IRS Nabs Big Win Over Coinbase In Bid For Bitcoin Customer Data

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: purplemer
The topic is also about crypto currency which you dont understand..

The topic is about capital gains/income which you are ignoring.

The taxes issue seems to be near and dear to your heart. And I am not disagreeing with you on that.

But the topic is/should be about the gov't's ability to gain visibility into the transactions that cause said profit. It is complete anathema to the entire crypto currency universe for that to happen.

It's about privacy. Can we all remember that? Sure there will be shady dealings, but should that prevent everyone else from conducting a private transaction with a currency controlled by *no* government - simply a transaction between two consenting parties?

I say screw big brother....and I work for him too in the areas that I choose.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

But you do have to pay taxes on Bitcoin proceeds. You'd know this if you understood investing. Or tax policy. Which you don't.

I said transactions. Taxes and fees are not collected for that. If you read my post you would know that too.

The IRS isn't attempting to tax transactions which was what you originally claimed.

Yes they will. The Big Banks and the gubment want regulatory control, the banks use the fed to force disclosure of private sales, first.

Then the fed will file charges for income tax evasion for all the transactions to date. Thats how they always take down businesses they don't like.

Income tax evasion.

So you are complaining that bitcoin will get treated exactly like any other investment.

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: purplemer
The topic is also about crypto currency which you dont understand..

The topic is about capital gains/income which you are ignoring.

The taxes issue seems to be near and dear to your heart. And I am not disagreeing with you on that.

But the topic is/should be about the gov't's ability to gain visibility into the transactions that cause said profit. It is complete anathema to the entire crypto currency universe for that to happen.

It's about privacy. Can we all remember that? Sure there will be shady dealings, but should that prevent everyone else from conducting a private transaction with a currency controlled by *no* government - simply a transaction between two consenting parties?

I say screw big brother....and I work for him too in the areas that I choose.

What crypto fan boys want bitcoin to be is irrelevant. It has to play by the same tax rules every other investment does.

originally posted by: Riffrafter
But the topic is/should be about the gov't's ability to gain visibility into the transactions that cause said profit. It is complete anathema to the entire crypto currency universe for that to happen.

I'm not interested in the philosphy of Bitcoin. Just becasue you want to trade in something doesnt exempt you from taxation on proceeds otherwise every financial instrument should be exempt for whatever reason I feel is legitimate.

a reply to: Riffrafter

I wasn't referencing the OP. If you haven't noticed, there seems to be a few that don't seem to think profit made from bitcoin investments is taxable. Which is what AM was talking about and ante was talking about what people see bitcoin as.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Riffrafter

I wasn't referencing the OP. If you haven't noticed, there seems to be a few that don't seem to think profit made from bitcoin investments is taxable. Which is what AM was talking about and ante was talking about what people see bitcoin as.

True.

I was using your post to make a broader point.

Apologies for that.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Riffrafter
But the topic is/should be about the gov't's ability to gain visibility into the transactions that cause said profit. It is complete anathema to the entire crypto currency universe for that to happen.

I'm not interested in the philosphy of Bitcoin. Just becasue you want to trade in something doesnt exempt you from taxation on proceeds otherwise every financial instrument should be exempt for whatever reason I feel is legitimate.

But how are they going to do it? ForEx trading are currencies being traded, sure. But it's more than that. Those currencies are traded for real value in another currency.

How would the government implement control over Bitcoin to ensure profits are taxed? Moreoever, even with the insight, how do they enforce it?

Just bang down your door with the IRS, I suppose.

a reply to: ScepticScot

What crypto fan boys want bitcoin to be is irrelevant. It has to play by the same tax rules every other investment does.

Investment? It's a currency that has perceived value and is used/traded for other items of perceived value.

It is not an "investment". When you take your money out of the bank, do you view that cash as an investment?

What people do with it or perceive it to be is irrelevant to what it is.

a reply to: Riffrafter

It's not the currency of the US. As far as the IRS is concerned it's a commodity.

On a legal basis it seems obvious something like this was going to happen. Those seeking anonymity in financial transactions have no leverage, those making policy and collecting taxes do.
There is an undeniable appeal from the wrong crowd to this anonimyty, that's not helping either.

And when it comes to paying taxes it is very well documented that the more money you have the better the options become to minimize the amount of actual taxes paid.

Debbie Downer Out

originally posted by: Tempter
How would the government implement control over Bitcoin to ensure profits are taxed? Moreoever, even with the insight, how do they enforce it?

They don't need to control it to tax you.

Just bang down your door with the IRS, I suppose.

That can happen now if you don't pay your taxes.

originally posted by: Riffrafter
When you take your money out of the bank, do you view that cash as an investment?

If you have it in an interest-bearing account it is and you will be taxed accordingly.

a reply to: Jubei42

And when it comes to paying taxes it is very well documented that the more money you have the better the options become to minimize the amount of actual taxes paid.

Exactly.

It is (was) one of the only ways the "average Joe" could keep private transactions, private.

This is a much bigger deal than many people realize. But the battle has just begun.

There are much larger forces at work and which will soon be brought to bear.

Watch this space...

originally posted by: Riffrafter
It is (was) one of the only ways the "average Joe" could keep private transactions, private.

The government doesn't care about private transactions as long as they are not illegal. The government cares if you buy something for $X and sell it for $X,XXX, it wants its cut of that proceed.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Riffrafter
It is (was) one of the only ways the "average Joe" could keep private transactions, private.

The government doesn't care about private transactions as long as they are not illegal. The government cares if you buy something for $X and sell it for $X,XXX, it wants its cut of that proceed.

Love you brother, but those two sentences are diametrically opposed.

BTW - I never pegged you for a big brother kind of guy.

No harm no foul either way.

a reply to: Riffrafter


This has nothing to do with being a fan of government. Cap gains are cap gains.

Frankly I don't want my investments taxed at all, I had my money taxed prior to investing it and if I s*** the bed on my investments it's not like the government gives it back to me.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: theantediluvian
I'll have to disagree here.

Replace Bitcoin with gold. Do you have to pay taxes on your sale of gold if there are proceeds?

What Bitcoin is happens to be irrelevant. People having been trading on the ForEx long before Bitcoin and they pay taxes on their proceeds.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that taxes aren't owed. I'm saying that people want to be able to evade taxes with crypto.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
I'm saying that people want to be able to evade taxes with crypto.

People wanted to evade taxes with bootleg hooch, how'd that work out?

The IRS always wins. Always.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

And thats a good thing. Some of you have little to no perspective.

I'll take ideology over profit any day of the week. And yes that is a very slippery slope but the alternative is free fall

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter
Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.

I do not like your reasoning.

It would be like saying, I pay too much for my mortage so everyone else should too.

The big appeal of bitcoin is the IRS and big banks have not been able to regulate them.

Just look at all the ancient threads on ATS about bitcoins and how quickly the usual syspects responded to denounce bitcoins as stable currency. Countless times bitcoin has been declared dead.

It is apparent the IRS and big banks hate cryptocurrency and the achieved a small victory with this ruling.