Our Debt Doesn't Exist

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Snakeoil. Tastes good in the way in but burns like hell on the way back out again.

I'm truly baffled how people can be taken in by such obvious bull.

A bad combination of legitimate desperation, poor education and deep desire to explain why their life hasn't turned out quite how they thought it would.

originally posted by: Realtruth
The money we make, trade most of our working life for, worry about, and strive for is a myth. As hard as it is for people to wrap their heads around, these undeniable facts are truth.

Not trying to diminish anyone's bank account, career, wealth, 401k's, or dreams, but it can disappear overnight literally, because it's just a bunch of 1's and 0's/binary, in an electronic banking system, backed by nothing.

Money is the "Red Herring" Look at how we focus on national debts, and things that don't really exist, they've really got us under their thumbs, No?

We have a "Fiat Currency", it was never there in the first place. And TPTB don't hide it take a look they tell us right to our face. Suggestion play this video over and over, until it sinks in, then watch the second video.

We are taught to think making money per hour, trading our time (Per Hour) is the way. TPTB, and the elite pull money, out of their asses, then loan it to the a mass who will sign their life away for bling, mortgages, bills, elusive safeties, and more bling.

Now what is the real value? If people really want to understand and undo the brain-washing, here's a highly recommend video by Edward G. Griffin. It talks about how the Federal Reserve was implemented, and that the true value, of money is the sweat equity.

The video will empower people who do not understand the banking system we have today, and to slow down, question, and use critical thinking going forward, in their future.

I picked this video because it portrays a mindset, and without a partisanship bias, this is exactly what TPTB think about us.

This is all well and good. But, what is the solution to this? I've seen lots of people talk about how money's not real, it's all a lie based on nothing. None of them present any alternatives. How do we as a society and a planet just stop relying on this system without some kind of massive upheaval that leaves millions of people dead and society totally hooped?

originally posted by: surfer_soul
Borrowing money at minimal interest and repaying at your leisure? Good luck with that, on any serious loan you will repay it over a set period and the interest you pay will be nearly as much again as the amount you originally borrowed by the time you’ve paid it off.

It's working fine for me at 3.75%. The interest is far below the market value of the property.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: elementalgrove
Cryptocurrency!!!

Still money.

What is your point? lol

The thread is about the deception of our national debt, and current fiat system. Some type of exchange will always exist, but the current one in place only benefits an elite cartel.

We do have a choice not to buy into personal debt, which is a prudent choice, however the illusions of national debt is a myth.

Again to answer your question some type of money will exist, what type? Who knows, however the current system is corrupt.

i want to reiterate the importance of Judge Anna's work and info. Just as important to the fiat debt money is the fake person that accepts the debt. The strawman fiction that is created in your name but is always in ALL CAPITAL letters. Thats how they trick us away from common law courts and into the legal system where the U.C.C. is the law, the whole of the law. It becomes all about commerce, period. Yes, there most certainly are better, easier less compli ated ways to civilly enact business with one another. There is no good reason for compound interest in the top for printing and digital clicks. This system is so unfair governments have to do double book bookkeeping to hide all the excess wealth they accumulate. The asset portion is called C.A.F.R.

They only present the debt to the public, which of course pays interest, which then they trick us into payingfor it. A debt cycle where the assets are kept in other books.

So recognize that we are as fake as the fake money.
True money, real currency is fungible. Fiat is not in anyway fungible. It is faith based.

Money is the most fungible thing there is. One dollar is one dollar.

I think you might be confused over what fungible means.

If you believe the Freeman spiel however your confusion becomes understandable.

Well there you go: that's the problem right there!
Everybody thinks that a dollar is a dollar: it's not.

A dollar is created with a debt attached to it, in the FIAT system.
The debt finds it way down onto the shoulders of the folks whom can least afford it.
That's the hidden part that trickles down.
Watch the video.

originally posted by: Nothin
...in the FIAT system.

So what do you want to replace the fiat system with?

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Realtruth

Meh, go back to a time when there was no money then.

Barter your potatoes for brain surgery, see how that goes.

No holidays either.

Work sun up to sun down till you die.

It may not be a perfect system, and it has made us lazy...but I’d rather that than work and fight every waking minute just to survive.

Just to survive huh?
Maybe it's not laziness, maybe it's a racket that some are on to, others not so much.
Every day is holy we all are belonging to the Earth not the other way around.
Nice to consider brain surgery is needed to correct such an ideal.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Nothin
...in the FIAT system.

So what do you want to replace the fiat system with?

Would like to see the abolishment of Rothschild-controlled central banks, and the all money/financial systems put back into the hands of the people of the different nations.
The end of the BIS, World Bank, and the IMF.

