Cliven Bundy walks free as federal judge dismisses Bundy Ranch standoff case

originally posted by: Boadicea

Wow! Really? That would be refreshing -- to say the least! And coming from you, it gives me some hope.

What does that mean, coming from me? Apparently you only pay selective attention to things that I comment about (not that I expect you to stalk my posts or anything)--I'm a huge advocate of an honest and fair judicial system that indicts and tries cases based on the letter of the law and proper prescribed procedures.

If that happened, it would provide ample protections for the accused and actually provide a fair trial and ability for jurors to deliberate. What we have now is a corrupted system--I know first hand, as like I remind some people, the federal judicial system is my day job.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

What does that mean, coming from me? Apparently you only pay selective attention to things that I comment about...

Whoa! No need to pull out the big guns!!! I meant it in the absolute best sense...

...I'm a huge advocate of an honest and fair judicial system that indicts and tries cases based on the letter of the law and proper prescribed procedures.

Exactly!!! I have my opinions (as you well know) based on my own understanding of things... and you have the real world knowledge and experience that I lack. So I can say, "They should throw the book at him," but it means nothing in the final analysis. But when you say, "They will probably throw the book at him" -- I'm paraphrasing obviously -- then it does mean something.

So when I say that it "means something" coming from you, it's respect. Nothing more and nothing less.

...(not that I expect you to stalk my posts or anything)...

No worries there! I'm too ADHD to effectively stalk anyone

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Boadicea


This is excellent news. Any time the oppressive federal government gets its ass handed to it, its a good day.

Yup! Chalk one up for the good guys

FBI hasn't been dissolved yet? They aren't needed. We waste far too much money arming these monkeys, who thanks to J. Edgar Hoover (and likely trumped up concerns about "organized crime" - maybe false flags even) became "real" law enforcement officers vs. investigators.

I don't necessarily disagree -- there is a very big difference between investigators and enforcers. I'm not sure why the FBI couldn't have remained investigators and the Federal Marshalls remained the enforcers.

But I also have to say that there is nothing special or unique about the FBI in that any agency, including law enforcement agencies on any level, can be corrupted and hijacked. Hence the need for our eternal vigilance.

The FBI has accomplished much good for the nation and for all of us in its history, and that happened because of really awesome men (and women) who did the right thing for the right reason. And I have no doubt there are still good FBI agents out there who want to do the right thing -- the best thing -- and do it to the best of their ability every day. And thank Heaven for them... just imagine how much worse it would be without them!

And I'll go out on a limb here and say that if there is really a "Trump Effect," I believe we're seeing it in the number of federal employees/agents turning whistleblower. Dan Love's reign of terror is over in large part because his fellow employees/agents were willing to talk. It would seem that the FBI agent in Oregon who shot at Finicum's truck prematurely was charged (at least in part) due to fellow agents willing to talk. These folks are unsung heroes. For too long, would-be whistleblowers have been shut up for too long by the PTB. Whether it's Trumps promises to drain the swamp, or maybe they're just done playing the game, good folks are stepping forward and speaking up and standing their ground. God bless 'em one and all.

I believe that designation should be stripped. We don't need the federal government arresting ANY citizens on their own. Besides, government is so incompetent/overspread that local assets ALWAYS make up the bulk of federal task forces. These local assets don't need federal government supervising them.

Indeed. And in purely practical terms, the more local the government, the more responsive it must be to its citizens -- and that's always a plus.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Boadicea

Wow! Really? That would be refreshing -- to say the least! And coming from you, it gives me some hope.

What does that mean, coming from me? Apparently you only pay selective attention to things that I comment about (not that I expect you to stalk my posts or anything)--I'm a huge advocate of an honest and fair judicial system that indicts and tries cases based on the letter of the law and proper prescribed procedures.

If that happened, it would provide ample protections for the accused and actually provide a fair trial and ability for jurors to deliberate. What we have now is a corrupted system--I know first hand, as like I remind some people, the federal judicial system is my day job.

It is one thing for us to complain about the federal government being corrupt. It is an entirely different level to have actual employees of that institution echoing those sentiments. It warms my heart to know there are still good voices/minds left in the federal judiciary, and it makes me think these institutions might just make it through this better off than they started out

originally posted by: [post=23029218]Boadicea[/post

Whoa! No need to pull out the big guns!!! I meant it in the absolute best sense...

I was kind of responding tongue-in-cheek, too, so no harm, no foul. I assumed that you weren't meaning it in a rude way.

