. Socialism does not work very good either, a few people who seize control usually dictate what is allowed. Socialism is ruled by opinions of a group most times, a group that thinks alike. I would prefer not to live in a socialist country, but I do believe socialized medicine could be incorporated into a capitalistic society.

The main problem is that in human society it is nearly impossible to stop the natural impluse for competition. Regardless of the system in place, be it capitalism or communism, certains individuals or groups of will manage their way to the top and use their influence to stay there. It used to be the strongest but now it favours the smartest, but the agression always remains.

Democratic socialism: Mass oppression, subjugation and poverty.

Capitalism may not be perfect but you don’t shoot yourself in the head to fix a headache. Socialism, not even once.

It’s been openly stated on the world stage by the United States President, America will NEVER be a socialist country.

Again, enter the triggered.

a reply to: rickymouse

Scaling is the issue in nearly all economic systems. It's why money was invented. We needed an abstraction of value to deal with the sheer scale of economic exchange in the early empires. It changed again with the promissory note in China as ever larger denominations of gold became impractical and even dangerous to carry around. The Templars introduced it to Europe several centuries later. Money as a technology is what has changed. Our concept of the exchange of value has been an abstraction for a long time. A construct to help us make sense of it and help economies function.

I do believe socialized medicine could be incorporated into a capitalistic society.

We've had a managed care system in this country since LBJ. All it has done is create massive inflation in the system as more and more of the industry offloads losses unto the government's balance sheet.

The longer we subsidize medicine the worse the problem will be. There is never an itemization of true dollar costs given to customers.

No one has to compete on price so they charge based on their own greed rather than genuine service/profit motivations other industries have to take into account. Government has an example of socialized medicine. That's the VA. It is awful.

The main problem is and will always be resources though, and supply in demand that might never end. Money or currency, even gold is more or less is just a global agreement on trading material things and someone's time an energy.

Early bird gets the worm and if it would be a good idea to wipe one's own bottom with it, or even smoke it just because you can.

Communism or socialism I find more or less targets the internal social structure and is more of collective bias. Hence why most of communisms poltical casualties were its own people wether it were martial law or starvation. Personally Im inclined to believe that communism is a more extreme form of socialism since I never actually seen an actual definition of what is a"good idea".

Then the eventual emergence of a technological singularity going to be a doozy. It will be more function then fashion, I'll say that much.

a reply to: projectvxn

We do have another example of socializes medicine here, the hospitals I used and worked in in the service, and they were pretty damn good.

a reply to: pexx421

I was in too, and treating everything with water and Motrin because of politics and budget constraints is not exactly what I would call good.

a reply to: Fools

If you study the works of Karl Marx he had very succinct criticisms of laissez faire capitalism. But just like race in this country everyone thinks they are expert without really spending the time studying the subject.

For example, here is a very brief video that's not too far to the left that does an excellent job highlighted what is wrong with laissez faire capitalism.



Most people think they are supporting capitalism. But actually, in the long term, they are promoting communism. Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is always followed by communism. This is because unfettered greed would result of the government's currency to collapse to nothing in value. Once the government's currency collapses, people in breadlines will demand more government not less.

The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force members of both parties to pass legislation creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. As more and more money gets concentrated into fewer and fewer hands it becomes worth less and less. Wealth inequality is at all time highs. Wealth inequality is so out out of balance it's hard to imagine the currency is worth anything at all.

Wealth inequality in this country is so much worse than anything you can imagine

The data is very clear. The dollar is collapsing in value.

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

We are very close to all becoming communists. The breadlines are coming. See you in the breadlines comrades!!

a reply to: Fools

It is not, it is a natural state of things.

How natural is it exactly? Natural like... err.. say promiscuity, rape and abuse?

So what? The natural state of things is decay with a strong tendency towards entropy. I suppose we should stop brushing teeth and head straight for the cellar, light a candle and just "let it be for good"?

Forget the betterment of humanity, this is about the betterment of your saving accounts. I get it, just be frank about it?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Not a Marxist myself but I agree with the assertion that unregulated capitalism will lead to communism and currency deflation, it happened in Rome, it's currently happening here and has happened everywhere all throughout history

a reply to: dfnj2015

Thing is that this is as much as problem of government as it ever was of business. You admit as much. And what it all boils down to is human failing.

