Russian Spy Poisoning Brings £48 Million Reward For Porton Down

a reply to: surfer_soul


Litvinenko died three weeks after being hospitalised.

It seem to be fooling plenty of posters on here so far!

Porton Down clearly needs more funding if foreign powers feel free to use nerve agents on British soil.

Now, David Kelly, there's a thing indeed. That really was a BS suicide and yes, I believe that he was indeed "offed" by our own. Blair has much blood on his hands.

And don't forget Diana.

a reply to: TrueBrit


I was thinking more along the lines of "Intelligence".

I wonder if the evidence that Russia was behind this is ill conceived. I wonder if that evidence has been purposely pointed at Russia and who is behind twisting evidence if it has been done. You cannot hire a fox to guard the henhouse.

a reply to: rickymouse


But you can have poacher turned gamekeeper?

a reply to: oldcarpy

Now, David Kelly, there's a thing indeed. That really was a BS suicide and yes, I believe that he was indeed "offed" by our own. Blair has much blood on his hands.

And don't forget Diana.

Yup David Kelly, Diana, Gareth Williams, Neil Haywood, Jill Dando the list goes on really

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


You suspicious thing, you!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

OtherSideOfTheCoin...

I know where you are coming from, and I appreciate your perspective and your candour on this.

However, what I would also say is that on the point of the UK being able to do a comparison by way of just having the data to compare, rather than a sample, that leads down a whole other route. Where did they get the data, is it legitimate, did they use that data to CREATE a sample in the lab (which is EXACTLY what I would do with that data if I were them)?

Another point to make there, is that its not just the samples themselves that Russia would have been keeping under tight, water and air tight control, but the data pertaining to the structure of the chemical agent too. Any and all data, written or diagrammatic, GCMS results for example, would have been as tightly restricted as the material itself, precisely because reverse engineering of nerve agents and bioweapons is a possibility. Porton Down has a reputation for creating nasties in the lab, then performing tests using them. Some of these tests are designed to examine the effectiveness of NBC defence apparatus, like hazardous material protective gear, the anti NBC elements of certain military vehicles, and to test anti-toxins for the various nerve agents and bio weapons out there, atropine for example. Other experiments are designed to test the capabilities of the chemicals and bio agents themselves.

If Britain knows about this agent, then they are going to use what they know to build defences against it, and that means having a sample to experiment with, to see what works to stop it and what does not, what its specific capabilities are, what methods are best to clean it up, what methods are best to prevent its transfer from surface to surface, and so on. So if they knew enough about it to be able to identify it, that means that they knew enough about it to have made some at some stage, and put it through the same testing they put everything else through.

Its kind of their job to do that. Its their whole gig.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree with much of what you are saying but none of it suggest that there is some grander conspiracy at play.

However, what I would also say is that on the point of the UK being able to do a comparison by way of just having the data to compare, rather than a sample, that leads down a whole other route. Where did they get the data, is it legitimate, did they use that data to CREATE a sample in the lab (which is EXACTLY what I would do with that data if I were them)?

Well we know that in 1999 the Americans and the OPCW were involved in decommissioning a chemical weapons plat that was believed to have been producing this stuff for the soviets. So it is entirely possible thats where they might have developed the ability to identify the agent.

The truth is that we don't know and probably will never know the exact specifics of how Proton Down identified this substance because to do so may compromise our intelligence in some respect. I do not deny that the that the UK might have a sample of this for testing. Even if they do such samples I think we would both agree would be kept securely and the government would probably do a better job of it.

If this was a false flag actually surly using polonium 210 would have been a better choice?

It all makes for a very interesting discussion but I think he truth is that we can only really speculate because the UK government are never going to give us full access to proton-down to find out how they work and figure stuff like this out.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I agree, we can only really speculate and we will never know the full workings of places like Porton.

a reply to: oldcarpy

You’re right about Litvinenko I must have been thinking of someone else with the 6 hours thing. I should have checked that before posting.

My point was “our” intelligence services don’t seem to beyond such a thing in the case of David Kelly. I personally think there is a shady and powerful group within our own government not dissimilar to the so called deep state that carried out that hit.

