Anyone noticing a pattern here?

a reply to: angeldoll

I like to take the positive side of things, but I wonder though, if we will be able to stop this. Look how far we have fallen already. Look at the atrocities we enact against each other, and evil as they may be, are only in limited confrontations. Imagine if a point is reached were a fairly significant percentage of the population is pushed over the line. Short fused reactions, aka trigger events, are a fairly common thing. But large scale unorganized efforts by masses are not triggered events, they are built up over long periods of time. Sure, there will be a straw that breaks the camel's back, but the whole movement as a mass has been building for a long time now. You can only stretch a rubber band so far. And when it snaps back its going to leave a mark. I think this one is going to sting for a while.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

This.

And look at how much people who have been pushed onto opposing sides tend to dehumanize the ones on the other side. Once you start thinking of the opponent as the "other" rather than another human being, it gets that much easier to rationalize all kinds of actions against him or her.

Why do you think they used to much racial propaganda during WWII? It wasn't because we'd suddenly become a land of racists so much as it was because they had to stave off war weariness, and nothing will start doing that faster than warm and fuzzy feelings for the people who are doing their best to conquer you.

So you have all those old disney cartoons where Donald Duck is drawn like a ridiculous Japanese stereotype among others.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vroomfondel

This.

And look at how much people who have been pushed onto opposing sides tend to dehumanize the ones on the other side. Once you start thinking of the opponent as the "other" rather than another human being, it gets that much easier to rationalize all kinds of actions against him or her.

Why do you think they used to much racial propaganda during WWII? It wasn't because we'd suddenly become a land of racists so much as it was because they had to stave off war weariness, and nothing will start doing that faster than warm and fuzzy feelings for the people who are doing their best to conquer you.

So you have all those old disney cartoons where Donald Duck is drawn like a ridiculous Japanese stereotype among others.

the part that irks me so much about that is we all probly have relationships with family members, loved ones, so's, etc and how many of those people do u have intimate knowledge of and yet they are still a mystery to you. yet everyone thinks they know the exact makeup of each individual when it comes to politics and i just dont know how people can make that leap with so much of their daily life experience that goes against such labeling

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Right. Unless there is a mass murder, or catastrophic natural event, the liberal news stations and publications spend most of their time on NATIONAL ENQUIRER angles to issues.. / body language/ rumors of / turmoil reported within __________ / blah blah..

originally posted by: SolAquarius
I'm almost certain that despite this thread rasing the question of divisive and polarising issues being a distraction, that ATS will continue to argue over trivial and polarising issues.


Here on ATS I have seen several similar threads rasing this issue and they never seem to change anything here.

I guess folks like to argue about trivial and polarising things.

No they don't!

a reply to: TheScale

The simple answer is because we are told that if we attach X label to ourselves or have it attached, then we must also attach all the baggage that comes with it.

No one is allowed to be themselves, and individual. Instead, we are labeled by our superficial attributes so we can be neatly packaged.

A black Muslim will care about these issues because blacks care about this and Muslims care about this. Is this person also an immigrant (doesn't matter if they are legal or not), then they must also care about these things too.

How rich or poor are they? Well, each of those labels come with another set of things they must care about ...

And if that person suddenly declares themselves to be against any of those attached issues that come with their labels, the rest in the crowd turn on them viciously in an attempt to either peck them to death (as hens will to the outsider) or drive them from the herd (like deer do).

a reply to: ketsuko

Its more than being pushed to blind hatred, some people are being pushed into absolute and complete stupidity.

I mentioned not long ago that I had been slandered recently by a liberal a$$hat who said I had deserted from the Army. He called me every name in the book claiming that I got in all kinds of trouble and all sorts of nonsense and gibberish. I explained to him that I was never even in the Army, I joined the USN and was never disciplined or court martialed, and received a normal discharge. He continued to blather away. I dug out my DoD records and posted a redacted pic of my DD214 showing my separation status as discharged, not deserter or court martial or whatever they say when someone deserts the military. He is so rabid and out of touch with reality he now claims that the Department of Defense falsified my records to "be nice to me". Yeah, they do that for all the deserters...

I cant believe how far over the edge these people have gone. This idiot could be institutionalized today and probably should be. I knew him a long time ago and he wasn't that bad of a person. But now, well, the kool aid has done it's trick.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: FyreByrd

Fix the 'blaming' in yourself. Take action however you can instead of waiting for someone else to do it. Start realizing that you (and you and you and me) are part of the problem in some fashion or another and, at the same time, have some small part of the solution.

