UFOs and the Technology - An Occult Perspective

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Unfortunately, I don't have much to offer other than thanks for an interesting thread and a neat map of reality.

I just wanted an easy way to check in!

Whether the map is accurate or not, it's at the least cohesive and aesthetically well executed!

Cartography is one of the noblest endeavors.

a reply to: Baddogma

Cheers for the thoughts Baddogma.

Cartography is one of the noblest endeavors.

I think so too, and making a map is what I hope I've done.

I used to be a student of the occult mysteries and those schools of thought are like maps. But I reckon the groups are like tourist operators, they give you maps of where they want you to go and the people who want to sell you something.

If you want to see the real places and meet the real local folk you gotta throw away the tourist guides and go off the beaten track.

I hope I've given a map that others can follow, it might not be accurate but as long as others can follow, they can make a better map.

The door is between two thoughts . . .

a reply to: Kandinsky

'day Kandinsky

One tenet of my understanding of the mysteries and liminal phenomena is reflection.

When anyone 'gazes into the abyss,' they are typically met with a reflection of their inner belief systems. In my opinion, it makes us poor reporters and even worse analysts. We can't rise above the associations and memes that are buried deep within our psyches and are steeped in the cultures that raised us. Looking around us we can see others who publish books and videos about their explanations and there's an outstanding amount of diversity in those beliefs.

I had to look up the word "liminal" .

In anthropology, liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning "a threshold"[1]) is the quality of ambiguity or disorientation that occurs in the middle stage of rituals, when participants no longer hold their pre-ritual status but have not yet begun the transition to the status they will hold when the ritual is complete. During a ritual's liminal stage, participants "stand at the threshold"[2] between their previous way of structuring their identity, time, or community, and a new way, which the ritual establishes.

Source: wikipaedia

I understand now, Rosicrucian say "standing on the threshold" and the "abyss" comes up in the teachings.

But isnt that's a occidental psychological view?

I say that knowing the ancient Greeks were ones for building frameworks (philosophies) within which we are taught to think. Containers if you will.

A lot of western initiatory systems follow the Greek mould of thinking. Probably because it works so well on occidental moulded thought.

Now, wouldn't that suggest the interior infrastructure of an egregore? One of those places where transcendance is taught?

If one considers the boundary of self to be a surface, then like a pond we have to learn to see past what is reflected to what is beyond. I sit here on my verandah and see the trees reflected in the window glass, yet I can look past to see the curtains.

But from my own home grown point of view, I know that my framework of thought will have an impact on how I interpret things I perceive.

I'm of a grandfatherly age, I like kids and am a hopeless romantic at heart. I'm also an Aussie, and the Aussie spirit is to cheer for the battlers and cut down tall poppies.

("Battlers" being people who have to work hard at life, and "tall poppies" being smart-arse rich folk and celebrities. Drive a Roles Royce here in ol' Aussie and folk won't think much of you.)

So when I see another awareness in trouble, that invokes my predispositions and my protective instincts and the emotional responses. Basically, I get upset and protective of them and out to belt the living daylights out of whoever hurt the awareness.

That sets up a relationship basis where there is an emotional exchange between me and the other awareness. The awareness is generally really happy that someone can provide a solution to their predicament and at the same time having a bit of a breakdown because the suffering will finally end.

Many of my most wonderful moments have been in the midst of the most harrowing of situations.

It's good to struggle with ways of expressing the clusters and networks of impressions in our minds. You've gone for 'between-world' and I went for 'Folk from Elsewhere.' Whilst neither phrase really nails down what we mean, they are evidence of contemplation. One doesn't suddenly decide to say 'between-world' without having eliminated scores of other phrases that didn't quite fit the job. For me, 'folk' could apply to entities, machine elves, thought-forms, 'ghosts' and even sentient technologies that exemplify Clarke's Third Law. It's a pluralistic term too which implies more than a Oneness. The 'Elsewhere' arises from the observation that these speculative realms and intelligences exist beyond a veil for want of a better word.

