A question for the african-american ats members.

originally posted by: fiverx313

additionally, the burden of both transportation and free time during normal working hours are burdens that fall disproportionately on poor citizens. because of the economic fact that more of our black citizens live in poverty, this disproportionately affects our black citizens as well. therefore, yes, it is racist both in practice and in intent.

How did what you said prove intent to discriminate? Did you think people were going to miss that little leap in logic?

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: fiverx313

Your exact words are not the expected desire. I seriously don't feel like having to explain what is already in plain English.

you've failed to explain how that's actually relevant to anything. so my experience wasn't what you intend or desire with this law? then isn't that a sign that the law is bad and not working as you would want it to?

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
How did what you said prove intent to discriminate? Did you think people were going to miss that little leap in logic?

doesn't seem like a leap to me. it didn't make the process more secure. it makes it hard to get a proper ID to be able to vote. it most affects people who don't have good transportation option or spare time, aka our working poor.

just try thinking it through again more slowly. or do some reading on the topic -- plenty of people write about it and i've no doubt a lot of them are more eloquent than i am.

a reply to: fiverx313

I dunno where you lived in VA that the nearest DMV was an hour away, considering how many offices they have. Most of which are open on Saturdays.

And I dunno how long ago you were able to get a photo ID without presenting any identifying document, because they've required both the application and something that proves your identity for many, many years.

what year is this, wtf is this thread really about?

what real studies show black people can't get an id?

what world are you living in.

voter id is a deterrent for illegals voting, now if you're black you can't get an id in 2017.. the real stigma are people living with this mindset in 207.

even if you weren't black you can answer those questions 100% accurately

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: fiverx313

I dunno where you lived in VA that the nearest DMV was an hour away, considering how many offices they have. Most of which are open on Saturdays.

it is really that hard to think i could actually be telling the truth?

since it seems mind-boggling to you and others that anyone could actually have any trouble getting a voter ID, i will fill in some details. i was living in chincoteague. the dmv wasn't an option because i was keeping my maryland driver's license, as i was moving again shortly and didn't feel like going through that hassle. even if i had, the closest dmv to chincoteague is still not all that close. considering that there are many people who don't drive who might still like to vote, i feel that's probably relevant to a broader discussion of the topic.

the county office was in accomac. in the interests of STRICT accuracy since i'm so unbelievable to begin with, it seems like more of an hour and a half round-trip than two hours.

And I dunno how long ago you were able to get a photo ID without presenting any identifying document, because they've required both the application and something that proves your identity for many, many years.

i don't know either, but that is, in fact, what happened. i found it so unbelievable at the time that i posted it on my personal social media as well. no one who lived in virginia at that time disputed my account.

forgive me if i don't post screenshots, though. you'll have to either decide i'm lying for my own nefarious agenda, or that it is, in fact, what happened.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of requiring an id. As long as the state makes 100% that everyone who can vote gets one, that there is zero possiblity anybody could be excluded from voter rolls or unable to obtain or use their ids for any reason. But they are pushing to require these ids because they know these conditions will not be met. Nobody actually gives a damn about votor fraud, which is too bad. I've heard people say they cross state lines to vote more than once, and I've personally seen an election official suggest a votor vote under someone else's name because they couldn't find their name on the roll.

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: fiverx313

I dunno where you lived in VA that the nearest DMV was an hour away, considering how many offices they have. Most of which are open on Saturdays.

it is really that hard to think i could actually be telling the truth?

since it seems mind-boggling to you and others that anyone could actually have any trouble getting a voter ID, i will fill in some details. i was living in chincoteague. the dmv wasn't an option because i was keeping my maryland driver's license, as i was moving again shortly and didn't feel like going through that hassle. even if i had, the closest dmv to chincoteague is still not all that close. considering that there are many people who don't drive who might still like to vote, i feel that's probably relevant to a broader discussion of the topic.

the county office was in accomac. in the interests of STRICT accuracy since i'm so unbelievable to begin with, it seems like more of an hour and a half round-trip than two hours.

And I dunno how long ago you were able to get a photo ID without presenting any identifying document, because they've required both the application and something that proves your identity for many, many years.

i don't know either, but that is, in fact, what happened. i found it so unbelievable at the time that i posted it on my personal social media as well. no one who lived in virginia at that time disputed my account.

forgive me if i don't post screenshots, though. you'll have to either decide i'm lying for my own nefarious agenda, or that it is, in fact, what happened.

So based on your story it was hard for you to get a voter ID illegally... since temporary residents don't have voting rights there. If you maintained an out of state license you were supposed to be voting in the state of residency.

So the moral of the story is that getting an ID to vote illegally is in fact harder than doing so legally. Excellent information.

a reply to: fiverx313

Boy, somebody is feeling dramatic today.

in the interests of STRICT accuracy since i'm so unbelievable to begin with, it seems like more of an hour and a half round-trip than two hours.

Thanks for being honest, rather than trying to exaggerate in an effort to make your point stronger.

i found it so unbelievable

So even you find it unbelievable?

a reply to: trollz

There's nothing racist whatsoever about requiring people to have an ID to vote. We do that to ensure that the voting system is fair and legal.

Except when you show up to vote the polling center is 'closed', or so slow it takes hours waiting on line or the machines are 'broke' or the voting register is 'misplaced' or your name isn't in it.

