Millions Paying 10k Plus inHealth Care Premiums and Remain Afraid

In the most simple terms, the ACA is nothing more than a government confiscatory tax that is collected and kept by health insurance companies to keep them in business.

Your health is not important. Your quality of life is not important. Your bottom line is not important. The only thing that matters is that the health insurance companies remain solvent.

Insurance is not the answer and universal healthcare is not a right. It is a service that can be purchased, not a right. Now we can choose, as a people, to mandate that we will provide healthcare to our citizens as a universal benefit. There is nothing wrong with wanting to do this, but to call it a right is incorrect. The only thing we have rights to are things we can provide to ourselves. I have the right, through the sweat of my brow, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I do not have the right to force someone else to provide these for me, just as they do not have the right to deny them to me.

I feel my argument here is incomplete, but I must return to work...thank you for listening.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Aazadan
WOW!

I bow sir to your superior knowledge but for the record---there are still people out there who are broke and uninsured. There are far more people who are insured and broke because of it. Every cent they had in their budgets for savings is now going for insurance premiums. Their contributions to their retirement have been re-directed to the insurance companies. Can you not see how very wrong that is?

I can, if you read my other posts on the subject you'll see that I'm not pro health insurance. All I'm saying is that people often blame the ACA for things it's not responsible for. Health care in the US is screwed up, that's due to the insurance model though. By all metrics the ACA hasn't done anything good or bad, we would be in the same situation without it.

originally posted by: BomSquad
I feel my argument here is incomplete, but I must return to work...thank you for listening.

You can't provide yourself a gun, yet you have a right to one.

What is wrong with the Healthcare system? The fact that a family like mine has to pay 1300 a month for healthcare coverage. Let that sink in. IN many states it is upwards of 2k a month. I work in an industry that sees all of it and what it has done to companies and employees. Then, add a 8k deductible.

The ACA was not healthcare. It was a tax that was pushed through on the fear of pre-existing conditions. Then, when passed, people learned that the pre-existing condition clause meant you could not be denied not that you would be covered. So, you purchase converge but then you condition is not covered. This is the truth.

The GOP is dead. I will not vote EVER again for anyone who promotes that platform. John McCain is a f'n scumbag as well as the others. For years they used 'fear' and 'hope' and when the time comes they show their true colors.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, yeah. But my premiums have increased dramatically over the last 8 years to the point where we can't cover our OOP costs. Which was my point.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Well, yeah. But my premiums have increased dramatically over the last 8 years to the point where we can't cover our OOP costs. Which was my point.

They were already increasing before the ACA though. Everything suggests the ACA has resulted in somewhere between doing nothing to premiums, or reducing the rate of increase.

It's a very efficient implementation of health insurance. The fact that it's clearly not working is proof that insurance is not the solution to our problems.

Personally, I would like to see 50 different single payer systems implemented. One for each state. Let them compete, find what does/doesn't work, and improve over time.

a reply to: Aazadan

States should be allowed to compete. The same plan in NY cost half in Florida. Same plan. Same deductibles. Twice the price.

The ACA has also crippled businesses and caused a heavy burden that no one discusses. Each company over 50 employees has to file additional information so the government can track who has insurance...and who does not. It is data collection as much as it is a tax package.

Repealing Obamacare would do nothing but take us to square one. No one would immediately lost their coverage as it is the companies providing the coverage and not the government.

a reply to: matafuchs

It would be worse than square one. People would drop coverage because the mandate is gone, but then they would be unable to buy it again due to pre existing conditions. Almost everyone has them. You want to talk corporate slavery, being forced into a contract through the private sector is even worse than through the public sector.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Well, yeah. But my premiums have increased dramatically over the last 8 years to the point where we can't cover our OOP costs. Which was my point.

They were already increasing before the ACA though. Everything suggests the ACA has resulted in somewhere between doing nothing to premiums, or reducing the rate of increase.

I don't know... I had insurance for the last 18 years. The first 11 years saw a modest inflationary increases to my OOP costs and no real change in coverage and personal involvement.

Around 7 years ago oop costs skyrocketed, benefits where cut and I need to work as an intermediary between my insurance company and my provider to make sure all charges and payments are correct.

What happened 7 years ago that caused such a drastic change in the way my insurance works if not the ACA?

originally posted by: DanDanDat
What happened 7 years ago that caused such a drastic change in the way my insurance works if not the ACA?

Baby boomers began retiring and getting additional health screenings due to age. In addition to that, it's been an exponential process with insurance unraveling. The financial collapse that started in 2008 didn't help matters either, it started placing people in low wage service jobs where premiums became unaffordable. This resulted in a domino effect where young, healthy, people who were more likely to be in those jobs dropped out of insurance pools, which then spiked rates for everyone else (smaller pools=higher risk) such as older people in established professions who were more likely to have health coverage.

