The Senate Tax Cut Is Actually A Tax Increase.

This is quite interesting, now the numbers have actually been crunched, the devil is as you might imagine, in the detail.

After all the temporary provisions expire --

Net taxes on individuals are $75 billion higher in 2027 than otherwise.

Net taxes on domestic businesses are $49 billion lower in 2027 than otherwise.

Net taxes on international businesses are $4 billion higher in 2027 than otherwise.

This information comes from a link in the footnotes from a Press Release from the Republican Chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Orrin Hatch.

Combine those three figures and you reach a net tax increase of $30 billion per year going forward. With the burden mostly falling on individual tax payers, while businesses get a break at the peoples expense.

a reply to: Painterz


This would all be fine if average people had income protection from government taxes.

That should be included in the bill of rights. Income tax is theft and makes all other taxes that much harder to pay. That much more burdensome.

Its a natural right to keep what you earn. Anything altering that cycle is theft by any measure.

The state earns its way through sales tax and tariffs.

a reply to: Painterz

You aren't surprised are you? Only the foolish and gullible actually believe the Republican party cares about the people, and don't let anyone blame the Democrats for this bill. Those people are equally foolish and gullible. These bills are being written so as to avoid negotiating with Democrats or being potentially held up by Democrat nay votes. This noose hangs 100% on the R labeled necks.

a reply to: Painterz

Of course it is. Anyone with even a small degree of mathematical ability realizes we can't cut taxes further. So they're not doing that, they're just shifting the money around as to who pays how much.

a reply to: Aazadan

I wish they'd actually be honest for once and come out and say, "It would be fiscally irresponsible to reduce taxes any further as it would potentially jeopardize future government spending, so we are going to increase taxes to help manage our growing debt." Some damn honesty would be SUPER refreshing for a change. Instead we get a tax increase disguised as a tax decrease. It's very shameful and deceitful.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

While the rupubs might own this bill the democrats hands surely aren't any cleaner.

The two party system is not about helping the people, its about taking the brunt of the blame as a form of distraction when corporations constantly win.

here is the cycle:

GOP make corporate friendly laws > middle-class take hit > Corporations wins > DNC blames GOP >

DNC make corporate friendly laws > middle-class take hit > Corporations wins > GOP blames DNC >

the cycle continues but what doesn't change is the middle-class taking the hit and Corporations winning under both parties.

When it comes to taxes its pretty simple. If the tax plan contains and allows for deductions than its not for the people.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The House just passed their version, the one that increases taxes on students by about 400% by making all scholarships, loans, and tuition waivers count as taxable income.

The big deal with that one is grad students especially who will typically have a stipend that pays say $20k, but a tuition waiver worth 40k, so now they'll be expected to pay on $60k worth of income out of just $20k in cash.

It gets even worse going down the chain. For example I was getting disability assistance which covered my schooling at about $30k/year while my actual income was $9k in SSI. Thus, if I were still in that position and this became law I would be paying taxes on $39k out of $9k in income.

That's on top of the tax increases they're throwing at universities which will force them to raise tuition.

originally posted by: interupt42
The two party system is not about helping the people, its about taking the brunt of the blame as a form of distraction when corporations constantly win.

Only one party is trying to dismantle our education system.

I brought this issue to my congressman and the response I got back was that maybe I should look for a less fancy job then.

They outright want to destroy the concept of high skill jobs in this country.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Aazadan

I wish they'd actually be honest for once and come out and say, "It would be fiscally irresponsible to reduce taxes any further as it would potentially jeopardize future government spending, so we are going to increase taxes to help manage our growing debt." Some damn honesty would be SUPER refreshing for a change. Instead we get a tax increase disguised as a tax decrease. It's very shameful and deceitful.

Thats just as deceitful as the left claiming they need to increase taxes to help the poor.

Honesty is that you shouldn't be talking about taxes, healthcare, world conflict, or any other GOP ,DNC, or MSM pushed issue.

It makes no sense to try to solve YOUR issue with the people that created the system and are benefiting from the system the way its working.

People need to stop blaming the right or the left or gloating when they prove their point and just acknowledge both sides are corrupted as F so we can begin to fix the REAL issues.

The saviour is saving his people, from not getting richer and richer, for doing nothing than letting their money "work".
Those that voted for him, the unemployed, the poor, the left behind people from the Bible and Rust belt... are not his people, as everybody predicted and everybody can clearly see.

Except those that have nothing to lose anymore but nevertheless voted for an alleged superrich being, in hope that the alleged superrich being would care about them!

