The 1980s - When Ufology went Screwball Crazy

a reply to: mirageman

Its weird but id take the 'crayzie' of the 80's and 90's in Ufology anyday over the complete bat#e insanity of the current Ufology with its near religon like nutcasery and Extra/Intra/Inter/Ultra/inset some other nonsense -tra here dimensional light/dark/plasma beings angels and demons bollocks that has frankly destroyed the field to a point it will never recover in my opinon...

At least back then it made some sense and seemed at the most respectable... even with its frauds and fringe swimmers. At least back then there appeared to be actual decent photo/video and eye witness evidence that didnt look like the umteenth chinese lantern videos and blatant cgi we have now days. At least back then we had shows and programes that at least tried to be serious and present pretty good evidence (Sightings and unsolved Mysterys etc), unlike the absurd over exaggerating, will reguritate anything to get viewers for ratings crap we have now days.

I miss those days... the days I actually cared about Ufology and show'd interest. Nice thread though good recap of some of the more shadey stuff that sullied the field around the time it found its resurgence... despite this sort of thing ill still consider the 80-90's of Ufology the good times.

a reply to: BigfootNZ

Its weird but id take the 'crayzie' of the 80's and 90's in Ufology anyday over the complete bat#e insanity of the current Ufology with its near religon like nutcasery and Extra/Intra/Inter/Ultra/inset some other nonsense -tra here dimensional light/dark/plasma beings angels and demons bollocks that has frankly destroyed the field to a point it will never recover in my opinon..

Yep it all seemed like a lot more fun in those days. Maybe because those of us who were around were much younger and probably a lot less world weary than we are now. I also do wonder why the spooks poke about in the topic so much. We don't hear about them going ghost hunting or searching for Bigfoot so much.

Personally I am not a fan of the inter-dimensional, occult and new age roads ufology seems to have turned to.
The latest trend is that it's all about 'consciousness'.

All 'in your head' in other words.

originally posted by: mirageman
All 'in your head' in other words.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I think a slightly more accurate way of interpreting it is to understand that what we perceive and understand as reality is a construct that is built in your own head from your limited perceptions of what "real" reality consists of. It's not so much a matter of it all being in your head, but that there is a continuum of things that exist both within our interpretation and outside that interpretation that we might have problems fully understanding.

The problem, of course, is how do we go about bringing this odd UFO stuff into our realm of understanding when we're pretty much locked into our perceptions and measurements of our seemingly primarily electromagnetic existence? How can we use our science to explore aspects of existence that we can't perceive? Philosophically, if we can't perceive something, does it even exist? It's a hard nut to crack.

Good premise for a thread. To my mind, there's no question that the 1980s were boom time for UFOlogy for the same reason that the 1950s had been. The Cold War peaked in both decades (that Cuban business notwithstanding). The UFO legend served the various intelligence bodies of the US very well indeed, as a cover for various secret projects (e.g., the U2 spyplane) and as a cover for probing Soviet defences. If a bunch of UFO-fans could be roped into disseminating disinformation in the domestic arena, well that was all to the good of National Security.

S+F and will watch this thread with interest.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Yes indeed. Your explanation is far better than my flippant comment

a reply to: gort51

So you're a Country Member, hey?......
Well I'll remember...

You know you're the first person to mention that and it will probably go right over the heads of most people.

But when people say "You were a Big Country member" to me I always point out that I don't remember.

My UFO interest started as a child of the 60s.....reruns of "The Day The Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, Earth vs Flying Saucers, and 100s of other Si Fi 50/60s movies, not to mention Star Trek, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, then in the 70s Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, then More Movies, Star Wars etc etc etc.......

