The Right to "Disrespect"

There is an interesting trend happening here on ATS. Apparently everyone is pro-freedom until somebody pushes it past their threshold - which interestingly enough is the same across the board: Disrespect.

There's just a little problem with that; "disrespect" is pretty subjective. In fact, all morals in general are highly subjective. We have people that want to tear down statues because history is "disrespectful", then there are those that see them as pieces of art and want to preserve its history. We have people that want to strip so-called nazis of their rights because they're "disrespectful", then there are those that believe they're human and deserve the same rights as everyone else. Then we have the same people that were defending nazis, now advocating for athletes to be fired because they are being "disrespectful", and the same ones wanting to strip the nazis, are now advocating for the athlete's constitutional rights. Sorry for sounding really redundant, but do you see the problem with "disrespect" yet? The only thing that seems to be consistent is the hypocrisy and double standards.


context shouldn't matter!


I do understand freedom is a 2 way street and everyone is entitled to their own opinion (me included), and for all I know you can legally tear down a statue, a violent Nazi can be stripped of their rights, and an athlete can be fired for breaking the code of conduct. This isn't about that. This is about the troubling trend which is "freedom" has become very partisan and relative. Which is a dangerous and slippery slope - also the reason why the divide not only continues to persist, but even grow wider.


I repeat: context shouldn't matter!


It's easy advocating for someone else's rights when you agree with them or if it goes against the "other" side, but rarely do you see people having the courage to swallow their pride and advocate for something they disagree with. Isn't that what freedom of speech is all about?



This thread isn't meant to be an attack on either side, I'm just trying to bring some consistency and balance to these boards. If I become the bad guy for it, so be it.

and also, please let me make this point very clear because it seems to come up a lot.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences! You reap what you sow! So go ahead and protest, go ahead and kneel, go ahead and criticize, go ahead and flame me to Hell for this!


VIVA LA FREEDOM!!!

We all have freedom of speech. But we all have to realize that there can be repercussions to those who choose to excersize that freedom. Like upsetting fans who might just want to watch football without all the drama. Those same fans might protest on their own but boycotting the NFL. Everyone still has the same rights, it's just that one side needs money and one side provides it, the providers might stop, and the needers might notice.

It's nice that Trump could bring all the NFL players together in this time of turmoil. There is a need for unity, and it seems they have found it. Good for them.

Humans are so goddamn stupid they shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech, opinion or movement. We cannot be trusted.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

It's all subjective.

The posts have been interesting this past week.

Everything from;

"If you don't agree with the protest, you're against free speech"

to

"If you defend free speech for white supremacists, you're a Nazi sympathizer, but the NFL has free speech and if you don't agree, you're a racist!"


Everyone has the right to offend.
Everyone has the freedom to be offended.

But being offended does not enable one the right to silence anyone else.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Are we still NAZI's or did that pass already? Nobody told me yet.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Nicely put, but I'd guess considering that half the country would prefer to live in a country without the other half in it, the new mantra would be "I disaprove of what you say and will run you over with my truck if you don't shut-up and buzz off". Att this point, platitudes are utterly useless.

a reply to: network dude

I totally agree with you. But isn't that the beauty of freedom? People can can do as they choose and deal with the repercussions as follows.

The good, the bad and ugly!

a reply to: DBCowboy


don't forget all those offended by a group knelling instead of standing - the horror!!!!!

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

It's easy advocating for someone else's rights when you agree with them or if it goes against the "other" side, but rarely do you see people having the courage to swallow their pride and advocate for something they disagree with. Isn't that what freedom of speech is all about?

It's impossible to " advocate " for something you vehemently disagree with, though you can advocate for their freedom to express themselves and their concerns , as long as it is done in a safe and respectful manner.

a reply to: Sheye

That's exactly what I meant. For example, I don't advocate or condone anything to do with Neo-Nazi's or white supremacists. But I defended their right to protest.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: network dude

I totally agree with you. But isn't that the beauty of freedom? People can can do as they choose and deal with the repercussions as follows.

