Was Christmas destroyed by consumerism?

a reply to: olaru12


I just KNEW I had to work most holidays when I worked My first Thanksgiving in Patrol, and got called to a 'family disturbance' and get to the area of the call and see a guy chasing after another and the first guy had a big knife protruding from His shoulder blade. These guys started fighting before they even carved the turkey. It was great! Plus too cold usually to play Golf, plus guys would pay You back 2-1.

I had 2 older brothers who My parents adopted who shat on EVERY holiday, get together. I mean true 'pieces of work' the one that doesn't live in a Board & Care home, had My Father change His will on His deathbed, nothing changed in the Will except the attorney fees..

They can both Piss up a rope! I worked every chance I could to have a solid excuse for My Mom..

Hmm.. I feel sorry for you more than anything OP.

Clearly you are describing your own life and reality, and that is really a shame. You are projecting to an extreme degree, but most people seem to do that, so no worries.

Personally, my pain levels are through tthe roof, I'm completely exhausted, and can think of little more than bed. But, it was so worth it for several days of incredible family time, great meals, and good smells. I loved every minute and the crippling pain is a reminder of just how much time I was able to spend with loved ones.

That time, for the lucky ones, seems to matter more and more every year. I genuinely hope that anyone who doesn't have it, can find it at some point in their lives.

originally posted by: darkbake
I don’t know what all of you are worried about, I’m having a great time. My family is getting together right now listening to traditional Christmas music and we are about to have an early dinner.

Holy crap, that went differently than I expected. I had a great time socializing, eating, opening gifts, listening to music and whatnot...

But my girlfriend got upset because she didn't get any gifts she wanted, and because Christmas with my parents wasn't as exciting as she had expected... she got really depressed over it. I spent the rest of the day after I dropped her off after dinner texting her trying to bring her mood up.

Add to that the fact that my dad didn't get my mom a gift, and now my mom is questioning her whole marriage, for real. I mean, of course, my dad should have gotten her a gift. I don't even know what to say about that.

From my perspective, we should be happy we got to have dinner together as a family, listen to traditional Christmas music, open the gifts we got... I do feel bad for turning down the chance to play a board game because I was getting tired.

Why can't people be happy that they have food, shelter, and a loving family? I mean, we even got gifts. GIFTS!

Yes, there was a tree, yes, there was Christmas music, yes, there was a prayer... What's so bad about celebrating all of that around a home-cooked meal? It seems to me that there was a lot to be thankful for...

Yet my girlfriend and mom are acting as if the world ended... which brings my mood down, too, because I have high empathy.

a reply to: Taketwo

I understand your feelings towards the holiday. I feel somewhat the same. That's why I try and give to others as much as I can during the year...little things like getting someone a coffee, doing something nice for them, talking and hanging out with someone that I know is having a bit of a rough spell.

The idea that one day of the year we should give gifts...meh...it doesn't sit well with me. I prefer to live every day, as much as possible, as if it were a special day. But then again I'm a horrible atheist who doesn't believe in a god anyways.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

I'm an atheist, as well... I was enjoying the loving family, home-cooked food, shelter from the winter storm, and we even handed out gifts to each other as a nice bonus. It seemed like enough to be thankful for, to me.

I've been in danger of not having food or shelter before. I am seriously grateful to my loving family and friends. These are some of the most important things in life.

I also agree with doing small things to help others throughout the year. In addition, I appreciate the small things people do for me.

a reply to: Taketwo

If that's what the day means to you, I am truly sorry you feel that way. That isn't what it's about for many people, however. Some, perhaps, and that's their issue. For many, though, it's far more than just a day for presents. We spend more time together as a family, playing games, watching a movie or show, listening to music, relaxing, having a nice dinner, etc. Yes, gifts are given, but we enjoy giving them more than receiving, as a rule. People get things they need, and some that are just for fun, but that's not the focal point of the day.

You'd be wrong about the books, too. My house is filled with books. We don't have enough shelf space for all we have. The entire family loves reading, both fiction and non-fiction. Internet or not, I consider spelling and proper punctuation important. Being able to write clearly means that we can communicate more easily with one another. It's also a mark of a good education, versus a poor one, and of caring enough to take the time, versus being lazy about it. If something is important enough to share, isn't it important enough to write it down properly?