What part of my answer was over your head?

The problem is that people "take action" as you put it and use the government as a cudgel to compel others to think, feel, live, do, etc., as they prefer them to instead of allowing them to go their own way in life.

Were I to "take action" and move to use the government, how would I not become another part of the current problem? At what point would I cease to be just another person seeking to use the power of government as a cudgel to compel others to do as I would prefer them to.

Be honest now, if I ever were able to mobilize enough people to take that sort of power, how would you feel? I think you know my opinions on things well enough by now to get a general gist of what would happen were I anointed god-queen of the US.

Imagine being compelled to live your life exactly the way I think people ought to live. Then tell me how much you want me involved in taking power in this country.

The only reason you dare to suggest it is because you don't believe I or others like me have any shot.

However, imagine a government that concerned itself less with everyone. That only took care of making sure we didn't kill each other, steal from other, and defended our borders ... basically the things spelled out specifically in the COTUS, not the sugar daddy, bestower of special dispensation it has become. Maybe then it would matter a lot less to everyone just exactly who was in charge of what and what @sshole every had.

Boy - what a super power - to be able to take power of government to 'cudgel' people into obedience. And being able to 'mobilitize' people to do your will like that. Such grandiose ideas.

I think you are confusing power, as in power of collective action, with force, as in forcing others to do YOUR Bidding.

Taking action means acting with integrity and humility across all domains of life and it all starts with self-reflection. But then that's not a superpower.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: angeldoll

I like to take the positive side of things, but I wonder though, if we will be able to stop this. Look how far we have fallen already. Look at the atrocities we enact against each other, and evil as they may be, are only in limited confrontations. Imagine if a point is reached were a fairly significant percentage of the population is pushed over the line. Short fused reactions, aka trigger events, are a fairly common thing. But large scale unorganized efforts by masses are not triggered events, they are built up over long periods of time. Sure, there will be a straw that breaks the camel's back, but the whole movement as a mass has been building for a long time now. You can only stretch a rubber band so far. And when it snaps back its going to leave a mark. I think this one is going to sting for a while.

A proverbial tipping point.

I do think that systemically we are at a bifurcation point, a tipping point, and the system can collapse or spontaneously transform into something new. It's a leap into the unknown - whatever way things run and that prospect of the unknown sends terror into our reptilian brain which is the primary cause for the state of affairs.

It's well know, that fear overrides all reasoning capabilities so we need to get the fear under control first or just hang on for the ride.

The answer to each of these questions lies in “child logic”–a term that I have coined to describe logic that is hijacked by emotion. I use this term without any attempt at disparagement. Rather, it emphasizes that regardless of age or intelligence, we at times engage in magical thinking associated with earlier development. Such logic fuels unrealistic expectations and heightens the potential for destructive anger. It’s as if the emotional brain and the rational brain are not effectively communicating with each other. Whether emotions override logic or the rational brain is ill prepared to correct the surge of emotion. The result is impaired judgment.

www.psychologytoday.com...

The most persistant fears are 'security' fears. Social Safety Nets (collapsing themselfs) are the easiest way to remove existential fears.

That document traces its roots to a January 6, 1941, speech by U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, in which he insisted that everyone was entitled to four freedoms: freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom from want and freedom from fear.

....

the freedom from want calls attention to issues of official corruption or certain groups being guaranteed more of their country’s resources than others.

...

Pervasive fear can “cut generations out of society” through malnutrition or being unable to send children to school. Put another way, she added, lives lived in fear miss out on countless opportunities and can never recover those losses, even if peace is restored.

share.america.gov/what-does-it-mean-to-be-free-from-want-or-fear/

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Its the old paradigm of boil the frog slowly so it doesn't notice until its boiling. One thing I have noticed, is that we are slowly being pushed towards a complete lack of civil discourse in discussing of almost any issue. If people disagreed politically, it used to be that you would just end it with, "its a free country" and shrug your shoulders. Now it ends with riots. And it seems the left has devolved from a platform for protecting workers rights and the environment, to a bunch of hooligans who just want to suppress/silence anyone who disagrees with them, without any real constructive direction. That's what's happening on both sides of the political spectrum, just fighting with the other side with not much in the way of real constructive cooperation. And yes, with every news cycle, every new volley of angry speech, it gets a little worse. Maybe the goal is to create a level of civil unrest that it will require even more draconian suppression of privacy and even free speech at some point. That is where we are headed IMHO and it worries me. And you are right we have to choose our words carefully or we are just all fanning this fire.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Liberals are notorius poor losers,so what else is new,now they make up storys,and the weak minded fall for them,otherwise BLM,Antifa wouldn't exist

a reply to: Oldtimer2

i dont know the difference between liberals, lefts, rights, blacks, whites, polytheistic or asian and for this i feel blessed.

trick to escaping the net..... spend a day as your enemy, love their life for a day, and i guarantee you it will be no different from your day, cause you're in the same net.

a reply to: FyreByrd

That's what government and the power to make law is - force.