But then again: look what they did to Muammar Gaddafi...

a reply to: Nothin

Have seen such videos before and they are generally half baked conspiracies that confuse fiat currency, the operational functions of central banks and modern reserve banking.

originally posted by: Nothin
Would like to see the abolishment of Rothschild-controlled central banks, and the all money/financial systems put back into the hands of the people of the different nations.
The end of the BIS, World Bank, and the IMF.

But then again: look what they did to Muammar Gaddafi...

Yeah, just as I suspected, you don't even know what fiat money is. The banks don't make something fiat, the fact that it's not a direct, intrinsically valued commodity does.

a reply to: dug88

How do we as a society and a planet just stop relying on this system without some kind of massive upheaval that leaves millions of people dead and society totally hooped?

That's the 64 thousand dollar question!

Caring about others and not caring about others. On the one side you have those that like to be givers and then there's those that like to be takers. We just have to put a cap on the lid of the takers.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Nothin
...in the FIAT system.

So what do you want to replace the fiat system with?

In terms of financing something, crowd funding is becoming more common place.

As I said previously though the problem isn’t with any financial system we have in place, it’s all based on faith regardless. The problem is human greed and the sociopathic mindset that usually accompanies it.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
In terms of financing something, crowd funding is becoming more common place.

Still fiat.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: bulwarkz
funny, because i do have money management problems from past mistakes.

So because you're irresponsible the rest of us need to alter our system of currency?

...like your home (notice how you replace your need for my skills for the "absolute" need for a loan from a bank) and your clothing and most importantly your food. You choose to go through the bank for all those privilages that used to and still rightfully belong with us, the producers. I'm a carpenter by trade, a real good one. I run huge crews using force multipliers.

That's nice. I don't have the time or inclination to build my own home. I'd rather borrow the money at minimal interest, repay it at my leisure and use the remainder for investment purposes. If it were't for banks loaning people money to acquire real estate your industry wouldn't be nearly as profitable.

nope, that's called personal responsibility. I have zero debt. I do not live above my means. I buy what i can afford. And here is what you miss, i said past mistakes. I have learned hard lessons in my life from my own mistakes. And that has nothing to do with this convo, except to you. The system is a rigged system and yes it can be exploited. A real system would put value on real exchange of value for individual labor within society. Equitable trade. It is actually lazy as f*** to feel exploiting people is the same as working for it. It is why real estate being turned into tradable asstes is so wrong, why corporate farming is so wrong, why bi agri is so wrong, why big pharma is so wrong. It is the cart before the horse. These are staples of life that were to become "persons" and given more rights than people. It is corporatism over people. Znd do not think for a second their exploitation of this corrupt system is evidence we need them. Big corporations are parasites, not providers or producers. Poison has more commercial value than food or medicine. Profits in housing has more value than shelter for the homeless. They do not care at all about us.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Nothin
Would like to see the abolishment of Rothschild-controlled central banks, and the all money/financial systems put back into the hands of the people of the different nations.
The end of the BIS, World Bank, and the IMF.

But then again: look what they did to Muammar Gaddafi...

Yeah, just as I suspected, you don't even know what fiat money is. The banks don't make something fiat, the fact that it's not a direct, intrinsically valued commodity does.

Any fool can google FIAT money in a matter of seconds.
Don't have an answer as to what it should, or shouldn't be replaced with.
That wasn't the point.
The point is that folks are being royally reamed, and that should be a red-flag to any of us.

Deflecting those concepts, into: "Well, I'm doing fine", was all you needed to write.

Can you use your sharp mind to acknowledge the problem, and look for solutions, or not?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

Have seen such videos before and they are generally half baked conspiracies that confuse fiat currency, the operational functions of central banks and modern reserve banking.

Do you understand what a fiat currency is? It has everything to do with central banks, and the current modern reserve system.

Our current monetary system is loosely based on a "Fractional Reserve System", which dictates:

en.wikipedia.org...

is the practice whereby a bank accepts deposits, makes loans or investments, but is required to hold reserves equal to only a fraction of its deposit liabilities.

Reserves are held as currency in the bank, or as balances in the bank's accounts at the central bank. Fractional-reserve banking is the current form of banking practiced in most countries worldwide.

Our last 2008 crash was due to non-regulated loans given out, in the trillions, however it's about to get much worse. Curbs were not put into place, well some were, but then removed recently, so bogus loans are being given out like candy again.