Exactly!!! I have my opinions (as you well know) based on my own understanding of things... and you have the real world knowledge and experience that I lack. So I can say, "They should throw the book at him," but it means nothing in the final analysis. But when you say, "They will probably throw the book at him" -- I'm paraphrasing obviously -- then it does mean something.

So when I say that it "means something" coming from you, it's respect. Nothing more and nothing less.

Please, don't give me too much credit here. Yes, I know a lot about the judicial system and many of its procedures and details, but I'm by no means an expert. I do, however, try to refrain from speaking my comments out of ignorance, so the fact that you give me that respect is much appreciated, even when we differ in opinion on so many other things.

Best wishes and regards

I'm too ADHD to effectively stalk anyone

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I was kind of responding tongue-in-cheek, too, so no harm, no foul. I assumed that you weren't meaning it in a rude way.

Whew! Good to hear! The truth is, I love your posts -- whether I agree or not, whether I like the info you give me or not. Because you do give good real world information in a way that I can understand. I don't like echo chambers. I can tell myself how oh-so-smart I am and pat myself on the back -- if that's what I wanted. But I much prefer the challenge to my own beliefs and opinions and "truths." It's really a challenge to me... can I back it up or not? Is it always true or just true in my head? The eternal dilemma!

a reply to: JBurns

Not to bring your hope down a few notches, but even though I'm in the upper GS level, I'm not management, and I'm certainly not an executive. I know as a general fact from first-hand experience that we're not always moving in the right direction as far as protecting the rights of the average citizen.

While I work directly with the federal judiciary system, I'm part of one of the executive alphabet agencies (one of the worst ones, IMO, but I think that I've only admitted which one maybe once on ATS) that investigates crimes and aids in prosecution. In having this job, I must travel from time to time on cases, and one time I went to Riverside, CA, where we drove all the way in to meet with AUSAs in Los Angeles concerning a RICO case that enveloped the Mexican Mafia.

The amount of corruption that these AUSAs were telling me that goes on in Los Angeles County by judges, defense attorneys, law enforcement, and (I'm sure, but it wasn't mentioned) prosecutors and judges, just left me with a stupefied look on my face. My brain was saying, "You're the goddam prosecutors...if you know this, you should be indicting these people." My mouth stayed shut, though...I kind of wish that it hadn't, but that wasn't my place to say that to the AUSAs at the time.

They talked about purposeful evidence tampering, willful acceptance of bribes by LEOs and judges, and even worse things. It really, REALLY shook my faith in the judicial system--and it still does. I'm just armed with enough information about it to know when something is done correctly and when there are actual shenanigans happening.

But keep the faith, even if it's hard.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I'm part of one of the executive alphabet agencies (one of the worst ones, IMO, but I think that I've only admitted which one maybe once on ATS)

Great. Now we have to go comb through your post history.

Great example of wy privilege,

WHITE PRIVILEGE

originally posted by: Spider879
Great example of wy privilege,

What the hell is "Wyoming privilege?"

originally posted by: Spider879
Great example of wy privilege,

originally posted by: magnetik
WHITE PRIVILEGE

That's really sad that's all you can see here. And I can only assume that you really don't know the situation and issues involved.

There was no "privilege" -- White or otherwise -- for the Bundys and the many many others who have been bullied and beaten by Federal agents/agencies. It's all about abuse of power. The same abuse of power used against so many people of all shapes, sizes and colors in so many ways.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Spider879
Great example of wy privilege,

originally posted by: magnetik
WHITE PRIVILEGE

That's really sad that's all you can see here. And I can only assume that you really don't know the situation and issues involved.

There was no "privilege" -- White or otherwise -- for the Bundys and the many many others who have been bullied and beaten by Federal agents/agencies. It's all about abuse of power. The same abuse of power used against so many people of all shapes, sizes and colors in so many ways.

Well said sir

This is entirely about a group of citizens taking on the "almighty powerful" federal government and winning. They didn't just win tactically either, by forcing federal agents to tuck tail and retreat in the face of a superior fighting force. But they won strategically, setting several pretty significant precedents by walking free.

Can the government bring them to trial again? Of course. But at some point (especially after all this prosecutorial/investigative "misconduct" - ie: intentional corruption/violation), this will turn into harassment and malicious prosecution and given their track record so far, the Bundy crew will chump the feds once again.

