Have we Americans lost the plot?

Regarding health insurance and health care.

I'm going to attempt at some rudimentary math here and please, feel free to correct my work.

Government forces you to buy heath insurance + pays subsidies for poor = Insurance company win

You pay your insurance and bills + Pharmaceutical prescriptions = Insurance company and big pharma win.

Government pays subsidies + The rich pay more for better insurance = Insurance company win.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm sure you get the point. My question is, where do the American people actually get a win here. As in lower healthCARE costs, not insurance. Tax payers are hit on all sides of this and I can't find a scenario that they don't.

Mandating INSURANCE is wrong. It has been the primary driver in healthCARE costs and that is the reason INSURANCE is so expensive.

Remember Epipen guy??? Ever looked at a city skyline and notice that the largest buildings are banks and..insurance companies?

This is not a swipe at free markets either. Subsidies drive the healthCARE costs which in turn necessitates the high and mandated INSURANCE.

Solution? It would start with slashing subsidies and finding what is promoting exponential healthcare costs as the years progress.

Now I'm not dismissing another obvious caveat. The people themselves. Overweight, bad life choices (I'm part of this category btw), bad food and sedentary lifestyles. Different argument and discussion however.

a reply to: JinMI

You have it all figured out but rather present it to an audience that matters you post it on a conspiracy website.

Makes sense.

a reply to: Yourmomsentme

(we matter)

a reply to: JinMI

It really blows my mind that anyone can be behind Obamacare, especially people who claim to be "anti-fascist", some of whom have actually threatened violence, in order to maintain one of the clearest examples of a fascist policy.

The damn bill was written by and for insurance companies. Gruber actually called the average American stupid when he discussed the ever so benevolent Obamacare.

a reply to: Yourmomsentme

If I had it figured out, I would not feel the need to post. I trust and value the input of ATS denizens and their varied differences on matters.

Welcome to ATS.

a reply to: JinMI

Insurance charges enough to cover med bill and pay overhead and stake holders.

The hospital charges go up-insurance goes up. It is a vicious cycle that no one had the testicular fortitude to stop.

Can you imagine the weight that would be lifted off business's shoulders if they no longer were responsible for employees health insurance?

But why not correct Medicare. Why ad another healthcare insurance mandate. Why didn't they start with what they had.

Was it to gain profits for the government? There was a failing system in place.( fix that first )

BTW! I'm hypertensive and grossly over weight with an internet disorder! 😆😆😆

JinMI I'm just teasing ya. But lovethat you want to tackle this. COMMENCE!




Ats always messes up my thumbs up

a reply to: seasonal

It is a vicious cycle that those buying the insurance pay for. At quite a price I might add. End result is that the people lose on all fronts.

a reply to: Bigburgh

My best answer would be because it's easier to buy new than fix what you have. Imagine the deep psychological implications of that!!

Watching everyone cheer on more insurance coverage while not realizing that subsidized corporations with political interests are raking it in while churning out minimal healthcare...to those who qualify.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Yourmomsentme

(we matter)

Honestly?

I read your posts. You seem to have an opinion on almost every topic. The best you can come up with is "we matter"?

a reply to: JinMI

The insurance would not go up with out a direct and tangible up charge in medical.

For profit hospitals have to increase costs to increase the insatiable never ending quest for more profits.

I thought, and I could be wrong, that the insurance co's have to pay out 80% min in med charges for insurance claims. This means a 20% max profit. (that is a boat load)

a reply to: seasonal

If there is any proof to that, that is an insane profit margin. Especially per transaction.

a reply to: Yourmomsentme

Should I call congress?

Should I write the Pres?

Should I stand on the corner in local town hall?

Should I tell my insurance co?

What oh what should I do that would meet your idea of presenting it to an audience that "matters"?

a reply to: JinMI

I would add a couple more primary factors in out-of-control costs:

1 -- The monopolies that government regulations create which eliminate (and prevent) any competition, and therefore any incentive to keep costs down; and,
2 -- The incorporation laws which require all corporations -- including Big Pharma -- to put the financial interests of their shareholders first;

There is nothing "free" market about the medical industry.

a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent point. In a free market, the costs would be driven down by the insurance market and those who opt without.

Food for thought: Should we pick a direction and stick with it? Either no government involvement or all government controlled? This half and half scenario doesn't seem to be playing out so well.

a reply to: JinMI

While working in Healthcare. I was overpaying for an MMO and PPO. 80/20 ( $300 in to every $1000 made )1st of 7 back surgeries from lifting patients.... $93,000. on the job injury. Ho Lee Crap!

Moderator FredT needs in on this.

Next. Let your local ambulance service make you a silver member. Pay $40 a month for services your insurance already provides, or even without insurance. Essentially charging people $40 to bill your health insurance. When an Emergency service shows up..... service is BY LAW guaranteed. No refusal regardless of insurance. Hippocratic Oaths👈👈

I've seen too much abuse..

JimNI... the topic Triggers me

a reply to: Boadicea

Don't forget the insurance companies want higher costs, this increases that 20% that they can keep. So they want premiums to balloon. And they have. There are no cost controls on anything, and this is the root of the problem.

The system (now) just like fractional reserve lending is designed to have balloons and crashes.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent point. In a free market, the costs would be driven down by the insurance market and those who opt without.

Food for thought: Should we pick a direction and stick with it? Either no government involvement or all government controlled? This half and half scenario doesn't seem to be playing out so well.

I have struggled with that and the best I can come up with is a public and a private option, much like public and private schooling. And perhaps some kind of voucher program too could be worked in. All or nothing never really works out well for anyone in the end. I don't trust either government nor corporations to do what's in our best interests, so we need to have as many options and as much control as possible.

I also think that there are many ways to innovate and use modern technology to make medical care more accessible and affordable for everyone, everything from clinics at schools and other existing public buildings, to more health clinics in drug stores and Walmarts, to online doctors appointments... I'm sure there are bright minds out there with lots of great ideas for innovation and improvement -- it's just a matter of getting past that well-entrenched drug and medical lobby!

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Boadicea

Don't forget the insurance companies want higher costs, this increases that 20% that they can keep. So they want premiums to balloon. And they have. There are no cost controls on anything, and this is the root of the problem.

The system (now) just like fractional reserve lending is designed to have balloons and crashes.

Yeah, sometimes I get the feeling that insurance companies know their bubble is unsustainable and will burst sooner or later so they're just grabbing everything they can now while the gettin's still good. And I understand that health insurance as we know it is not sustainable... but their greed and avarice is unconscionable regardless.

a reply to: Boadicea


Umm, the insurance co's can only get the 20%. (supposedly)

The real thing here is medical all medical is super expensive in the US.

We lead the world in costs and are around #37 in health outcomes.

I think everyone is stuffing their pockets and kicking the golden goose in the liver so she will squeeze out just one more golden egg.