I think a lot of those TV shows influenced the times and were re-run well into the 80s and beyond. Another one I remember from the 60s was "The Invaders" and of course by the 80s we had 'V' with those evil mouse eating lizards.....
All entertainment but very influential in their day to young minds. When all the Roswell, Area 51, MJ12 stuff came out it just made things more exciting. I am not sure if there was any real truth buried amongst it all....

originally posted by: mirageman
Yes indeed. Your explanation is far better than my flippant comment

You're basically right, though. I can make it sound a little more substantial, but all talk about "other dimensions" or "parallel universes" or whatever is very poorly defined and tends to drift into Madame Blavatsky territory. I'm not smart enough to be able to figure out how a strange UFO or "alien" can exist to the point where it leaves traces and can be photographed, but then just vanish?

Even contemporary physics pretty much agrees that the more you think about reality and time and start tearing them apart, they start to lose their meaning.

Loved the V series, it wasnt Buck Rogers or Battle Star Galactica, but good stuff. Jane Badler played the psychopathic alien well.

Still no resolution on 2 of the more famous sightings from the 80s, Hudson Valley and the Belgium Wave. If they were just military, give them credit for keeping it secret all these years. I personally doubt the Belgium sightings were military.

For me, the Lazar story ends when he says he has 20+ names of people who worked at s4 who could possibly verify his story, but he wont let his buddy Knapp or anyone else go see if any of them will.

Let's not forget about phil schneider I wonder how he tied into this story.



www.documentarytube.com...

Later on there was Communion with Whitley Strieber, and Millennial Hospitality by Charles James Hall and LINK by Dr. Jonathan Reed with the alien in the freezer and him disappearing on live tv after he put on the wrist artifact. Then the 411 series with parts alluding to UFO. Then Dr Greer stories?

Later and on into the 90's there was Communion with Whitley Strieber, and Millennial Hospitality by Charles James Hall and LINK by Dr. Jonathan Reed with the alien in the freezer and him disappearing on live tv after he put on the wrist artifact. Then the 411 series with parts alluding to UFO. Then Dr Greer stories?

originally posted by: audubon
... To my mind, there's no question that the 1980s were boom time for UFOlogy for the same reason that the 1950s had been. The Cold War peaked in both decades (that Cuban business notwithstanding). The UFO legend served the various intelligence bodies of the US very well indeed, as a cover for various secret projects (e.g., the U2 spyplane) and as a cover for probing Soviet defences. If a bunch of UFO-fans could be roped into disseminating disinformation in the domestic arena, well that was all to the good of National Security........

Yep the 3 letter boys have as much as claimed they caused the UFO phenomenon back in the 1950s and 60s.

C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings

I don't buy it that ALL unexplainable sightings were in house. Would Project Bluebook have covered the whole lot up for them? There has been no such claim about the 1970s and beyond though. It's only just being released but there was also some very interesting military technology being developed 30-40 years ago.

Good old Ronnie Reagan effected his plan for the "Star Wars" SDI program.

Thatcher authorised research and use of laser weapons in the early 1980s.

Margare t Thatcher agreed to a top secret 'death ray' laser to be used against Argentina during the Falklands War

The above link is to a rather sensationalist story from a UK tabloid. For those interested there is the original document available to view here : Heseltine - Thatcher Memo 1983

Throw in the strange deaths of some 25 or more scientists rumoured to be involved in work with SDI and such weapons : Scientists` Deaths Mystify British and you could start building a conspiracy theory that the crazy UFO tales coming out of the South Western USA were all part of 'something unusual'.

Putting it all together and working everything out is another thing entirely.

I also think that some of the 80s craziness was kicked off in 1979 when you could get Billy Meier's Contact From the Pleiades in your local Waldenbooks.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Loved the V series, it wasnt Buck Rogers or Battle Star Galactica, but good stuff. Jane Badler played the psychopathic alien well.

Aah the lovely 'Diana - yes. '
'V' was an allegory of the Nazi invasion of Europe. I remember it well as 'V' was broadcast at the same time the 1984 LA Olympics took place (here in the UK). Billy Graham (a well know evangelist at the time) was also touring Britain during that summer. We aren't the most religious of nations and some smart-arses had took it upon themselves to spray a huge 'V' (as in the TV series) over his posters advertising his visit :0.

Anyway after that digression.

