What does "gun control" mean at this point?

a reply to: Wayfarer

In my opinion those things are goofy. I understand the fun factor but if there was a semi-auto special permit requirement...those would also fall under that too. I am pro 2nd Amendment, but I do understand our dilema of late and some compromise is probably what is going to work in t he end.If a semi auto permit never goes anywhere then I think fire-rate enhancers should at least require a special permit

Just my thoughts. Do not like too many permits, ironically, but again...compromise may help. Don't know for sure until it is tried.

originally posted by: ronjer
a reply to: Wayfarer

In my opinion those things are goofy. I understand the fun factor but if there was a semi-auto special permit requirement...those would also fall under that too. I am pro 2nd Amendment, but I do understand our dilema of late and some compromise is probably what is going to work in t he end.If a semi auto permit never goes anywhere then I think fire-rate enhancers should at least require a special permit

Just my thoughts. Do not like too many permits, ironically, but again...compromise may help. Don't know for sure until it is tried.

That would seem like a reasonable compromise approach since the spirit of the permitting is to safeguard against access to fully automatic type capabilities being easy to procure.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I went and looked.

To be honest with you it looks like a lot of fun. Expensive, but fun. That is a lot of ammunition.

Again, its essentially using physics and a reinforced, thick glove to do it. Technically it still falls under 1 shot per trigger pull. They have just minimized pull delay. I think you basically have to ban all modification capabilities to prevent someone from finding a way to achieveve faster fire. Even then, some people have trained themselves to trigger pull inhumanly fast and you can't reasonably outlaw that.

I think we need better fixes for the root problems, I don't believe banning these things will achieve anything really useful.

originally posted by: Thanatos0042
a reply to: Wayfarer

I went and looked.

To be honest with you it looks like a lot of fun. Expensive, but fun. That is a lot of ammunition.

Again, its essentially using physics and a reinforced, thick glove to do it. Technically it still falls under 1 shot per trigger pull. They have just minimized pull delay. I think you basically have to ban all modification capabilities to prevent someone from finding a way to achieveve faster fire. Even then, some people have trained themselves to trigger pull inhumanly fast and you can't reasonably outlaw that.

I think we need better fixes for the root problems, I don't believe banning these things will achieve anything really useful.

I kind of figured that the old belt loop trick or some janky DIY wood plank thing isn't quite the same as a bump stock or auto-trigger-glove just because your ability to aim the weapon in any useful sense is severely hampered (though I suppose there's some debate over how much aiming is actually done in full auto fire scenarios).

a reply to: Wayfarer

When it comes to full auto fire the phrase "spray and pray" has true meaning. The main use of it is for suppressive fire so you can better get people into more advantageous positions for a firefight or you want to fire into a sea of bodies with the only goal to be spreading chaos or terror.

I will have to do some reading tonight to see if I can find information on how accurate it all is, but by definition no full auto fire is very accurate.

You know, to me, the subject of gun control is harkening back to the days of Napster. It changed EVERYTHING. It opened Pandoras Box and showed that everything can change and laws and rules must adapt. By and by the majority of people want to be legal and want it to things to be intuitive and easy to understand or comply wi th.

With the introduction of free flow information on the internet and D-Y-I inexpensive hardware, 3D printers, etc. Making ghost guns, turning semi-automatic firearms into full automatics, etc. Our leaders really need to think in new and innovative ways to fix american culture and social issues and figure out what they can reasonably control and enforce.

originally posted by: Thanatos0042
a reply to: Wayfarer


With the introduction of free flow information on the internet and D-Y-I inexpensive hardware, 3D printers, etc. Making ghost guns, turning semi-automatic firearms into full automatics, etc. Our leaders really need to think in new and innovative ways to fix american culture and social issues and figure out what they can reasonably control and enforce.

Christ I hadn't even thought of 3D home printing. You're right, it'll take a whole paradigm shift to find a solution in this brave new future...

a reply to: Wayfarer

Exactly. I work in tech and i know a couple of people who have printed 3D firearms. Now, even i find that a bit scary. Should that be banned? I don't know, but i still hold my belief banning is very rarely a good answer or accomplishes anything.

And I am the first to admit I'm not brilliant enough nor wise enough to really have a good solution that protects the 2nd Amendment and addresses the concerns of those who want strong gun control.

My worry is our leadership isn't going to be able to shift so much they will be able deal with all this new tech coming down the pipe.

a reply to: Thanatos0042

What one man can build, another man can dismantle. The human mind is competitive and is constantly looking to build the better mouse trap. That is why this whole argument is futile or just plain disingenuous, if the true goal is safety or saving lives.

If guns were as effective as they are trying to make us to believe, they never would have invested so much time and money in nuclear, scalar, and other types of weaponry. There is something else afoot. We really shouldn't allow ourselves to get this distracted.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

That is true, what can be built can be torn down and the human mind and spirit is very competitive.

As for your second point, I still believe that guns are effective. The investment in bigger arms is actually logical and makes sense, because people have ALWAYS been trying to invent better, more effective and more destructive ways to kill other people lol

and yes, I do agree something else is afoot...and that we as a people are easily distracted and both of those things are not good.