So how you think the answer to it all is to collectivize all humans together so that all of us are roped together and forced into a collective is beyond me.

The humans who are bad find it easier in that setting to prey off the ones who do their best. And pretty soon, the ones who do their best get pretty cynical about it all and stop working as hard. There's no point, they never get anywhere by doing it. Think about it ... If the daily requirement in the widget factory is to produce at least 20 widgets, Jed used to take extreme pride in knowing he could easily produce 25 or more in a day. He also used to get bonuses and raises based on that rate of production. But then, the factory went collectivist. Now the rate of production is averaged out. Jed can produce more, but it means nothing. Actually, all it means is that Jed's partner Joe who hates having to work fast enough to produce his 20 because he likes his long smoke breaks can now work slower and produce less because Jed takes up the slack by producing more. Pretty soon, Jed stops trying to produce more than 20 because what's the point? Why does he want to cover for Joe?

The reason that anything is collapsing is because of the effects of socialist policies as well as forced price controls via the government.

Anything socialist cannot exist without capitalism existing.

One of my best pals grew up in the Soviet Union. He stated that the only rich people were members of the CP and criminals. Criminals were rich because people valued things the communist party could not provide. The black market for things considered trinkets in the west was HUGE. Capitalism existed even when forced out of existence. You will never destroy it. It just is. As long as there are human beings, there will be capitalism.

In general man is two things, working and socializing. As such we have a government that helps us balance these two impulses between us as we interact.

In short, socializing, is feeling and if all we do is feel, and try not to hurt others feelings, we end up like trees, pure feeling to the point that we cannot think to move. That is communism.

If all we do is work, and do not recognize others needs, we end up like grizzly bears, you rule the forest, but have no friends. This is capitalism.

I want to live on a lake and cut down a few trees to see the sunset and not have to worry about the bears eating me while I sit there. That is balance in society.

Keep in mind, the trees will provide us wood for our ax handles to cut them down and the grizzly will never have enough friends to overwhelm us, so stay to the center, keep in balance and enjoy the sunsets.

a reply to: Fools

I love that view, that capitalism is the natural state of things. Trade has been the cornerstone of peace and prosperity between individuals and communities since time immemorial.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: dfnj2015

Not a Marxist myself but I agree with the assertion that unregulated capitalism will lead to communism and currency deflation, it happened in Rome, it's currently happening here and has happened everywhere all throughout history

Rome became communist?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Fools

It is not, it is a natural state of things.

How natural is it exactly? Natural like... err.. say promiscuity, rape and abuse?

So what? The natural state of things is decay with a strong tendency towards entropy. I suppose we should stop brushing teeth and head straight for the cellar, light a candle and just "let it be for good"?

Forget the betterment of humanity, this is about the betterment of your saving accounts. I get it, just be frank about it?

If that is the way you view the natural order of things then so it is. And one might say that all communist/socialist nations have done alot more in the terms of rape and abuse than those that did not.

I already am fairly sure of your response: Real communism has never been tried....

I worship the Gods of capitalism even though being accused of being a socialist and communist on ATS over and over.

However capitalism has been replaced by a corporate crony kleptocracy where the American working man is now a serf to the Corporate overloads. But America is a paradise for the entrepreneur with spirit and guts to take a gamble with a solid SBA loan and a few venture capitalist friends.

originally posted by: olaru12
I worship the Gods of capitalism even though being accused of being a socialist and communist on ATS over and over.

However capitalism has been replaced by a corporate crony kleptocracy where the American working man is now a serf to the Corporate overloads. But America is a paradise for the entrepreneur with spirit and guts to take a gamble with a solid SBA loan and a few venture capitalist friends.

There is some truth to that. Our government which should police too much corporate power is instead fostering it. Obamacare is the largest example of that. It was obviously and purely a law written by health care insurance companies. The fact that General Electric and Amazon rarely pay taxes or that Amazon gets a sweetheart deal with shipping through the USPS is obnoxious and should have never been allowed.

The best way to deal with this is to make some amendment to the constitution that individual corporations cannot get extra breaks and loopholes over any other corporation for any reason. Maybe during times of war, but only war that has been declared by the congress as stated in the constitution. So in my scenario would Lockheed get some help during Vietnam or the Gulf Wars? No, none at all. During WW2? Yes, but only while hostility existed. Once the war is officially over then all returns to normal.