Is it possible that this rant is more about something else, for you? Perhaps not the holiday you wanted, or expected? Again, truly sorry if that's the case, and can understand being upset. Some days just aren't what they should be, and some families as well. Hardly any are what most would call "normal", or anything close to perfect.

A bit late, I know (family time and all that, until late this evening, for me), but I do hope you have a better day tomorrow than you seem to have had today.

originally posted by: chr0naut
The Roman Sol Invictus was celebrated on the 25th, but as this was a pagan practice birthed by Emperor Aurelian more than 275 years after Christianity, it is actually that this was a pagan festival instigated as a corruption of the Christian festival, rather than the other way around.

The Saturnalia predated all of those and was celebrated prior to the Principate.

a reply to: paraphi

yeah nowhere in the bible does it say to celebrate the birth of Jesus...it also particularly forbids bringing in a tree and decorating it. Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus or the bible, its just a re-branding of Pagan holidays to corrupt, sew doubt, etc..

"believing in the magic of santa" (satan) who rewards your obedience with material good. give me a break.

originally posted by: smkymcnugget420
"believing in the magic of santa" (satan).

If you're going to try and make a point using etymology at least get your information correct, 'Santa' is from 'sante' or Dutch for 'saint'.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: chr0naut
The Roman Sol Invictus was celebrated on the 25th, but as this was a pagan practice birthed by Emperor Aurelian more than 275 years after Christianity, it is actually that this was a pagan festival instigated as a corruption of the Christian festival, rather than the other way around.

The Saturnalia predated all of those and was celebrated prior to the Principate.

Saturnalia celebrations began on the 17th of December, which was precisely my point.

Christianity didn't 'steal' the date of a pagan festival at Christmas.

a reply to: chr0naut


It also ran for a week.

And December 25th was the date of the Roman winter solstice.

Bradt, Hale, Astronomy Methods, (2004), p. 69.
Roll, p. 87.

Another source.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: chr0naut


It also ran for a week.

And December 25th was the date of the Roman winter solstice.

Bradt, Hale, Astronomy Methods, (2004), p. 69.
Roll, p. 87.

Another source.

The Julian calendar was implemented on 1st January, 45 BC, (46 years before Jesus was calculated to have been born) and when it was implemented, the Winter Solstice fell on the 23rd of December. How can we know that for sure? It is encoded in the orbit of the Earth.

Over time, the Julian calendar was going out of sync with the seasons and so it was reformed by Pope Gregory 1,500 years after Germanicus had implemented it.

The shift in dates of the solstice are due to the Earth's axial precession, which completes a single rotation every 26,000 years. So, therefore the discrepancy to the calendar during the 1st Century was only 0.06 of the magnitude of the discrepancy than existed 1,500 years later with the Gregorian reform.

The thing is, the discrepancy in the Julian calendar wasn't moving the Winter Solstice closer to the end of December, it was moving it earlier in December. When the Gregorian calendar was implemented, the Winter Solstice fell on December 10th in the Julian calendar.

Astronomers still use Julian dates and so are very familiar with the way they are calculated. If they get their calculations wrong by even a little bit, they mis-locate objects in the sky. Whereas historians may be excused for being a little fuzzy in their estimates.



The long and short of the matter, is that the Winter Solstice never fell as late as the 25th of December, and the Saturnalia celebrations began even earlier in the calendar than the solstice.

For most of the first Century, Saturnalia was a three day event concluding on the 23rd. By the time it was lengthened, it is likely that the birth date of Jesus was already a Christian tradition.

originally posted by: chr0naut
The long and short of the matter, is that the Winter Solstice never fell as late as the 25th of December, and the Saturnalia celebrations began even earlier in the calendar than the solstice.

I suggest you take that up with the authors I linked and not me, they both seem to disagree with you.

a reply to: smkymcnugget420
Lighten up dude. It's a chance for family and friends to get together and share food and drink. If you can't find happiness in sharing food and drink with family and/or friends, I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I take any excuse at all to get together with my loved ones and laugh over food and drinks. There is nothing finer in my world than watching people enjoy food that I've prepared for them.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Your own story sounds like one that is worth telling through the visual media. Have you any plans along those lines?
a reply to: olaru12

In progress....

Currently working on projects written by other film makers here in Tamalewood; features, shorts, commercials and TV. On set now working thru the Holidays. Blessed!!

www.denverpost.com...

www.sagaftra.org... www.iatselocal480.com... Union proud!!

I will keep an interested eye on these ventures.