It is disheartening to see so many things framed as racial issues, dividing the country exactly how TPTB want it divided. As long as we're too busy fighting each other, we'll never tackle the real issues that are ruining this country. It isn't about liberals vs. conservatives, left vs. right, white vs. black either. It has everything to do with the fact a CEO makes 319 times as much as the average employee, while the minimum wage stagnated for decades around $5.00/hour. And everything to do with a currency that is constantly devalued by a government that doesn't know how to save a cent (in fact, they've spent trillions more than they had, footing the bill squarely on the American people. An entity that constantly encroaches on our God-given Constitutional rights, in the same of "safety" or some other BS reason they falsely say is "in our best interest." They want nothing more than for the populace to forget the origins of this great nation, and bow to the power they've usurped from us over the years.

Starting with a fair and independent grand jury system, this country is in desperate need of significant overhaul/reform. We can bring that reform about, even in my lifetime yet. I have no doubt that future generations who fight for the cause of freedom will prevail. Yet I am concerned by the tendency for all of us to fall for disinformation/propaganda campaigns so easily, which are only designed to divide and conquer.

I will say this much. If the people of this country joined together and tackled the true issues facing us, we'd have these fires stamped out within months.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Spider879
Great example of wy privilege,

originally posted by: magnetik
WHITE PRIVILEGE

That's really sad that's all you can see here. And I can only assume that you really don't know the situation and issues involved.

There was no "privilege" -- White or otherwise -- for the Bundys and the many many others who have been bullied and beaten by Federal agents/agencies. It's all about abuse of power. The same abuse of power used against so many people of all shapes, sizes and colors in so many ways.

I respectfully disagree, these guys pointed guns in LEO's faces, imagine an AA group or a group with an Islamic sounding name , you honestly believe it would had ended as it did..be 100% With me now, and this is regardless of whether you think they were in the right or wrong in the first place.

Yet a vast proportion of people(primarily leftists) still consider him and his peers terrorist.

Eta: Point proven by previous comment.
It was undercover Fed's pointing the guns at people. Eventually leading to the death of a private citizen. Don't forget that you authoritarians.

a reply to: JBurns

Well said sir

Thank you -- and right back atcha!

We have to stop letting ourselves be divided. We have to stop putting everyone in boxes and making up different rules for everyone as we go along. We must understand we're all in this together!!!

What the prosecutors did wasn't wrong because the Bundys are White... it's wrong no matter who they do it to! It wasn't "White Privilege" that got them in trouble and it wasn't "White Privilege" that got them out of it! The White prosecutor sure didn't think about any "White Privilege" when he was prosecuting them either.

It's not about race. It's about what's right and just for all of us.

a reply to: Spider879

I respectfully disagree, these guys pointed guns in LEO's faces, imagine an AA group or a group with an Islamic sounding name , you honestly believe it would had ended as it did..be 100% With me now, and this is regardless of whether you think they were in the right or wrong in the first place.

That's a fair question, and I'm happy to answer.

Yes, I do believe it would have ended exactly the same way under the same circumstances if the rancher was Black or Islamic or Native American or Mexican or whatever... because we're dealing with the Bureau of Land Management who bully and intimidate in their own ways according to their own circumstances. Much different situation and mindset than inner-city cops fighting violent gang and drug crime, for example. The purposes and politics are very different.

In my opinion, the Feds got too big for their own britches and believed their own publicity... when push came to shove, I think they were gobsmacked. These cowboys didn't take their abuse and cower in fear, and the Feds had absolutely no idea how to handle it. They got themselves in too deep. Long before anyone at Bundy Ranch wielded a firearm (and they were never in anyones "face"), the Feds had committed far worse crimes and inhumanity than the Bundys ever did.

In the future, the Bundy case is actually an awesome argument for anyone and everyone facing abuse from government. Instead of crying "White Privilege", scream "precedent" from the rooftops! Everyone can claim their victory.

a reply to: Boadicea

In the future, the Bundy case is actually an awesome argument for anyone and everyone facing abuse from government. Instead of crying "White Privilege", scream "precedent" from the rooftops! Everyone can claim their victory.

I'll have to wait and see a test case like the above, but I won't place any bets on the brown guys pointing guns at cops urban centers or not.

a reply to: Spider879

I'd like to think and hope that brown people will never again be put in such a position... but we live in the real world. But in that case, I really hope they do use this as precedent.

Divided we fall... together we're strong.

Great, another pack of wannabe-martyrs walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist. I wonder how much longer until a group of these morons decide to secede and get put back in their place?