The cause of all this is simple, PAGERS. No you say "Huh". History lesson. Prior to the invention of the pager your only way to contact someone was if they were near a phone that you had the number. Pagers were first used by business person's to stay in contact with their office, doctors and such. Once made cheaper others began using them. Then pager companies advertised them as a way for parents to keep track of their kids. Kids learned to carry dead batteries so they could get away with ignoring mom's page (my battery is dead, I didn't get it). With the pager was born texting, one/zero/one became lol, numbers became messages and so on. Parents started paying less direct attention to their kids, and the one up concept began to take over. (Can you believe that Jonny is STILL using last months technology?) The cordless phone then allowed kids to go outside to talk to friends so mom and dad couldn't hear them. The home computer, internet and cell phones created an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. Kids began to hate dad's job because he didn't make enough money, causing child/parent gap to grow. Kids learned from each other (I hate my dad because he won't buy me the new 'whatever'.) Kids started thinking they were better than others because my daddy makes more money. How dare you try to sit next to me, you're poor. One kid grew up thinking their special. They had kids who now think they have a right to do 'whatever'. The other one grew up a hater. Hating the parents, the snob kids, and the system in general. That hate was passed on to their kids. Trouble is that these kids all have access to the internet. One can use it to bully what they see as the less important kids, and the other can use it to learn how to make a bomb.

So you see the pager is to blame. Because with its invention parents began to take a less active roll in their kids lives.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: network dude

I too wonder what is going through people's minds. Its like we took a giant leap backwards. All I hear on the news now is about banning assault rifles. Its almost a Mandela effect in that no one seems to understand that the AR15 is not an assault rifle. I hear one after another referring to the AR15 as a weapon of war and a military assault rifle. Which makes no sense when you consider that not one organized military force uses the AR15. Its just a civilian issue semi-auto rifle. Nothing more.....

I'm actually genuinely curious how the AR-15 differs from its military counterpart the M-16 (aside from the selective fire option found on the M-16's). Would you mind educating us?

I am sorry I didn't see this sooner.

There is a ton of information out there regarding the differences but in short:

The fire control group (trigger, selector, hammer, disconnector and auto sear) are the difference. The M16 has the auto sear and trigger pin that allows for full auto fire where the AR15 does not. Some rifles can also fire a three shot burst which is similar to the full auto with the addition of a cam that disengages auto fire after the third shot. The upper receivers are similar. The differences will be in the lower.

The other important issue here is the legality. For a select fire option rifle you need to have a class 3 tax stamp and a rifle manufactured before the 1968 machine gun ban. Furthermore, any AR15 that has incorporated into it any parts from the M16 fire control group is considered fully automatic - even if it isn't - and will get you some jail time. I would have to do some checking, but as far as I know, just having the trigger assembly or parts for a full auto rifle will get you jail time if you do not have the class 3 tax stamp.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

No. There is case law about that last bit. You can possess the parts and it doesn't constitute you having a machine gun.

Also, if I recall it depends on what m16 parts you have mixed with your AR15 as to whether you violate the law or not.

originally posted by: Thanatos0042
a reply to: Vroomfondel

No. There is case law about that last bit. You can possess the parts and it doesn't constitute you having a machine gun.

Also, if I recall it depends on what m16 parts you have mixed with your AR15 as to whether you violate the law or not.

Any part of the trigger group will get you in jail, whether it is in or out of a gun. Just owning it is illegal.

The only receiver part of an M16 you can incorporate into an AR15 is the bolt. The bolt does not and can not make the AR fully automatic. As such it is not susceptible to the 1968 legislation.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

That doesn't fit with the information I've found online concerning the laws and regulations.

Though one thing people do seem to agree on is unless you can legally own a full auto, its best to steer clear of owning some parts. The BATF doesn't play nice about it.

originally posted by: Thanatos0042
a reply to: Vroomfondel

That doesn't fit with the information I've found online concerning the laws and regulations.

Though one thing people do seem to agree on is unless you can legally own a full auto, its best to steer clear of owning some parts. The BATF doesn't play nice about it.

There was a report by Bushmaster not long ago that was proven inaccurate. There was a report by Bushmaster in which they stated the bolt from an M16 used in an AR15 will get you arrested but that report was proven to be inaccurate. The bolt has nothing to do with the rifle being fully automatic and is not part of the class 3 parts group.

No, that wasn't it...I'll try to find it again and post it for you.

Sorry. I knew I should have bookmarked it, but I was on my phone and...I am so awkward when I internet on my phone. Old eyes, small screen and fat fingers lol

a reply to: Thanatos0042

No problem. I am the same with the phones. I would like to see it though it you can find it. Thanks for looking.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Sorry it took me so long to make my way back around towards this, it was a busy week and I just lacked the energy to do it lol.

Oh and regarding the bolt and bushmaster thing...never heard of that before.

I never found the link I was looking for and I'm thinking I msiread something or misremembered (which is a lot more likely in my case)...anyway, it's late and I didn't want you to think I forgot or was being rude. I'll post more later