But a much worse storm is brewing this time and here is a gentleman that puts things into perspective.

originally posted by: bulwarkz
nope, that's called personal responsibility. I have zero debt. I do not live above my means. I buy what i can afford. And here is what you miss, i said past mistakes. I have learned hard lessons in my life from my own mistakes. And that has nothing to do with this convo, except to you. The system is a rigged system and yes it can be exploited. A real system would put value on real exchange of value for individual labor within society. Equitable trade. It is actually lazy as f*** to feel exploiting people is the same as working for it. It is why real estate being turned into tradable asstes is so wrong, why corporate farming is so wrong, why bi agri is so wrong, why big pharma is so wrong. It is the cart before the horse. These are staples of life that were to become "persons" and given more rights than people. It is corporatism over people. Znd do not think for a second their exploitation of this corrupt system is evidence we need them. Big corporations are parasites, not providers or producers. Poison has more commercial value than food or medicine. Profits in housing has more value than shelter for the homeless. They do not care at all about us.

Nice rant. Try answering my questions.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

Have seen such videos before and they are generally half baked conspiracies that confuse fiat currency, the operational functions of central banks and modern reserve banking.

Well: here is a good opportunity to show all then, just what the truth of the these banking systems are.
Do you have any reading materials, or vids to suggest?

originally posted by: Nothin
Any fool can google FIAT money in a matter of seconds.

Then why didn't you?

The point is that folks are being royally reamed, and that should be a red-flag to any of us.

Deflecting those concepts, into: "Well, I'm doing fine", was all you needed to write.

Can you use your sharp mind to acknowledge the problem, and look for solutions, or not?

Reamed how? No one makes you borrow money or become indebted. If you don't understand how these things work it's not society's issue to educate you.

You still haven't effectively answered the question. The guy above you, Bulwarkz, wants to revert to some sort of bartering system where you are also unable to commoditize your real estate because he's sold on some freeman on the land scam but at least he gave an answer. Poor as it was.

Tangible things are money, they must be real. A federal reserve not is not money, but a debt owed, when you hand one for a coffee you have said to the cashier, "I can't pay now because the government took the money to pay, so I'll pay you later..." Winners of the lottery are not rich, they are beyond poor, they owe and debt for every dollar they got for "free." As a side note, the IRS will not take "real money" as payment, you can ONLY pay in Federal Reserve Notes or by creating a bond with your signature via check. Think about that, if you take your gold or silver coins to pay your tax bill they will tell you to pound sand.


House Joint Resolution 192



JOINT RESOLUTION TO SUSPEND THE GOLD STANDARD AND ABROGATE THE GOLD CLAUSE


JUNE 5, 1933


H.J.192 73rd Cong. 1st Session

Joint resolution to assure uniform value to the coins and currencies of the United States.

Whereas the holding of or dealing in gold affect the public interest, and therefore subject to proper regulation and restriction; and

Whereas the existing emergency has disclosed that provisions of obligations which purport to give the obligee a right to require payment in gold or a particular kind of coin or currency of the United States, or in an amount of money of the United States measured thereby, obstruct the power of the Congress to regulate the value of money of the United States, and are inconsistent with the declared policy of the Congress to maintain at all times the equal power of every dollar, coined or issued by the United States, in the markets and in payment of debts.

Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled.

That (a) every provision contained in or made with respect to any obligation which purports to give the obligee a right to require payment in gold or a particular kind of coin or currency, or in an amount of money of the United States measured thereby, is declared to be against public policy; and no such provision contained in or made with respect to any obligation hereafter incurred. Every obligation, heretofore or hereafter incurred, whether or not any such provisions is contained therein or made with respect thereto, shall be discharged upon payment, dollar for dollar, in any such coin or currency which at the time is legal tender for public and private debts. Any such provision contained in any law authorizing obligations to be issued by or under authority of the United States, is hereby repealed, but the repeal of any such provision shall not invalidate any other provision or authority contained in such law.

(b) As used in the resolution, the term "obligation" means an obligation (including every obligation of and to the United States, excepting currency) payable in money of the United States; and the term "coin or currency" means coin or currency of the United States, including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banking associations.

SEC. 2. The last sentence of paragraph (1) of subsection (b) of section 43 of the Act entitled "An Act to relieve the existing national economic emergency by increasing agricultural purchasing power, to raise revenue for extraordinary expenses incurred by reason of such emergency, to provide emergency relief with respect to agricultural indebtedness, to provide for the orderly liquidation of joint-stock land banks, and for other purposes", approved May 12, 1933, is amended to read as follows:

"All coins and currencies of the United States (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banking associations)hereunto and hereafter coined or issued, shall be legal tender for all debts, for public and private, public charges, taxes, duties, and dues, except gold coins, when below the standard weight and limit of tolerance provided by law for the single piece, shall be legal tender only at valuation in proportion to their actual weight." Approved June 5,1933, 4:30 p.m.

originally posted by: crankyoldman

Tangible things are money...

Money is whatever a particular society or group of people agrees upon, in the United States it has been dollars for some time.

And if you don't want all those useless Federal Reserve Notes you can give them to me.