It could be the same group that are responsible for this case, or indeed the Russian mafia. Either way they I strongly suspect it was some rogue element and not a plot carried out by any government per se.

a reply to: surfer_soul

My point was “our” intelligence services don’t seem to beyond such a thing in the case of David Kelly. I personally think there is a shady and powerful group within our own government not dissimilar to the so called deep state that carried out that hit.

Believe it or not but the UK Government does have a framework in effect that permits state assignations.

During the inquest into the death of Diana the former head of SIS, Sir Richard Dearlove revealed that in the UK it is possible for the Foreign secretary to issue SIS with something called a Class Seven Authorisation that is in essence a kill order. The old spy did go on to testify that during his time working with SIS he had never seen or heard of such authorisation being given.

Also if you are interested in finding out about some shady powerful group with in the uk government look into groups like the Increment, Group 13, Blue Thunder or E-Squardon (who might actually now be the Increment or Blue Thunder, who knows)

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Interesting. You seem very knowledgeable about this stuff. Is 007 not a real thing, then?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Oh I don’t doubt it, 007 has a licence to kill right? But I seriously doubt our gov had a hand in or indeed ordered the death of Diana. I think that was carried out by powerful private persons. The black hand if you will. Which by the way have a great deal of real power and influence on governments the world over. But they need to carry out their agenda from behind curtain.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Interesting. You seem very knowledgeable about this stuff. Is 007 not a real thing, then?

Not really.

It has been claimed during the troubles with the IRA that the SAS were given a so-called license to kill republicans however this has always been denied despite numerous occasions where its been demonstrated that they were shooting first and asking questions later.

But the idea of a a Secret Agent assassin running about nocking off people against UK interests like James Bond is rubbish.

However, speaking of Bond, a few years ago SIS did actually advertise for a job that was essentially that of Q. I thought that was kind of cool.

a reply to: surfer_soul

I think that was carried out by powerful private persons.

When it comes to Diana I don't pretend to know what happened, I followed the inquest into her death closely and I personally do not believe that car crash was a accident but as to who was responsible for her death have no idea so you could very well be correct.

There's not been any poisoning of Skripal from russian operatives. In fact, he might not have been poisoned at all, according to the standard understanding of what poisoning is.

The sudden attempts to use this case to boost spending in chemical weapons by the UK or any other western clown will only lead to more embarrassing results for the west.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


You will be telling me next that they don't drive around in invisible Aston Martin Vanquish's.........

a reply to: Flanker86


Thanks, as always, for your clarification of matters. Case closed, ladies and gentlemen?

a reply to: TrueBrit

As I've said elsewhere; I'm not entirely convinced either way on this. Too many unknowns at the moment. However this:

The man is not yet dead, and anyone who has survived chemical attack for this long, has to have a better than zero chance of pulling through

is about the only thing I can really disagree with, or at least have a different view of.
If one were to survive an attack from a chemical weapon that targets the nervous system one is liable to be left drastically impaired, or never regain consciousness. So, for all intents and purposes, he may as well be dead, or it may end up being a living hell if he were to survive.

What do we have yet?
11 days ago Skripal and his daughter were found poisoned in a park in Salisbury, as we are told. Poisoned with a poison that should be ten times worse than VX, but both victims still live? I mean, i was afraid to die by reading what VX is, and the stuff Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with, the "russian superweapon", is allegedly ten times worse than VX. Hmm, curious, but i guess just a simple coincidence.

Hours later the west knew "to 100%" who the attacker was, for sure Russia, who else? Without any evidence, without any indications, but Russia did it. Every western MSM reported it, as often as possible. Again and again. The NATO is involves in that game, as the football world championships in Russia are(the participation of the brits), let´s not forget Haley at the UN some hours ago. The brits, the "U"S, the anglo-american wing of the western world knows everything, and that everything is: Russia did it!

Theresa May issued an ultimatum. Russia had to solve the case till midnight... Then Russia asked for a probe of the poison, to examine it. Would help to solve the case, maybe. Denied! Seems like the UK doesn´t want the case solved, because it were the Russians...

On her speech last tuesday she said with no word that the poison was made in Russia, or that Russia is the one and only owner of that poison worldwide.The only thing she said is that they know that this poison was created by a guy in Russia. And that Russia produced that neurotoxin in the past. Listen to her words as carefully as she used them:


We know that the "U"S maybe owns that poison since 1999:
Asia-Pacific US dismantles chemical weapons

A group of American defence experts have arrived in Uzbekistan to start helping the Uzbeks dismantle and decontaminate one of the former Soviet Union's largest chemical weapons testing facilities.