Still no resolution on 2 of the more famous sightings from the 80s, Hudson Valley and the Belgium Wave. If they were just military, give them credit for keeping it secret all these years. I personally doubt the Belgium sightings were military.

For me, the Lazar story ends when he says he has 20+ names of people who worked at s4 who could possibly verify his story, but he wont let his buddy Knapp or anyone else go see if any of them will.

I have heard that the Hudson Valley UFOs were tests for an enormous mobile OTH (Over the Horizon Radar) and the sightings were of the prototypes on huge airship type craft. Other rumours say it was part of the SDI project. I am not saying that's the answer by any means. There is frustratingly little video footage from that era to back up the claims of the numerous witnesses. Belgium is another case that has some really good evidence including radar returns. I doubt either case have been tainted by Dotyfication.

As for the Lazar tale. As UFOtainment goes it's a great tale. But solid UFO case it is not.

originally posted by: mirageman the same time the 1984 LA Olympics took place

at which they had a UFO landing!!

originally posted by: canuckster
Let's not forget about phil schneider I wonder how he tied into this story.



www.documentarytube.com...

Schneider?

Good call. He was there at Dulce in 1979 man! The battle beneath the Earth that he told a few people about. Then he got 'suicided' as the legend goes. He's certainly another character from the dark tales that were around during those times. And Dulce goes right back to Bennewitz/Doty era stories as well.

originally posted by: mirageman
I have heard that the Hudson Valley UFOs were tests for an enormous mobile OTH (Over the Horizon Radar) and the sightings were of the prototypes on huge airship type craft. Other rumour say it was part of the SDI project. I am not saying that's the answer by any means. There is frustratingly little video footage from that era to back up the claims of the numerous witnesses. Belgium is another case that has some really good evidence including radar returns. I doubt either case have been tainted by Dotyfication.

As for the Lazar tale. As UFOtainment goes it's a great tale. But solid UFO case it is not.

There's an entertaining and at times frustrating video out there on YT, "MICHAEL SCHRATT - AEROSPACE ALLEY 2017 ", consisting of Michael Schratt being presented by Kerry Cassidy of ProcGlamAlot (or is it TruthBeNot..)

Anywho...Schratt, who's a Black-Project researcher has done some work on the Hudson Valley sightings and is convinced that it was a black project all of the time and provides some details such as eyewitness descriptions to support this. He also seems to be of the opinion (without explicitly saying so) that Lazar was full of # and that there is no underground anything at Groom.

Bonus giggles from video mentioned above when this Cassidy person tries leading Schratt off into la-la-UFO-land regarding alien-tech, government partnerships etc and Schratt visibly looks irritated. Simply lovely.

As a whole, I personally feel that much if not most of the current UFO lore is a ruse simply to sell books, videos and conferences. We are no close to the truth than we were when Arnold first reported his sighting.

my 2c but props for the topic and the lesson.

Cant forget Chariots of the Gods,ancient aliens and all that...

a reply to: mirageman

I think what (e.g.) the CIA does with UFO disinformation programs is entirely separate from the UFO phenomenon itself. We know a fair amount about the former, but the latter is pretty much as mysterious as it ever was. Which in some ways makes it the ideal 'entanglement' for disinformation strategies.

a reply to: mirageman

I have heard that the Hudson Valley UFOs were tests for an enormous mobile OTH (Over the Horizon Radar) and the sightings were of the prototypes on huge airship type craft. Other rumours say it was part of the SDI project. I am not saying that's the answer by any means.

If it was military, I would assume it was to gauge reaction, seems like there was a real intent for it to be seen. Some black projects are seen moving between bases, but this seemed to be operating in the area. Probably seen by more people than all the other major UFO cases combined. Review of the book that cover it, Night Siege.

If it was just testing of radar or SDI, why not do it over a secure base? For all the military knew, the Stormville Flyers and this ship could have been out on the same night, they would have both gotten a real surprise. And what if someone did manage to get video footage of it, the story would never die till there was an explanation.