Vegan and anger

a reply to: peter vlar

This here is worthy of toms of respect because you didn’t just give it to the vegan in your group, you go out of your way to make game night as inclusive as possible. If more people had your (and her) approach, the world would go a lot smoother for everyone.

Many vegans feel the same about any animal as you feel about your dog or other loved family member pet. They could not just pretend it doesn't matter.

A solution to your problem of getting angry might be to increase consumption of potatoes and asparagus. Asparagus contains asparagains which are doping chemistry, they do make you kind of friendly but too much can dumb you down. Potatoes contain benzo chemistry, one potato can calm you. They also contain plenty of B6 which helps to form the taurine. They also contain the active vitamin D hormone calcitriol which boosts uptake of calcium but does not register on the blood test which tests for calcidiol or calcifriol. You should put butter on a potato to buffer the calcitriol hormone. Otherwise overconsumption can lead to calcifying of tendons and organs. I suppose you could use the light olive oil on them with a little salt and maybe some seasonings.

They should make a vegan handbook. I learned some of what I know from discussion with vegetarians that I know. The butter contains butyrate which is necessary if you do not have the right microbes in your gut to convert plants to butyrate. Butter has a calming and enlightening effect, so does coconut oil. Both contain mystric acid which is a psychoactive oil that makes you happy.

Where do I stop with explaining the properties of food and their relation to metabolomics?

originally posted by: rickymouse
A solution to your problem of getting angry might be to increase consumption of potatoes and asparagus. Asparagus contains asparagains which are doping chemistry, they do make you kind of friendly but too much can dumb you down. Potatoes contain benzo chemistry, one potato can calm you. They also contain plenty of B6 which helps to form the taurine. They also contain the active vitamin D hormone calcitriol which boosts uptake of calcium but does not register on the blood test which tests for calcidiol or calcifriol. You should put butter on a potato to buffer the calcitriol hormone. Otherwise overconsumption can lead to calcifying of tendons and organs. I suppose you could use the light olive oil on them with a little salt and maybe some seasonings.

They should make a vegan handbook. I learned some of what I know from discussion with vegetarians that I know. The butter contains butyrate which is necessary if you do not have the right microbes in your gut to convert plants to butyrate. Butter has a calming and enlightening effect, so does coconut oil. Both contain mystric acid which is a psychoactive oil that makes you happy.

Where do I stop with explaining the properties of food and their relation to metabolomics?

I love this post - so much

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

This post and your first are contradictory.

How do you always get into all-out war and defensive mode, if you usually just walk away? That can only really happen if you feel like just talking about veganism makes you feel defensive.

a reply to: DrumsRfun

My philosophy is that if you treat the animals as best you can before you kill them to eat them, then it is acceptable. I do not agree with the way factory farming pumps out meat.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I learned about the circle of life a long time ago, and where my food came from. There is no need to be cruel, but everything on this planet has to eat and we were all fashioned to eat different things.

As I type, I have a mouse in a Kleenex box inside our pet snake's terrarium. The Severus Snake doesn't take frozen/thawed which would be considerably easier on us (I've tried, and I'll try to convert him again when he's older), but even then, those mice are still barely babies when they're humanely euthanized. It's one of the harder aspects of reptile ownership -- their diet.

It's comical that many of the commenters here lambasting you as a moralizing soapbox-stander are precisely that in the political threads. Hypocrites.

Anyways, I eat meat but, like my ancestors, I like to say a little prayer to the dispatched animal before I do.

Something like "Thank you for giving your life to sustain mine. I will do my best with the strength you give me." That's my two bits.

a reply to: rickymouse

I couldn't agree more on every point.

Not trying to be oversensitive or anything but,anytime a piece of uneaten meat is thrown in the trash,it is like pissing on the animal and its life.
Thats when we look like soulless assholes.

Speaking of soulless assholes...
When I bought Halal,I made sure to tell my friends that I bought it so that god will like me more than he does them...I always keep reminding them how much god hates them.
Its a long running joke now.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: rickymouse

I couldn't agree more on every point.

Not trying to be oversensitive or anything but,anytime a piece of uneaten meat is thrown in the trash,it is like pissing on the animal and its life.
Thats when we look like soulless assholes.

Speaking of soulless assholes...
When I bought Halal,I made sure to tell my friends that I bought it so that god will like me more than he does them...I always keep reminding them how much god hates them.
Its a long running joke now.