The next big issue you're going to see is that millennials are entering the family planning stages of life, that generation encompasses the current 17-34 year olds, out of which 2/3 are now in the age where they're looking to settle down and raise a family. But, that generation is also in service sector jobs where no one can afford insurance. It could branch off in a few different directions from here, but we could be setting ourselves up for a major crisis in a few years. In addition to the one we're already in.

This,

On why nothing short of demolition of medical industry will work and why nothing is being done to fix it longterm.

Donald Trump knows this; he's run a company for decades and has seen it develop in front of him. The House "Freedom Caucus" knows this; they presided over it. When I met with a bunch of Senate Staffers several years ago they all admitted they knew this and further they also admitted that they knew that the growth rate being experienced and what was happening to government-run sections of medical care would, with certainty, bankrupt the country and government. They also admitted that they knew that if they took it on they ran the risk of losing the next election and thus were going to do nothing -- intentionally -- to resolve it.

It's Over Folks

Denninger nailed the 2008 economic collapse and he's been spot "on" with his prediction and analysis of the healthcare crisis as its unfolded.

No political fix will be forthcoming from Washington until healthcare either collapses of it own dead weight or it bankrupts the government and taxpayer.

Only then due voter revolt will attempt be made to apply anti-trust laws to this industry - if anything left at that point.

Until then big push by US Chamber of Commerce, Unions and Politicians will be to cost shift the problem onto the taxpayers even knowing the result only buys a bit of time economically by promoting single payer or hybrid of it.

The end result will be devastating to most Americans.

IMHO, though well meaning, many are doing grunt work for corpratists and unionists by promoting single payer and it's hybrids without first collapsing the cost structure built on illegality. The industry and those who stand to benefit the most are cheering you on as that result will "lock in" the corruption on a permanent basis.

There once was a company called "Kaiser Permanente". They used to give health insurance to everyone, regardless of their conditions. All insurance ratings were determined on the basis of Zip Code. Nothing else.

This actually was profitable. They did just fine. The younger and healthier clients were paying enough they could afford to treat the older, less healthy ones, and still break even (they were a not-for-profit, so the best they could legally do was break even.)

Then another company moved in, and started rating on the basis of age, smoking status, and previous health conditions. Soon all the young and healthy people in the area began buying this new insurance.

Kaiser Permanente could no longer afford all those costs from their older, sicker, clients.

So Kaier Permanente hired a new team of actuaries, and began determining their rates based on all that age/health stuff too.

The end.





(And this story is actually 100% true. You can ask any member of the actuary team they hired and they'll tell you about it.)

(Also, the government can, and frequently does mandate what basis companies are allowed to use to rate customers. - Meaning, they could mandate Zip Code rating for all companies. But whoever is lobbying them would probably get mad.)

Dont forget if it survives til 2020, those with Good insurance policies will start being taxed on them.
The Cadillac tax as its referred to

a reply to: Phoenix


Great post. Medical industry as bad as insurance. Payer in the middle. More like the dumb uncle that lives in the attic. You just pay the bill and, as Al Swearengen would say, "Just pay the bill and keep you mouth shut c*********"

a reply to: matafuchs


Yea at this point dumping Obama care is not going to bring the cost down to pre Obama. Although one would think it would. LOL


By the way??? How did we ever get along for years with employer based insurance so low, pre Obama?

a reply to: DanDanDat


I understand that major underwriters invested in screwed up mortgages?

Insurance is a major scam to bleed out "cash money" in fiat money system. Same as taxes ect. Look at the largest buildings downtown.......insurance firms. Largest insurance underwriter in country had to be bailed out around 7 years ago?

"and Pharaoh ordered the Israelites to make bricks without straw"

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Well, yeah. But my premiums have increased dramatically over the last 8 years to the point where we can't cover our OOP costs. Which was my point.

Some don't want to hear that point but I do, as others. Not wanting to take this into account, in the mix, in the conversation, is because they cant bear to hear the truth and reality that they oppress while talking about others not being "oppressed".

Just toss more weight on the back of the mule. About all many understand.

originally posted by: matafuchs
What is wrong with the Healthcare system? The fact that a family like mine has to pay 1300 a month for healthcare coverage. Let that sink in. IN many states it is upwards of 2k a month. I work in an industry that sees all of it and what it has done to companies and employees. Then, add a 8k deductible.

This proves that these insensitive people "leading" will not care until the people rise up. I fear though for many reasons that the good american public will have to go many miles in hardship at the hands of slave drivers before they rise.

a reply to: BomSquad


Hell yes. And insurance is supposed to be a barely noticeable cost to portect way of life and income. Not an 2nd house payment.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: BomSquad
I feel my argument here is incomplete, but I must return to work...thank you for listening.

You can't provide yourself a gun, yet you have a right to one.

The 2nd is the right to keep and bear arms. It's recognizing your right to defend your person and property.