Yep, either way works.

. . . . and "folk" and "neighbors" is nice and friendly. Our choise our words will often set us up and we perceive accordingly.

Thinking of the neighbors as "entities" or "daemons" is a sure way to annoy them and it shouldn't be a surprise to get a prank pulled in return. Scientists are avoided like the plague for how they think of others.

Being "dissected by a mind" is not a nice thing to experience. I would think it to be like a woman "being undressed by a mind".

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You are as offensive as a speaker who attributes communication and mobility as the defining characteristics of a sentient person, before noticing the non-communicative handicap who was wheeled into the auditorium for the pure joy of human company.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Howdy WTT,

Yeah liminal is a handy term in these discussions. For me, it tends to mean a state of uncertainty with a similar value to your between-world. In UFO terms it's also kinda like a deferred certainty in the sense some of us set out expecting a destination and only found a path. We're chasing will 'o the wisps, right? They're always just out of reach, just around the next bend and, perhaps, on the tip of our tongue.

Sure, it could be an 'occidental psychological view' to say 'abyss' and 'liminal.' The possibility supports my main contention that the subject is reflective. We interpret through our own experiences and frame the debate using terms that are familiar. For instance, the early ufologists were military folk who related to UFO reports in aerospace terms (nuts n bolts). Jung went in and saw psychological projections of mythic anxiety. Vallee's used computer terminology and his background is computer science. Jim Oberg's background is NASA and he views UFO reports in terms of Russian rockets. I won't labour the point because I'm sure you already get it. We see ourselves.

Now, wouldn't that suggest the interior infrastructure of an egregore? One of those places where transcendance is taught?

If one considers the boundary of self to be a surface, then like a pond we have to learn to see past what is reflected to what is beyond. I sit here on my verandah and see the trees reflected in the window glass, yet I can look past to see the curtains.

I like the idea of an egregore; it's a concept/term I can work with. Some might argue that having an extraordinary experience is itself 'a teachable moment' that invokes the potential for transcendence. Perhaps transcendence is also the process of moving one's mind towards the liminal? Your pond metaphor works as well if we see an anomalous experience as encouragement to see beyond the pond's surface.

That sets up a relationship basis where there is an emotional exchange between me and the other awareness. The awareness is generally really happy that someone can provide a solution to their predicament and at the same time having a bit of a breakdown because the suffering will finally end.

You get out what you put in. This, I think, follows with the reflective thing again. This isn't specifically aimed in your direction and is more of an overall observation I've distilled from years of experience. It often seems that people's interpretation of 'between-world' lends an insight into their minds too.

Examples? Dr David Jacobs believes in evil aliens abducting victims and messing with their minds. Later on he was found to be in abusive relationships with abductees and messing with their minds via hypnosis. There's a darkness there. In contrast, John E Mack interpreted 'abduction' as something wonderful and transcendental - he had a lightness. Jacobs' 'emotional exchange' introduced more trauma whereas Mack's dynamic improved the psyche and made the 'experiencer' feel lucky and special.

A clearer way of framing it is to use the ancient Indian parable of The Blind Men and the Elephant.

. . . . and "folk" and "neighbors" is nice and friendly. Our choise our words will often set us up and we perceive accordingly.

Take people as you find them and don't assume ill-intent. Until we know otherwise, 'neighbours' is about as neutral as it gets. To extend your previous analogy of the 'city state,' it's likely that some of the 'neighbours' can be dangerous. As you can possibly tell, I'm agnostic and very much 'liminal.'

occupying a position at, or on both sides of, a boundary or threshold.

a reply to: Kandinsky

egregore

That's an interesting word. What does it mean to you? I'm interested in your viewpoint on it.

a reply to: brokenghost

To be fair, it's not a word that sits in my vocabulary. I've been using it as a lingua franca with the OP who holds a stronger conception of it. It'll take more time before it coalesces into something more definitive in my mind.