The good, the bad and ugly!

If we could offer a sign to remind them not to cry to loudly when the repercussions happen, that would be great. I have had to learn that lesson the hard way more than once. (so perhaps I didn't fully learn it yet, but I'll call it continuing ed)

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: DBCowboy


don't forget all those offended by a group knelling instead of standing - the horror!!!!!

do those people not have the right to be offended? Or do you just want to make snide comments about them since you feel differently? Just showing more of the loving liberal tolerance we all here about.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

With that freedom comes responsibility. Just because you have the freedom to be an asshat doesn't mean you should. And when people get pissed off and uses their freedom to fight back......it's an endless cycle of this hypocritical crap.

If people treated everyone with dignity and respect, the whole golden rule thing, many of these issues wouldn't be there in the first place.

No one is attacking anyone's freedom. They're attacking the tasteless, clownish way in which they are using that freedom.

a reply to: network dude

You are free to write that on a sign and protest them.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: DBCowboy


don't forget all those offended by a group knelling instead of standing - the horror!!!!!

I guess you missed the part where I said that everyone has the freedom to be offended.

It's okay.

There, there.

a reply to: FauxMulder

I agree. This wasn't meant to sound like a free pass to be a douchebag. Like I said, you reap what you sow. This was more about the subjective nature of "disrespect" and people allowing their morals to dictate what constitutes free speech.

I completely agree. People are absolutely nuts, hypocritical, whiny, and overly sensitive.

Stand for the pledge, sit for the pledge, trash talk, whatever... It's your right to do so.

"All our troops fought and died protecting our flag and fighting Nazi's! You will fight Nazi's too and respect our country and flag!" - No, buddy.

1, They fought for the idea behind the cloth, the rights and equalities, liberties and freedoms protected... including, the freedom to burn the flag and sit out the anthem if they see fit.

2, Regardless of what you believe, neo Nazi's are people too, just like Antifa. Regardless of their respective psychosis, they are entitled to their protests, ideas, chants, hypocrisy and general stupidity.

3, All the mutual bickering back and forth is covered and protected by our 1st amendment - every kneel, every stupid tweet, dumb FB post, completely false news story, marches, etc. All covered, all protected.... to a point: ya won't get thrown in jail or charged, but you can get fired!

It's unfortunate that a lot of people don't understand this concept.

I don't agree with antifa, but i'll defend their right to speak and protest (until property is destroyed, that crosses a different type of line). I don't agree with nazis or supremacists, but i'll defend their right to speak and protest (until they start running people over, again crossing another kind of line). I don't agree with Trump on certain things, but I'll defend his right to send out tweets every 20 minutes. I don't agree with any mainstream media and their sensationalist BS, made up, over-exaggerated stories, but...... well, yeah, i guess i'll defend their right to make themselves look like idiots.

Here's a question: If they aired a documentary on liberties, freedoms, and their meanings (narrated by someone who understands the full bipartisanship of the issue) how many heads do you think would explode across the nation?

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

I know what the point is. I'm just saying that because people don't agree on an issue or someone is offended by something doesn't mean they don't like free speech. I feel like this freedom of speech thing gets used as a way to shut down opposition. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, just in general.

Say I go to an Antifa protest to argue or counter protest against them. That doesn't mean I am against their free speech to say whatever BS they want. At the same time it doesn't mean I have to remain silent about the issues they bring up.

But there would be those that say "they're just exercising their free speech, your against free speech"

Free speech is not the point. My goal isn't to shut them up. It would be to convince those possibly listening to them that they are wrong in their misguided ideology.

That may be a bad example but you get my point. Opposition to ones viewpoint doesn't mean opposition to freedom. I think people use that as an excuse sometimes to get out of a discussion of a specific issue.

Brilliant concept, and well written and presented. Bravo, Hunter! Thank you for thinking for yourself!
(party of one. lol)

a reply to: FauxMulder

No I totally agree. That's not what I'm trying to do at all. The contrary actually.. I'm trying encourage people to not be restrained from using their rights.