I hate wasting any food. I have broke the wife of her wasteful ways finally, she would order a steak and not eat anything but the prime part of it at the restaurant. There are only a few restaurants her that have as good beef as we get. And the prices at those restaurants is not cheap. She has learned that if we make the steaks they are better and way cheaper. At home I will eat her scraps, but not so much in a fancy restaurant. We go to an all you can eat fish fry about once a month and I will eat her scraps there at the restaurant even though I can order as much as I want. I hate wasting because it is a sign of disrespect. I know so many people who waste half of what they buy. That is expensive to do that, but they just say, look at how much I would have paid if I ate out. My father taught me, if you kill it you eat it.....that applies to any meat you buy, your purchase contributed to a death of an animal so do not waste the life.

a reply to: rickymouse

I do not agree with the way factory farming pumps out meat.

There are two reasons why I'm a vegetarian - and that's one of them

I was quite the carnivore - and probably would be still if it weren't for that. I believe in the natural world - but this part of it isn't natural anymore

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
I mean if they really had those kinds of emotions, mowing the grass or even walking on your lawn would be tragic!

That's the natural world. It's a sick twisted volatile place that only the sickest most horrific mind could devise.

What makes nature beautiful is the way life finds a way. It's the beauty that exists despite the cold harsh uncaringness of nature.

Which is why veganism and vegetarianism makes me sad and frustrates me to no end. See I care about animals and suffering myself, but am not likewise delusional about reality. I recognize that eating or not eating meat results in suffering of or the destruction of, or removal of other life, be it directly or indirectly. Life requires suffering and death to sustain itself, that's just how it is.

So, you might be asking, what do we do? The answer is, we accept the cold harsh truths of reality, then, turn around and do what we can to lessen and soften those hard truths in a way that is both honest and effective.

Not eating meat, and going vegan or vegetarian does not actually accomplish anything, it's not accepting the harsh truths of reality, instead denying them, doing something completely ineffective, and creating situations where everyone needs to adapt to your "lifestyle" choice whenever food is involved.

No fewer animals are killed because one is vegan, no fewer animals suffer because one is vegan, whether one is vegan or not farms are still needed and animal populations still need to be controlled. If everyone became vegan tomorrow, the death that would have to occur of animals en mass would be staggering. Many animals that currently benefit by being important to human survival would soon become extinct, no longer having a place in the world.

So again, what to do? Answer is simple and hard at the same time. We respect the truth, and in doing so respect the sacrifice of those we depend on for life. We learn to better use the whole animal, even if it means not always having the best cut of meat. We become more efficient and less wasteful. No more leather cows and meat cows. Use the same damn animals. We treat the animals with respect. Yes we still eat them, but only after they've led a good life, not one where they are cramped, and we kill them humanely. We stop thanking gods for our food (who if they exist force suffering and murder as the only means to live) and start thanking the food itself for it's regretful sacrifice it was required to make for our survival, and recognizing and appreciating that sacrifice.

Where do we begin? One, personal, it starts with recognizing the truth, and letting go of the comforting delusion that life can be lived without relying on the suffering and pain of others. Then the recognition that while this horrid reality is true, such suffering can be lessened if we take efforts towards doing so. Three recognizing that animals have a right to live, even prey animals that would lose a place in our world were we to suddenly stop eating meat. After this, acceptance, we move onto fighting to create a better world. We support only humane business models, we help make humane practices profitable by promoting and purchasing their products while simultaneously doing what we can to hinder inhumane practices, boycotting their product and making sure their practices become no longer profitable.

Once you become vegan or vegetarian, you are no more a part of the solution than someone who buys meat from inhumane factory farms because in both cases neither individual is doing anything to actually encourage humane practices.

a reply to: Puppylove

Damn. Very well said.

Then the recognition that while this horrid reality is true, such suffering can be lessened if we take efforts towards doing so.

Each in their own way. There are more people eating less meat all the time. Why pressure people to eat meat if they don't want to?

Three recognizing that animals have a right to live, even prey animals that would lose a place in our world were we to suddenly stop eating meat.

How does not eating a cow or pig prevent a lion from eating a zebra?

If you're talking about our pets - that's a valid argument. We kill a lot of animals to feed our dogs and cats

We support only humane business models, we help make humane practices profitable by promoting and purchasing their products while simultaneously doing what we can to hinder inhumane practices, boycotting their product and making sure their practices become no longer profitable.

I agree with this. What is their incentive to make things more humane if people keep purchasing tortured meat? Boycotts you say? How do we make that happen - without philosophy?

I understand the pragmatic side of this. The OP's point is - why is it so hard to accept that some people choose not to eat meat?

I wonder that myself :-)

Food for thought:
Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

The new research shows that without meat and dairy consumption, global farmland use could be reduced by more than 75% – an area equivalent to the US, China, European Union and Australia combined – and still feed the world. Loss of wild areas to agriculture is the leading cause of the current mass extinction of wildlife.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

Interesting that my kids and I were talking about this very subject last night. We have a friend who is vegan and have seen/heard the ridiculous attacks they are subjected to when they reveal this simple fact.