And we all know that the "U"S and the UK often share their dirty secrets, so it´s very possible that the UK owns that poison by itself.

That leads us to the next coincidence, Porton Down. And the Defence CBRN Centre. I bet several states are owners of that poison, thinking of that anglo-american western wing. More detailed statemets about the poison would be possible if the brits would give some more specific informations about that allegedly used warfare agent. But the request of the russians about that were brusquely denied by the brits.

Then we have the "Orbis File". When Skripal was "turned around" by the MI6 in 1995, this was achieved by Pablo Miller, who became Skripals commanding officer then. Coordinated obviously by Christopher Steele. Yes, that Christopher Steele! Who btw was the one in the Litvinenko case that, against the basis of the indications, said Russia would be the main suspect.

In 2009 Steele left the MI& and established his own "security company", the Orbis Business Intelligence. The main activity of Orbis Business Intelligence was (and still is!) to manufacture accusations against Russia. It was Orbis that got the order of a "private customer" to create "evidence" of the alleged russian interventions to influence the election campaigns of France, Italy, the UK and Germany, in the framework of www.newyorker.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Proje ct Charlemagne.

Fake News about russian troll armies, the russian financing of Le Pen, Berlusconi and the german AfD and moscows alleged plans to destroy the EU, all came from Orbis. And the western MSM used them like they use the SOHR or the White Helmets as "reliable sources" nowadays. I am not saying that russia isn´t financing european rightwingers, but why creating Fake News about the issue if there is real evidence to find out there?

Now we know that Skripal met several times with his former commanding officer, who works for the company that is the Nr1 in anti-Putin-propaganda. An interesting thing, imo. Why does the western MSM hide that little fact? Craig Murray says that leaves as only conclusion that Skripal worked for Orbis. Maybe he even worked at the "Trump Dossier".

Imo Miller, Steele and Orbis should be under investagtion, should be suspects too!

But i mentioned something, it seems to be not only tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists like me that have question. I guess it began on wendesday in the german news. Suddenly question were raised.
Like: Why should Russia do such an attack, right before Putins re-election and the football world championships in Russia? Why should Russia use a poison that is known as a "russian" poison? And that leave millions of "anti-russian" traces? Why didn´t the russians kill Skripal when in was in jail, in russia, but kill him in the UK later, leaving all kinds of traces? Why seem russian agents to act like stupid little childs again and again, only in the UK?

And not only at private news channel but even at our "Staasfunk", the normally transatlantic and party(SPD and CDU) controlled ARD and ZDF news. Maybe journalists found with some clicks what i found with some clicks and know the traces, the timing of the events, the alleged stupdity of the russian secret services and the new anti-russia hysteria and propaganda of the west can´t be coincidences.

Even Israel and it´s Mossad are on my list, some things the russians do in the ME is not of Israels interest!

And that makes the whole thing look as if the ones who profits most now, with their renewed anti-russia behaviour, cold war behaviour, the anglo-american axis could be the perpetrator. Or it is like what Theresa May accused the russians of, she said that the russians maybe lost control over their secret services, or similiar. But maybe the anglo-american west lost his control of his troll army? And this troll army is creating attacks now, that lead all to russia?

Sorry for my english and the wall of text, but i am fed to the backteeth of the MSM, of the exaggerated western anti-russia, anti Putin propaganda. That often is so stupid because it is obvisiously just anti-russia propaganda and every can feel it, doens´t believe the crap anymore. As a westerner i have to say that the behaviour of the abglo-american axis provokes russia wherever it is possible. I can see it, we, the western population outside of the anglo-american axis are able to see it, to feel it. These axis wants, needs a war obvisiously more than anything else on earth.

After NK wasn´t stupid enough, Iran wasn´t stupid enough, now it´s Russia again. Come on western hardliners, falcons, warmongerers and your MSM(and even there you lose control maybe, as i described before), even a blind one can see the game you try to play. You do everything for the old cold warrior farts to have neverending cold war. But we Europeans don´t want to suffer from a stupid and unnecessary war that you started because of your own profits. And we would have to suffer first! Don´t push us into a war with Russia, a war that nobody here wants and needs, based on lies, false accusations etc!