When you lobby to have laws made that you want or think should be made, you are lobbying to have people forced into doing things a certain under threat of legal action.

The individual mandate of Obamacare is this - buy our insurance the way we think insurance should be ... or else pay a large fine to the IRS for non-compliance. There is no personal freedom there except the freedom to decide how your money is taken and in what form.

When people decided that it was best for everyone to never drink, they lobbied for a collective action to make all alcohol illegal. We saw what happened with that one. But the law was used like a cudgel to attempt to force people into behaving like those crusaders wanted them to - a nation of teetotalers. Instead, we arrived at a nation of casual (and not so casual) criminals.

Are you seeing how this works yet? He who has the power of government has the power to compel through the force of law. Every law made is one less freedom or choice you or I get to make on our own, freely. Perhaps you like always being told what to do, but I grew up and moved out of my parents' house because I wanted to make my own choices in life, not simply replace my parents with your peoples' collective.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Venezuela had ample social safety nets.

a reply to: FyreByrd

The article you referenced is brilliant:

All too often, child-logic infuses our expectations with emotions rooted in our wishes and hopes, insufficiently tamed by the facts of reality. It is child logic that supports beliefs such as: “Life should be fair”–when “Life just is”; that good efforts should always yield rewards–when they sometimes don’t; and that we should be able to control all aspects of our lives. In effect, it is child logic that may at times convince us we should always get what we want, that others should act as we believe they should, and that we should not have to suffer–even though all of us suffer.

Letting go of unrealistic expectations doesn’t mean the passive acceptance of what is. It may involve recognizing that certain expectations are aspirational rather than attainable. Or, letting go can free us to consider alternative strategies for increasing the likelihood of their satisfaction.

Yet, at the same time, just claiming the desire for a better life is simply "aspirational", therefore, should not be pined over is a little weird. I don't think people should give up on trying to attain some equality and fairness. The article seems to me to be a little defeatist.

Next...a reply to: angeldoll

White privilege sounds so familiar in the 1930s a group of people convinced a population that a specific group of people were privileged and we're the root of the populations problems. After awhile this group of people convinced the other group to start exterminating that group of people. Sound familiar? Think about who the real NAZIS are. History is repeating itself right before your eyes. Some will see the truth others will ignore it yet others will gladly follow the same road. The only difference between then and now is the population in question will not go silently into the abyss. Those that are following the white privilege logic, you are being lied to, you are being led down a dark path which will only lead to death and ruin. Stop now before it's to late.

The Hegelian Dialectic is strong in what Edward Bernays called the media. So glad some see it.

a reply to: FyreByrd

You make some excellent points. I see it as a result of cognitive dissonance. When something is so frightening that it would affect your behavior your brain has a way of ignoring the danger because acknowledging it would be too painful. There was a book called "The Collapse" that explained this perfectly. In the book they talked about a damn that was about to break. The people three miles down stream were really freaked out. The people two miles downstream were worried but not sure what to do. The people less than one mile from the damn were perfectly fine, not a care in the world. Its only when the water is at your feet that you can no longer ignore the events around you. Unfortunately, for many that is far too late.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

They're all SUBJECTIVE, meaning they are dangling these subjective and inconsequential issues in our face so that we argue over things that will change nothing all while their divide and conquer psyop rolls along full speed ahead.

They do this to condition us to accept their stories at face value.

Then, when they tell us baby incubators are being unplugged, most people believe it.

Usually it's to nudge public consensus in a particular direction, one small step at a time. In the UK, we were constantly bombarded with this "poor orphaned child refugees" crossing the Mediterranean all by themselves. Then it turns out that all these children were in their 20's, yet the Home Office in Lunar House let them in. The official line was "they have old souls". They end up qualifying for free housing, free education and free clothing while everyone else has to get up to their eyeballs in debt.