The Myth of The Lying President

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I care when any person in power lies we can fact check you know and yes he does lie just as Clinton Obama and Bush did but is it okay to lie? we shouldn't give any of them a free pass and that includes right and left wing media.

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I care when any person in power lies we can fact check you know and yes he does lie just as Clinton Obama and Bush did but is it okay to lie? we shouldn't give any of them a free pass and that includes right and left wing media.

Do your fact checkers say that they are lies?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Why don’t you paste in their definitions instead of omitting them?

Not real sure where you're going with that question, but ok. Because I was trying to be concise. I, for one, don't care for a wall of text and would rather click a link to read someone's supporting information.

Why did you not post the entire text of your link?

And while were talking about your website you hold so dearly ...

Description: When only select evidence is presented in order to persuade the audience to accept a position, and evidence that would go against the position is withheld. The stronger the withheld evidence, the more fallacious the argument.

Cherry Picking

a reply to: Eshel

I don’t hold that website dearly. I guess by your standards you are a liar.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Eshel

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture
3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

Hate to break it to ya bub, but your definition requiring "deliberate intent" is not the whole story. I guess if you cherry pick your definitions, it's easier to defend your position. But if you look at definition 2 & 3, I'm pretty sure that he "lies" very often.

On a technicality, I suppose you told a "lie of omission".

Lying by omission, also known as a continuing misrepresentation, occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. An omission is when a person tells most of the truth, but leaves out a few key facts that therefore completely change the story.

Hate to break it to you bub, but dictionaries define according to usage. They even record usage that is blatantly false.

So now even dictionaries are fake news...

Using a dictionary’s limited definition of a term as evidence that term cannot have another meaning, expanded meaning, or even conflicting meaning. This is a fallacy because dictionaries don’t reason; they simply are a reflection of an abbreviated version of the current accepted usage of a term, as determined by argumentation and eventual acceptance. In short, dictionaries tell you what a word meant, according to the authors, at the time of its writing, not what it meant before that time, after, or what it should mean.

Appeal to definition

So by a current dictionary definition the current president is a liar.

Even if his intent is not to deceive in the traditional sense of lying as the premise indicates, he is a pathological and/or compulsive liar, which is generally for internal benefit (self-affirmation, and associated external affirmation) versus external gain, and likely stems from a psychological (mental health) condition.

Link1
Link2

Sounds like the person about whom this thread was created.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A child is not lying when he states the falsity that Santa delivers gifts at Christmas. He is not intending to deceive anyone. His claim, even though it is false, is made in good faith and innocently

I think that may be the best comparison we have seen to date and you are absolutely correct.

Trump is not a liar. He is like an innocent, ignorant child that doesn't know any better.

He’s a 70 year old man, not a child. And I’m sure if you didn’t cherry pick his untruths while not touching his truths, you might find the frequency of untruths is pretty common, and you wouldn’t have to lie to yourself to support your falsities.

I am not the focus of this discussion. Trump is and I would be grateful if you would keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Honestly, you have dug a pretty deep hole with this thread that I do not see you being able to crawl out of.

The picture you have painted of Trump is one of shear ignorance and naivety, while trying to cast doubt on him being a liar.

I'm not sure that really does Trump and favors.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
There are plenty of philosophical and scientific dissertations on what is or isn’t a lie. All you have to do is take a look, but that would involve thinking for yourself.

We are all aware of that..it's a number one thesis.
However, the OP is about a myth of a lying President...namely Donald Trump, what he does is deceit, and quite deliberately, doesn't even care if he is caught out on a regular basis, however he is a President now, and he in turn should have some respect for those people that elected him, and for the population in general...he doesn't...big fail, he may have got away with it when stiffing...trying to stiff a few people in Scotland, never mind the ones he stiffed at home, but trying it on with the nation is a whole new ball game.
So don't you try it on with me...I can see you coming a mile away.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If indeed you are being truthful, then yah, I'm sorry I lied about you.

See what honesty looks like?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I as you should use every bit of info we can get and make an informed decision Trump lies or he is ill informed (therefore should be sacking his advisers) or he is an idiot or the last option he is lying on purpose which is the worse option for all of us because many are accepting it.
I kinda get what you are attempting to say everyone lies so who to believe? but hey I think we should string em all up.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A child is not lying when he states the falsity that Santa delivers gifts at Christmas. He is not intending to deceive anyone. His claim, even though it is false, is made in good faith and innocently

I think that may be the best comparison we have seen to date and you are absolutely correct.

Trump is not a liar. He is like an innocent, ignorant child that doesn't know any better.

He’s a 70 year old man, not a child. And I’m sure if you didn’t cherry pick his untruths while not touching his truths, you might find the frequency of untruths is pretty common, and you wouldn’t have to lie to yourself to support your falsities.

