The word fact and opinion are not the same word

I just find it amazing how many people think their own opinions are facts. Facts may be true or they may be false. But opinions are never lies. For example, here is fact:

3 in 10 teen American girls will get pregnant at least once before age 20. That's nearly 750,000 teen pregnancies every year. Parenthood is the leading reason that teen girls drop out of school. More than 50% of teen mothers never graduate from high school.

Now in response to this fact, we could have a discussion around a public policy to address this issue based on the reported fact. Many people believe government doesn't have a role in public policy. Many people believe the government should do NOTHING but spend tons of money on the military. Again, facts and opinions are very different.

These statements are opinions:

1. Planned parenthood is good.
2. NRA is bad.
3. Gun control is bad.
4. Guns or butter, we spend way too much money on the military

Anytime you use the word "good" or "bad" it is an opinion not a fact. Opinions are never lies. And your own opinions are NOT facts. No matter how many times you use the word "fact" to express your opinion, it is not a fact: "The fact is Hillary Clinton is corrupt and should be in prison."

Saying Hillary is a criminal is an opinion. If there are bank records showing money transfers to her personal account followed by quid pro quo actions in the State Department that would be a fact that might result in an indictment. But unless you have real facts, Hillary will never be indicted based on right wing opinions. Losing the election is the most punishment she will receive for being a right wing lightning rod of vitriol reactions.

Say you think planned parenthood is "good". And the fact you want to address with public policy is the number of children living in poverty:

About 15 million children in the United States – 21% of all children – live in families with incomes below the federal poverty threshold, a measurement that has been shown to underestimate the needs of families. Research shows that, on average, families need an income of about twice that level to cover basic expenses.

My opinion would be planned parenthood is "good". We need to reduce the number of children living in poverty through birth control education and handing out free condoms. Also, reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies would reduce the number of abortions in this country. How to address the fact, or the best way to address the fact, is an opinion. Public policies, and ALL politics, is nothing but opinions. ALL political discussions in response to facts are opinions.

You may have the opinion planned parenthood is a big waste of money. And the money given to planned parenthood should never be used to pay for abortions. Not giving money to planned parenthood because they finance abortions is a very good opinion. However, the facts might actually show a well funded planned parenthood would reduce the number of abortions every year which I do believe is what the studies show.

I think what is important is we as a people need to get to a place where we can have a civil conversation with regards to opinions and which political facts are worth addressing with public policy. There's just way too much fandom in politics. It's almost like people are rooting for NFL football teams yelling at each about which team is better.

We have political facts. We have political opinions. Please try to stop butchering the semantics of the language. We have too many problems in this country to continue with insane political rhetoric for the purposes of scoring cheap political points.

"we spend way too much money on the military"

That's a FACT.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean its inherently an opinion. Otherwise everything would be opinion.

What you cited are statistics.

While numbers don't lie per se, when you create a statistic, you can, in fact, make something very misleading with your number. If you know how to set the samples and parameters to generate your statistic, you can make one that appears to say whatever you need it to. That's why you have to be careful with statistics at face value. It's always important to break them down to see how they were generated.

For example, when you saw a poll throughout election season, it would and could generate very different results depending on where the sample was obtained, who was sampled, etc. Just sampling likely voters v. any and all respondents would make a big difference in outcome. But then the press reports the end results as if one stat was as valid as the other.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"we spend way too much money on the military"

That's a FACT.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean its inherently an opinion. Otherwise everything would be opinion.

No it is still an opinion. It just happens to be an opinion that is greatly agreed upon by many in the country, but opinions don't magically change into facts the more people agree with them.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The government spends too much money in pretty much every area.

a reply to: ketsuko

That's an opinion too.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"we spend way too much money on the military"

That's a FACT.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean its inherently an opinion. Otherwise everything would be opinion.

Respectfully, there are many people who have the opinion we do not spend enough money on the military.

It is not a fact as you say. It's your judgement. What is the right amount of military spending?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The government spends too much money in pretty much every area.

Opinion or fact?

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't disagree with anything you are saying especially with regards to polling. But even then, political facts are do not lend themselves to easily to manipulation. Teenagers get pregnant at a certain rate per 1000.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Fact.

The government ups its budget unrestrained in every dept. every year. Just mentioning cutting the amount of that annual increase is called austerity and treated like doom.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dfnj2015

Fact.

The government ups its budget unrestrained in every dept. every year. Just mentioning cutting the amount of that annual increase is called austerity and treated like doom.

One would think that if the government spends way to much money on everything then there would be no problems in your society.

I think a more accurate statement would be that you think that the government misappropriates way too much money.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not if you can prove it.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Nope. It's still an opinion, just a highly researched opinion instead.

a reply to: ketsuko

I'd say that is likely a fact buried in hyperbole.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not if you can prove it.

You would need to show that the annual expenditure was not justified in order for your statement to be a fact I think.

a reply to: nonspecific

Seems to me the people pushing for that pie graph to look that way have the burden of proof on them that US (7% of the world population)[1 out of 195 total nations][6.6% total earth land mass] spending 42% of the total global budget is justified.

Now that is an opinion.

Or is it....

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No it isn't. That's an opinion 100%. YOU believe we spend too much. Maybe I believe you don't spend enough. You can't tell me my opinion is wrong. Just like I can't tell you your OPINION is wrong

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Anytime you use the word "good" or "bad" it is an opinion not a fact.

'Good' is spelled with two Os.

'Bad' is the name of an album by Michael Jackson.

Opinions or facts?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

This thread is a thread about identifying the difference between opinion and fact, not a thread where you can post any random opinion you favor as facts and tell anyone who disagrees with you to prove you otherwise. At the end of the day you have stated an opinion. End of story.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: nonspecific

Seems to me the people pushing for that pie graph to look that way have the burden of proof on them that US (7% of the world population)[1 out of 195 total nations] spending 42% of the total global budget is justified.

Now that is an opinion.

Or is it....

Discussion of percenges reminds me of an old Sufi tale about 2 men discussing food.

A poor man says to a rich man "I am struggling to survive, I spend 50% of my money on food for my family."

"AHA!" says the rich man, " I see where your problem lies, I only spend 10% of my money on food for my familiy and I am doing just fine."