I'd Guess maybe 5 Percent of those who watch the NFL stand for the Anthem. The hypocrisy is HUGE

a reply to: Gryphon66

Possible or it could blow up in their faces, depending on how they handle players that continue to stand as people expect for the flag instead of taking a knee alongside their team mates.

a reply to: ColoradoJens

I'm not going to keep this issue going other than saying.

Yes I stand...

Jesus effing christ...

What a pointless argument, when the facts are simple.

Not standing for the flag if you are at home, is not disrespectful. Many people DO hold in their hearts the commemoration of those who have fallen for your bloody rights.

Not standing with the intent of offending the very concept of those who fell, IS disrespectful.

It is a vast gap between "You don't stand? Why you're a hypocrite, and blah blah" and "honoring those who fought for your freedoms." Bloody vast.

All I hear is the sound of leftists patting each other on the back and screeching "Yeah, good one, hurr hurr, that got 'em good." when you don't even damn well comprehend the point.

These kneeflakes kneeling during the anthem, or turning their backs on the flag, in some ignorant form of protest against something completely alien to the notion of what the anthem or flag stand for, are making a mockery of themselves.

So it has been said in this thread, that a lot of people don't stand, or go get booze and burgers, during the anthem. Gee, they will surely take note of a bunch of over paid sooks making the awesomely bold statement they make. Right?

Instead, those who DO stand, and honor the fallen who lost their lives in real conflict, to ensure the rights of all are maintained, are offended and you expect them to go "Gee, those morons really offended me. I will take up their cause, because, they must be right."

Nope.

Those of you who support this protest in the form it is made, don't even have a clue. Sure, let the numbskulls kneel. But expect the reaction. One one side, people who just don't get it, will start kneeling, thinking they are making the world a better place. On the other side, people who DO get it will just go "Idiots." and ignore anything they have to say.

And No. Trump saying they should be sacked, is NOT ordering them to be sacked. Funny how I read here, that "So what if they're millionaires, don't they have the right to express an opinion?" yet from the same mouths "Trump is an idiot, he shouldn't have an opinion."

tl;dr
Protest any way you like. No one will stop you unless your boss orders you not to, but you're damn right I and others who feel the same, have the right to take your offensive actions and berate you for them.

a reply to: badw0lf

Amazing partisan rant.

Let's boil it down to the pertinent facts, shall we?

You're saying that failing to stand when the Anthem is being played is wrong except when you choose not to stand for the Anthem.

Gotcha.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: ColoradoJens

There's only 3 things I stand for when watching a footy match:

1. To get more beer from the fridge.
2. To take a piss.
3. To show my support of my team when they score.

The only time I stand for such things as anthems and the like, is when the bugler plays 'the last post' on ANZAC day.

We also honor the minute silence on Anzac day.

To me, this is like someone purposely talking during it, just to make a fuss. They have every right to, but that right also includes being a complete dickhead. And people telling that person, or people, such have every right to also.

originally posted by: WhereAmEYE

Whole lot of MAGA going on lmao.

Yep, the lefty hand bag grasping fruit loops don't want a great America. They want a fractured one, replete with social segregation.

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: WhereAmEYE

Whole lot of MAGA going on lmao.

Yep, the lefty hand bag grasping fruit loops don't want a great America. They want a fractured one, replete with social segregation.

Is that your idea of a serious or cogent argument?

The players are addressing the racial divide, to bring attention to it as they are able.

What are you doing, for example, aside from spouting nonsense like "hand bag grasping fruit loops"? What is that even supposed to mean in this context?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: badw0lf

Amazing partisan rant.

Let's boil it down to the pertinent facts, shall we?

You're saying that failing to stand when the Anthem is being played is wrong except when you choose not to stand for the Anthem.

Gotcha.

You obviously need better reading comprehension.

That's the exact opposite of what I said.

Here let me try it slower.

Purposely... opting... to... NOT... stand... and... offending... those... who... do... is... disrespectful... to... those... who... do... and... disrespecting... the... very... reason... people... stand...

I know I know, "Racist nazi talk" right?

a reply to: badw0lf

Heheh. Predictable.

Your stated opinion is that not standing is disrespectful, and yet, that standing is a matter of choice.

That's self-contradictory; I know that's an advanced concept. Allow me to help:

If you stand in the stadium you stand at home. It's not about your location; it's about what the Anthem means to you.

The Players we're discussing have chosen to act in such as way as to continue to show respect to the Flag and the Anthem, and still get their point across.

It's a win-win ... for anyone that isn't obsessed with controlling others. /shrug

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: WhereAmEYE

Whole lot of MAGA going on lmao.

Yep, the lefty hand bag grasping fruit loops don't want a great America. They want a fractured one, replete with social segregation.

Is that your idea of a serious or cogent argument?

Is this a serious argument? It's left wing screeeeching and an echo chamber for like minded anarchists.

Sorry if my ire at the entire 'argument' is not up to your liking. Couldn't really care, I'm just a bug, right?

The players are addressing the racial divide, to bring attention to it as they are able.

And what has it become? Trump tweets about them being sacked, so all and sundry kneel. Far from being about racial divide now, isn't it. And do you honestly think that this protest has served it's intended purpose? I can think of far better ways to do it. When unions here want better work conditions for their workers, they go on strike, and hit their place of employment where it hurts. They don't just give the finger to the Australian flag and all who hold it close, during smoko.

And you know what, as much as it infuriates people, people take note, and are not personally offended by it. Nah, if the NFL players didn't play, they'd not get their salary, so instead, just piss good people off, and be the lefty twats that don't know when their own sh!t stinks.