What does it mean to you?

a reply to: Kandinsky

I heard it somewhere a while ago, on a video. Bryan or something, I believe it's a thought form that controls mankind through their crystal brain.

a reply to: brokenghost

Archons, angels, djinn, hungry ghosts, grey aliens, the Muses, Watchers.

Seems like people also see it as a singular connection between close-knit or like-minded groups. It's that one that I can relate to.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I think, if we were to sit down and have a conversation about this, it would be one of the most intriguing ones in recent memory for me. I enjoy talking about this topic, more than most.

Watchers are another intrigue of mine.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I see you cited the adjective form of liminal where its definition is that of a physical/spacial state of occupying both sides of a boundary.

To a mathematician that would be like x=0, x= ∞, thus 0= ∞, nothing is equivalent to everything.

A quantum physicist would probably interpret that to be like entanglement and non locality being interconnected via a quantum field.

An information scientist (Vallee) would probably see it as the information contained in a system that exists beyond (or between) two (or more) separate dimensions.

A Buddhist would just call it primordial consciousness, the omnipresent stream of consciousness that exists outside of time and the physical.

But then there's the other definition:

relating to a transitional or initial stage of a process.

I think to a magician that could only mean that the language used to define a psychic phenomenon will have causal efficacy over the phenomenon itself, thus determining (by measuring in the finite) that the information contained within a name or gematric value directly affects, if not completely determines, the mechanism for which this magical entity/force will travel from the non physical 'subjective' into the physical dimensions where matter is an objective state of mind.

Uh, actually, I think I confused myself while writing this. I'm going to go and read the rest of this OP because it looks pretty promising.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

'day KPB,

Now.. the real challenge.. can you take all that stuff.. and make it do something in
the real world.

Until you or I or any of us do that,

even if it were perfectly true..

it's useless.

Well that depends on what you mean by ". . . make it do something in this world."

If you mean like act directly, well no, I can't directly affect the world we live in such as turn lead into gold or manifest something out of thin air.

If I could change the weather my district would have thrice as much summer rain. But it doesn't : (

No, I can't act directly.

However I suspect that the acting directly might be a well kept secret. If Qabbalists on the inner can manifest or translocate a little black dress in this world, who knows what can be achieved.

When I was tracking serial killers, a black dress appeared in my household, it was hanging on the washing line one morning and came in with the dry clothes. No one knew where it came from. No homeless girl living under the house doing her washing when no one is home, no one recognised it, not even friends and their kids. Had it hanging in the house for two weeks hoping an owner would grab it.

Now a black dress can mean a funeral. It can also refer to the victims of the serial killers. There is no nice way to interpret a black dress appearing on your washing line in a small country town where mostly older folks live. We also have a big black German Shepard loose in the backyard.

So a "back off" or something like that.

Anyways, tracked it back to a certain group of Rabbi's, Kabbalists. A group of six.

It has taken the best part of ten years to piece that together and work out the how, why and who.

Now getting rid of those guys might just save a few innocent girls in the future who can go on to have a family and grow old with someone they love.

That is an action that takes place on the inner planes which has an indirect effect in this world.

Now one can say that the old black vs white duality is an endless battle. But this is not quite the case. Those deceased guys who did the black magic (BM) stuff to cause harm and suffering took a long time to train, more then just a few lives lived on earth. It was durring the time of the inquisition (reference to pentagram) that the Rabbi's (reference to six pointed star) moved in as an authority over the BMs.

It took a thousand years at least to get those BMs working as a cohesive group.

So for me, the potential of saving a few kids is worth the trouble for me. I gotta find something useful to do in the afterlife, hunting those guys is one option.

The other indirect action of writing here on ATS is to bring into the open the prospect of meeting the neighbors. In particular the technology of the past. The technology knows what cruelty, captivity and slavery is like. The horrors of control and not having a future. They know what that is like so they are not interested in taking over the world. Quite the opposite.