How many unfair practices loopholes are there, 'legally'?

"African Americans ".....
No such thing.
If you are a citizen of the United States then you are an American.
Why do people constantly want to divide?

a reply to: RickyD

There is no law that you must have an ID on you. When I go out running I rarely have an ID, unless I drove--then I leave my ID in my car and go running.

As for voting. I know a black guy who is deaf and mental issues, so he cannot drive, but he still has a state ID. Also, where I work there are several black people, they all have ID's, they have to have several forms of ID to work in the place we work.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: trollz

There's nothing racist whatsoever about requiring people to have an ID to vote. We do that to ensure that the voting system is fair and legal.

Except when you show up to vote the polling center is 'closed', or so slow it takes hours waiting on line or the machines are 'broke' or the voting register is 'misplaced' or your name isn't in it.

How many unfair practices loopholes are there, 'legally'?

This deserves its own thread.

As a transracial, cis gendered, lesbian, otherkin, I find it problematic that we would allow racist identification that forcefully assaults us into choosing to identify as either male or female for voting purposes.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: trollz

There's nothing racist whatsoever about requiring people to have an ID to vote. We do that to ensure that the voting system is fair and legal.

Except when you show up to vote the polling center is 'closed', or so slow it takes hours waiting on line or the machines are 'broke' or the voting register is 'misplaced' or your name isn't in it.

How many unfair practices loopholes are there, 'legally'?

Show me a single case where a line of blacks are told the place is closed and forbidden from entering while whites stream in past them.
Show me a single case where all the blacks in line are told to wait while so the whites can go first.
Your argument is a lie. If a place is closed, it's closed for all races. If a line is long, it's long for all races. Anything other than this would be a massive national scandal heard around the world, people would be arrested, and there would be enormous lawsuits involving anyone who had anything to do with it.

It's simple.
If you want to drive, have a driver's license.
If you want to vote, have any form of legal identification with your picture on it.

This might be the problem. Some can't vote..


Felon Disenfranchisement

Background and History

The idea of taking away a criminal's right to vote has been around since ancient Greece and Rome. A condition called "civil death" in Europe involved the forfeiture of property, the loss of the right to appear in court, and a prohibition on entering into contracts, as well as the loss of voting rights. Civil death was brought to America by English colonists, but most aspects of it were eventually abolished, leaving only felon disenfranchisement intact in some parts of modern America.

Categories of Disenfranchisement

State approaches to felon disenfranchisement vary tremendously. In Maine and Vermont, felons never lose their right to vote, even while they are incarcerated. In Florida, Iowa and Virginia, felons and ex-felons permanently lose their right to vote. Virginia and Florida have supplementary programs which facilitate gubernatorial pardons. The remaining states each have their own approaches to the issue.

www.ncsl.org...

And.

ww2.kqed.org...

Roughly 6.1 million voting-age American citizens who have been convicted of crimes are restricted from voting in next week’s presidential election because of felon disenfranchisement laws.

That’s about 2.5 percent of the total U.S. voting-age population – 1 of every 40 adults – that can’t vote because of a current or previous felony conviction, according to recent analysis by the Sentencing Project, a criminal justice reform group.

Or if I committed a crime, I wouldn't want to present my ID just in case.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: scraedtosleep

There have been a lot of studies on this subject with real data not just superstitious delusions:

How Voter ID Laws Discriminate

The right uses all kinds of tactics for voter suppression. But nobody really likes democracy anyway.

You cant board a plane without ID

Is that racist?

a reply to: SailorJerry

No because i also got the TSA FBI background check for $50.00.
I'm White. And I Worked at the airport.

PRO TIP!
There is an employ entrance that's faster than the regular passenger check point. But I still get to enjoy all the HANDS ON PAT DOWN. Pilots and Flight Attendants have to do this too.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

I've had two incidents in my life where id's issues were indeed very racist. I'm not black but I'm a minority woman.

DMV- Florida, We were new to the state.
I was required to get a special higher security drivers license, I foget what it was called. I asked them if it was absolutely required and was told yes, had to provide loads of documents. My husband goes the next day in and gets a regular drivers license, looks nothing like mine and cost less.

Voting - Wisconsin. Moved from one town to the next. Was registering for voting. Right on top of the sheet, it said if you have a Valid Drivers license you DO NOT need a Social Security card. I provided my valid DL and was asked for my Social Security card. I pointed to the sheet and read it back to them loudly and asked them if they understood what was was written and what it meant. They were all flustered and proceeded with my registration.

Now these are just two small examples. I provided a perfectly legitimate ID and was still questioned for more.
I'm all for having an ID for voting, but I am also for having poll workers not be racist, how do we test for that?????

Proving residency is really difficult.

Im white, 28, good career. But I live in a situation that many people I know in African american communities do. I dont have any utilities in my name... and I know many people dont use/trust banks so bank statements cant be used either.

This makes proving residency difficult.

If you are an african american in the inner city, without a car, limited/stressed income, no access to your birth certificate or ss card, and you live with someone else/a group of people to be able to survive so you dont have any bills in your name...

I can see getting a government issued ID being difficult.

Think about the cost too.. an ID costs like $40, getting your birth certificate is another $25, sometimes theres a cost getting your social security card too.

Thats alot of money to some people and it can become a voting deterrent.