It´s so funny, "only the dumbest calves choose their own butcher", Brecht was so right!
And the even more dumb calves defend the butcher while watching how he is slaughtering the other calves!
Because it´s for "Making Butcherland great again"...

Applause, applause!!!!

a reply to: Aazadan

Only one party is trying to dismantle our education system.

Seriously, education is a new issue only under the republicans? Come on.

Both sides are responsible and have had full control one time or another to fix things and they never do. they only make things better for the lobbyist.

It's every time a tax cut comes up on either side of the isle there is always someone screaming is a tax cut for the rich or its really a tax increase on the middle class. God I am so sick of hearing this about every tax cut that is proposed. If every-time it's such a financial burden on the American people then just stop trying to adopt new task "cuts".

I swear nothing will ever happen positive for the American people unless we stop re-electing these partisan fools in congress.

Sorry for the rant. Just drives me nuts that congress can't just work together towards a common goal that's not party oriented or full of hate.

~Morpheus

Even the Liberal Washington Post says these claims are false. The average working family will receive a tax cut. Please feel free to read the article below and stop spouting false Democrat talking points.

Senate Democrats falsely claim GOP tax plan will raise taxes for most working-class families

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.

Indeed, at the far end of the chart, you will see that every quintile on average receives a tax cut — not a tax increase.

a reply to: interupt42

Dude. Just stop. Your lazy attempt to have the democrats co-own this bill is bad. The republicans wrote it, they own it. I know the democrats aren't innocent of wrongdoing, but this thread isn't about those wrongdoings. This thread is about the tax bill so bringing up those other things just to make the Dems look bad too is a distraction. You aren't breaking any new ground with your message here either.

a reply to: Aazadan

Yeah. Let's tax the next generation's schooling. You know the generation that typically has no money? That sounds like a grand slam idea!

a reply to: interupt42

And the people who sit and whine about both sides being corrupt need to shut the # up about it for once and do something instead of whine. I'm really sick of hearing that song and dance. Politics and governing invites corruption. It doesn't matter if we have a one party, two party, or infinite party system. Corruption WILL exist in some form. That doesn't mean the system is flawed. It means you tackle the corruption on a case-by-case basis and don't judge the sum total from the bad eggs that were caught.

I know many on ATS forget it, but at the end of the day our politicians are humans too. They aren't uncanny demons with absolutely no compassion, even if it seems like it from time-to-time. They have the ability to recognize the difference between good and bad and believe it or not some actually DO care about the differences they are making. But if you make enemies out of all of them, you'll never see these nuances.

originally posted by: interupt42
Seriously, education is a new issue only under the republicans? Come on.

Both sides are responsible and have had full control one time or another to fix things and they never do. they only make things better for the lobbyist.

You can argue quality has gone downhill under Democrats and even that is dubious, but Republicans are the only ones trying to withhold education from people. This is one issue where they are not both the same. Look at what DeVos is doing to public schools. Look at what we've done to university subsidies. Look at what they're about to do to the price of college.

Do you remember the Republican plan for college reform that Marco Rubio proposed in the 2016 Presidential primary? I do. He wanted to do away with public funding and make students pledge X years to a company in exchange for that company dictating a major and sponsoring a student for that education. Literal indentured servitude is what they want to go back to.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Aazadan

Yeah. Let's tax the next generation's schooling. You know the generation that typically has no money? That sounds like a grand slam idea!

They don't realistically expect to get any revenue off of it. They just want to prevent people from going to college. That way they'll go to boot camps, or trade schools, or just drop out and work at McDonalds. They don't want a future generation of lawyers, engineers, and scientists. They want a low education work force, where only the elite can go to school because the networking advantages of places like Harvard are ceasing to matter. So they need to make all education exclusive again.

a reply to: Painterz



YAY!

You finally get it! republicans or democrats, they gonna raise our taxes!

originally posted by: MorpheusUSA
It's every time a tax cut comes up on either side of the isle there is always someone screaming is a tax cut for the rich or its really a tax increase on the middle class. God I am so sick of hearing this about every tax cut that is proposed. If every-time it's such a financial burden on the American people then just stop trying to adopt new task "cuts".

I swear nothing will ever happen positive for the American people unless we stop re-electing these partisan fools in congress.

Sorry for the rant. Just drives me nuts that congress can't just work together towards a common goal that's not party oriented or full of hate.

~Morpheus

This tax bill is working for Republican mega donors, that's all. They want a tax cut above all else. The problem, is that they're not cutting spending anywhere else. That means revenues have to remain the same. That means raising taxes on others to compensate.