Everyone needs a home, humans, nature-spirits, animals, plants, and the living technology of the past too.

Who knows where the introduction of a wild card into human development will go.

Personally I think it can achieve something wonderful and maybe find solutions for a lot of mistakes we have made.

The Hindu's say the end of the Kali Yuga is at hand. The Kali Yuga being the age of daemons.

There is hope yet ; )

Down to earth? But this is the philosophy and metaphysics forum . . . . . we can talk about all sorts of stuff and compare notes even.

originally posted by: AdKiller
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You are as offensive as a speaker who attributes communication and mobility as the defining characteristics of a sentient person, before noticing the non-communicative handicap who was wheeled into the auditorium for the pure joy of human company.

compared to my old spiritual teacher, I'm a sleeping lamb.
I hope to do as much good as he did some day.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

'Day my friend.

When one begins "deep meditation", one starts to dig up all this stuff.

In the way of the mystic, who presumably is looking for the divine / transcendence,
the young (or old) aspirant is instructed to ignore the demons and devas.

But you are a magician.

Instead of ignoring them, while looking for something greater,

you have fed them "energy" and organized them!

That's what magicians do.

I'm not saying that's wrong.

I'ts a different practice, with a different goal.

Magicians and mystics both become trapped by their practice.

Please thank about that,

and think about it again,

when you respond to defend your self-generated egregore.

Yours,

Kev

I have also seen this “in-between” world in my dreams and waking life a few times.
Although these visions seem to be a gift and I currently cannot induce them on my own.
How do you come into conscious contact with this other world?
a reply to: Whatsthisthen

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

So I just found a .pdf copy of
Meditations on the Tarot that is available for free download. I've been reading it for the past hour.


My educated guess is that the original document was written by Eliphas Levi and published in 1985 (hundreds of years after the death of Levi) by William Eisen.

This would make sense because Eisen's two part masterpiece The English Qabalah was a collection of unfinished theses by Agasha (assuming Agasha was in fact a real person) and only edited by Eisen so as to make it more comprehensible in the present, then published in 1985 by Anonymous (check the gematria on that word btw).

If the Ancients knew the secrets of creating life and grew living machines,

Where do the machines go when they die?

We are those machines. Ancient people knew the secret of life and pass that knowledge. They also knew how to transcend beyond the material world. Occultist know this secret knowledge and they are always looking for students. Is a thought that been always in my head: How they could see in such small scale. The more I study the more I realize that there are things still hidden from the people. I myself have seen glimpses of the other side, the deeper I go the more I realize I'm just scratching the surface.

a reply to: ColdWisdom

Howdy friend

I see you cited the adjective form of liminal where its definition is that of a physical/spacial state of occupying both sides of a boundary.

You're right, but I also couched it as being a state of uncertainty. It's hard to to achieve clarity when discussing speculative ideas about hypothetical phenomena. It's apt to give a person a headache.

The paragraph that confused you has confused me too.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Well, basically I was saying that the name we give a (psychic) phenomenon will affect how it manifests itself.

So just like you said, Vallee describes the UFO phenomenon in quantitative terms because he is an information scientist. Oberg uses the language of an astrophysicist... and so on.

The big take away from all that is, the way we define a paranormal entity will affect our capacity to perceive it. Therefor the language we use acts as a veil, limiting our experience of the phenomenon so that we only get some of the data as opposed to all of it.

Imagine someone sneaking up behind you to tickle you, imagine the sensation of being tickled. Once you see the person coming to tickle you, your instinct is to tense up.

Anticipation affects Perception. If you expect a UFO to be extraterrestrials, you will experience the UFO as an extraterrestrial. If you have no defined expectations, meaning you have intentionally reserved judgement, then theoretically you have the capacity to experience the phenomenon for what it is (or at the very least, you're not boxing the phenomenon in).