I am not the focus of this discussion. Trump is and I would be grateful if you would keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Honestly, you have dug a pretty deep hole with this thread that I do not see you being able to crawl out of.

The picture you have painted of Trump is one of shear ignorance and naivety, while trying to cast doubt on him being a liar.

I'm not sure that really does Trump and favors.

You stated explicitly he is not a liar yourself. Hilarious how that works out.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Actually I think I proved that you don’t care if trump lies or not, so long as some journalist makes the claim is all you guys need.

The problem is that the liberal media has made the term "liar" into a Trump meme and the left hold it like some flag towards everything he has to say.

I can call every politician a Liar 100s of times over, I can call ever human one too, but we do not call them all liars too, why not?

If you all wanted to talk about some big lies I think we could look at the last three Presidents and get a pile of ones that have really affected America very negatively in many ways, but once again are Obama, Bush and Clinton all referred to as "the liar" like Trump has been? Trump the one President who just happens to be truly trying to accomplish item by item from his campaign pledges. Boy isn't that a strange thing to do...

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I as you should use every bit of info we can get and make an informed decision Trump lies or he is ill informed (therefore should be sacking his advisers) or he is an idiot or the last option he is lying on purpose which is the worse option for all of us because many are accepting it.
I kinda get what you are attempting to say everyone lies so who to believe? but hey I think we should string em all up.

Such a task would involve a variety of conditions I fear could never be met. A mentioned good faith and bad faith, and I suggest acting in good faith is best mode of conduct in situations like this.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Actually I think I proved that you don’t care if trump lies or not, so long as some journalist makes the claim is all you guys need.

The problem is that the liberal media has made the term "liar" into a Trump meme and the left hold it like some flag towards everything he has to say.

I can call every politician a Liar 100s of times over, I can call ever human one too, but we do not call them all liars too, why not?

If you all wanted to talk about some big lies I think we could look at the last three Presidents and get a pile of ones that have really affected America very negatively in many ways, but once again are Obama, Bush and Clinton all referred to as "the liar" like Trump has been? Trump the one President who just happens to be truly trying to accomplish item by item from his campaign pledges. Boy isn't that a strange thing to do...

Politics itself is a grand charade. Washington is Hollywood for ugly people, as the saying goes. It’s theatre. So long as they speak their mind, tell us what they think, no matter the falsities spoken, they are in a sense telling the truth by doing so. It’s more transparent to know what the president thinks, when and when not he is telling the truth, and having him speak his mind is the only way to accommodate that.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Even trumps closest advisers know trump is a lying president. They try to keep him off twitter and embarrassing the entire WH but it's a lost cause.

www.businessinsider.com...


Here's a new list to look over...


www.rawstory.com...

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Even trumps closest advisers know trump is a lying president. They try to keep him off twitter and embarrassing the entire WH but it's a lost cause. Here's a new list to look over...


www.rawstory.com...

You shouldn’t be embarrassed. Do you really care what some effete elite in Europe, and the people they pander to, thinks of your president?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A child is not lying when he states the falsity that Santa delivers gifts at Christmas. He is not intending to deceive anyone. His claim, even though it is false, is made in good faith and innocently

I think that may be the best comparison we have seen to date and you are absolutely correct.

Trump is not a liar. He is like an innocent, ignorant child that doesn't know any better.

He’s a 70 year old man, not a child. And I’m sure if you didn’t cherry pick his untruths while not touching his truths, you might find the frequency of untruths is pretty common, and you wouldn’t have to lie to yourself to support your falsities.

I am not the focus of this discussion. Trump is and I would be grateful if you would keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Honestly, you have dug a pretty deep hole with this thread that I do not see you being able to crawl out of.

The picture you have painted of Trump is one of shear ignorance and naivety, while trying to cast doubt on him being a liar.

I'm not sure that really does Trump and favors.

You stated explicitly he is not a liar yourself. Hilarious how that works out.

Again, I'm not sure the alternative you provided is much better, if at all.

Unintended consequences?

originally posted by: olaru12

Even trumps closest advisers know trump is a lying president.

Was Obama, Bush and Clinton "Lying" Presidents too?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hold on tell the Truth have you been on the Christmas eggnog?.



(because I just poured my first drink of the xmas period ).
Yo Ho Ho everyone.

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hold on tell the Truth have you been on the Christmas eggnog?.

I’m always on a nog of some sort or another.

May as well stop while you're ahead guys, Les is so smart that he refuses to admit he's wrong. He will twist and contort any and every point you make into semantics so that he never has to admit he's wrong. He will go all day, his stamina in semantic debates is pretty impressive to say the least. He will talk you in circles until you're blue in the face. Don't give him the satisfaction of his trollery.