What are you doing, for example, aside from spouting nonsense like "hand bag grasping fruit loops"? What is that even supposed to mean in this context?

What does that matter "in this context". What am I doing? Pointing out the bleeding obvious. You need a map, it appears.

a reply to: Gryphon66


your thought patterns, mode of reasoning (if you can call it that), way of characterizing the issue, is a near perfect template for how the Left thinks. Distort, contort, caricature and buffoon the entire subject into cartoonish oblivion.


its also a perfect example of cognitive impairment. Its called "all or nothing thinking" and is a well known COGNITIVE DISTORTION recognized by psychologists and psychiatrists.


Saying that in order to be philosophically/logically consistent one should always honor the flag and anthem irrespective of time and place (context) is an example of all or nothing thinking.


If you really believe what youre saying its very clear you need help.

a reply to: ColoradoJens

Great post!

I do stand for the anthem whenever/wherever it's practical and appropriate. That's what I was taught to do. Indoors or out, whatever the occasion. These days I mostly do it to honor my dad -- a Navy Vet -- who is the one who taught me to honor our brave military in this way. Including my own family members (two of which I know of that were KIA), those who have served and those who are serving now.

But I do NOT condemn the kneelers. At all. I actually have much respect and admiration for their efforts to protest in a respectful fashion. As I recall, Kaepernick at first sat during the playing of anthem... until he was advised that kneeling would be more appropriate. There is far worse Kaepernick and other protesters could do, such as turning their back on the flag during the anthem... or holding up their middle fingers instead of closed fists... or dancing the jig on top of a flag during the anthem... or whatever. If they wanted to be downright hateful and hurtful, they could be. But instead they've chosen to protest the unconscionable and unacceptable in the most respectful way possible. And given the "Kaepernick Effect," each and every one of those players is well aware that their job -- and their fat paychecks -- are on the line, but they are standing strong on principle, and I have the utmost respect for them. They are literally putting their money where their mouth is. And good for them.

From where I'm sitting, the condemnation of those protesting the protesters is worse than hypocrisy. It is a form of stolen valor. In other words, these oh-so-proud-and-loud keyboard warriors are wrapping themselves in the cloak of bravery donned by our troops to force their petty and superficial will on others... but any soldier worth his salt should be fighting for FREEDOM -- not a piece of cloth or a few notes played on an instrument. And in that same spirit -- American spirit! -- sometimes it's not only necessary and appropriate to question authority, but to also defy authority.

In order for me to truly honor my father's service, and the service of every man and woman who has put their lives in harm's way for the rest of us, it is absolutely necessary and appropriate to respect and honor the players' right to peaceably protest... especially when we disagree with their cause, because we respect and honor the freedom and the right to protest that our flag and anthem represent. As I heard my father say once when he was defending someone's right to burn the flag, and I'm paraphrasing but this is pretty darn close: "Damn right I fought for their right to [kneel during the anthem]... now get out of their way and let them do it!"

If we truly want to honor our military vets, then the absolute least we can and must do is to support the freedom that our veterans fought for... including their right to protest in this very peaceful manner. Anything less is not only intellectually dishonest, but cheapens the honor and nobility of what our veterans have fought (and died) for, and allows others to steal their virtue for cheap political points.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I've never said not standing is disrespectful. I've stated over and over that not standing on purpose with the intent of being offensive to those who do stand, is what is disrespectful.

You're trying to equate someone just sitting there, yet who holds respect for what others have done to ensure their rights, is the same as a bunch of people purposely not standing to show their intentions of disrespect to that very concept.

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color

In other words, the instigator for this 'protest' holds everyone who does show pride, in contempt. The majority of whom would likely otherwise fully support his protestations, had they been done in a different manner.

It's like arguing with a child...

Seriously, learn to read.

a reply to: ColoradoJens

Jen, the beef here is that the players are deliberately making a display of not standing for the anthem. I don't watch football but whenever I'm somewhere the anthem is playing in any public place I do stand and put my hand over my heart. Yes that includes every Saturday night in CHURCH.
The beef is that the players are making a display of boycotting our own national anthem to protest a hot political issue.
What now?

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

It's been hashed out over and over man.. they just refuse to comprehend that.

Blinkers on, attack the nasty white right... I think that's all that rebounds around their craniums..

a reply to: ColoradoJens

Here we go again. I guess you didn't do any research on this yourself?

You're what, polling ATS members to justify your ideology?

This is nothing more than another liberal love-fest thread, where anyone with views that oppose the views of the OP and the more notorious liberal posters on this site, will be subject to ridicule for page after page in this thread.

Really, how do you guys sleep at night with so much hate inside? I'm not looking for an answer...its rhetorical.

The hypocrisy is HUGE

Sure is.

A bunch of one percenters crying bout income inequality and racism.

When American athletics is dominated by millionaire minorities.

Mount Everest of hypocrisy.

Stupid argument. If I can prey standing up, I can be patriotic sitting down. It's what is in your heart. Choosing a time to reflect the sacrifices made by the people of the USA, and the chance to stand together as Americans, to protest was doomed to fail. What are they protesting in a country that has affirmative action, equal opportunity, and hate crime laws? In a country where a majority of high school dropouts come from liberal school districts?

a reply to: ColoradoJens

What a load of crap! what's next ?

-do you stand if you're in the crapper ?
-do you stand if you're driving ?
-do you stand if you're in North Korea ?
-do you stand if you're with your antifa buddies ?

a reply to: badw0lf

These threads are full of fallacies. You just can't fix stupid. I gave up a long time ago trying to have any type of "debate" with these folks. There is none. They gang up on you like schoolyard bullies and demand that you cave to their way of thinking.