I was a vegetarian for a few years when I was a teenager. When I ran an archaeological field camp we always had two groups, the wolves and the rabbits. Everybody got along just fine. There were jokes on both sides but there was none of the animosity I see today.

I don't understand it at all. I don't care what anybody eats as long as they're not stealing it off my plate.

I see that a goodly number of posters here have the same attitude as the radical attackers I've seen when the word vegan is mentioned.

Somehow we forgot about the "live and let live" motto.

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Skorpiogurl
First you say,

I don't go around feeling or acting like I am better than anyone

Then you prove yourself wrong.

Furthermore, lately it's been really getting to me that I actually live in a world where I'm forced to argue with people about the fact that animals shouldn't be harmed

Sounds to me like you are not telling the true story.

No one is forcing you to argue, I get the feeling it is the other way around.

I have vegans as family members. They are the only ones who bring it up, constantly.

I dont care what anyone eats, screws or worships.

Just don't virtue signal your perceived superiority and we will get along just great.

Well it's like this...
I say nothing and cook my meal and/or place my order. And the looks... what are you eating? you don't eat meat? and then come the endless questions that almost always end up in someone getting defensive without being prompted too. I don't have perceived superiority and I don't have actual superiority. I don't give a crap what anyone eats or doesn't eat and no one should care what I eat in return. That's all. Really.

If this is the case than I am truly sorry you have to go through this. It is nobodies business and they can SOD off.

There are assholes in every group, that is why I hate it so much when people use labels. Dem, conservative, gay, white blah blah blah.
People need to mind their own business, live and let live and stop judging everybody, grow a little thicker skin and not be offended by the way others choose to live.
Be more like eriktheawful and his friend.

a reply to: Puppylove

The other thing to understand about nature is that as much as it's horrible to contemplate, the prey depend on the predators to keep them healthy. Predators take the less healthy or less able which often seems cruel, but it pares down a population that is too many and keeps the prey species from destroying itself.

In many places, humans have destroyed the prey, so we have to face the hard choices and become the prey ourselves or let nature get out of balance and the prey species ultimately suffer.

The only way to avoid all of this would be if death had no power over us, but it does.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: Skorpiogurl

I'm forced to argue with people about the fact that animals shouldn't be harmed... really?

We as a civilization,wouldn't be sitting here right now if we never killed or ate meat.
First man used to scavenge from predators and get their leftovers.
We then learned to hunt and kill and hence we survived.
A simple fact you might not have thought of.

Thank the meat eaters that you are sitting here today and have the freedom to have the choice not to eat it.
In the old days of mankind...you'd be dead.

I respect your choice but you might want to get your facts straight first.

The olden days of tribes, when we were all brutes and savages? Times change. Many historical influencers in the past were torturers, homophobic, anti-women, murdering, and genocidal people.

To make an arguement from history with the morality of eating meat is kind of silly on your part. We are 1000x more civilized today and should act that way.

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
It's comical that many of the commenters here lambasting you as a moralizing soapbox-stander are precisely that in the political threads. Hypocrites.

Anyways, I eat meat but, like my ancestors, I like to say a little prayer to the dispatched animal before I do.

Something like "Thank you for giving your life to sustain mine. I will do my best with the strength you give me." That's my two bits.

Not sure where you get your meat from, but your prayers mean nothing if that animal's life was nothing but pain.

a reply to: Puppylove

Nonsense, vegans contribute nothing to factory farming and therefor create a positive impact toward animals. The world is not going to become vegan in one night... so that argument is silly.

Vegan bypass all needs to look for ethical meat sources by eating plants. If you want to find ethically raised sources for animals , be my guest. However, that takes time and not just looking at the "natural and free range" BS on many products.

If 30% of the world was vegan, that is 30% less need for meat, and less reason to create condensed farming. Especially if the number of concerned meat consumers rises.

Iv'e seen you post on vegan threads before, and for some reason you constantly post that you think they make no difference.

On the contrary, vegans constantly push for better animal conditions, more so than any group I've ever seen. Thank vegans for a partial contribution to the rise in concerns over ethical animal practices.

Or just keep your undeserved grudge towards vegans.

a reply to: blueman12

I don't have a grudge toward vegans, until they start getting all self-righteous, and I think that goes for most of us.

You guys tend to be as bad as the worst kind of religious zealot in many ways when it comes to espousing your cause. It's one thing to simply have a lifestyle, and most of us are fine with that. It's when you demand the world adapt to service you and the rest of us conform our lives to suit you that you start receiving pushback.

You can eat meat or not (and all the rest). I really don't give a rip. That's your choice, but when you start carrying on about how hard your life now is because of the rest of us and how we live our lives, well, you made your choice.