The first world war 7000 years ago?

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge


Your tell me that you believe that an advanced race never wanted to make something that would last? That they never wanted to preserve there history ?

How much of a priority has our own society given to that objective?

While we may not create anything with the specific goal of surviving 10-20-50 KA of weathering and erosion from the elements, we certainly have created feats of engineering and construction that will leave evidence of their existence many millennia into the future. If we can discern the remnants and footprint of an artificial structure dating back ~500KA before present that was built by H. Erectus in Japan then I think its incredibly devoid of plausibility to claim that a so called "advanced" civilization was able to advance to such a stage without leaving an iota of evidence, not a single artifact attributed to this magical culture. It is inconceivable for such a scenario to occur.

In modern society, all, or nearly all technology is shared with everyone.

That's only one way technology can go, and 100% of the reason it happens is because we have patent laws.

With no patent laws, inventors would keep their inventions to themselves. A small elite guild might know how electricity works, but they won't put up power lines everywhere.

Our society has created materials that can last pretty much forever. www.nanocomptech.com...

But this ancient advanced race that you believe in couldn't make even ONE item that lasts??

Maybe they built their society near the ocean, to take advantage of sea trade?

So where is the evidence of such trading? What was traded? if they were trading precious metals or weapons then where was the infrastructure to support such? Whether precious metals like gold or silver were the currency or bronze or copper in the form of weapons or farm implements, you need to mine for the materials. Mining leaves long lasting signatures of its occurrence. If they were trading food, where was the farmland? What crops were they growing domestically?

More importantly, how did this magic civilization manage to begin working metals, how did they manage to domesticate and hybridize crops when neither metal working or domestication of food crops several millennia before the earliest known occurrences in the near and middle east? And keep in mind that physical evidence of neither of the aforementioned practices, which are prerequisites for being considered a civilization, is actually required as we can discern and calculate mutation rates and the movement of various plants as they were being domesticated from one geographic location to the next.

I was watching Carl Sagan's documentary on ancient Greek steam powered engines once, and he asked an interesting question: Why didn't the inventors of this engine think of using it as a labor saving device? Instead of a toy in a temple intended to fool people?

I think in the ancient world, technology wasn't used for the purposes that we use it now. It was used to gain power.

An ancient society with advanced technology really means a small elite with advanced technology. Who uses it to maintain power over their people, and then conquer others.

I think ancient people were indeed just as smart as modern people, but their society was structured differently, and the difference in societal structure is what caused their discoveries never to go as far as they do today. But that is different from saying they didn't know stuff.

Imagine if, instead of fighting crime, Batman just wanted people to think he was a powerful wizard. He would trade for things he needed for his machines, but not in huge volumes. (He needs the ignorant masses to think it is magic, so he's not going to give them batmobiles to drive.)

More likely, the big ticket trade items would be things like slaves.

Xenophobia can be very beneficial from a security standpoint. Much of what Egypt achieved happened precisely because their geographic surroundings protected them from the outside world, making their kingdom easy to defend for thousands of years. (And saving them the cost of a large military.)

it's a little over the top to try to claim that Ancient Egypt was xenophobic. We're talking about a period of time encompassing 3000 years from the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt to the time it was incorporated into the Roman Empire. But having random, short periods of time where a specific Pharaoh enacted policies that could be considered xenophobic and trying to fold that in with geographical barriers is a pretty striking leap of logic considering that for the vast majority of Dynastic Egypt's history, foreigners were openly accepted.

The Xenophobia of the Egyptians wasn't like a policy. It was more of a cultural attitude that the rest of the world outside of egypt was mere ants. The benefit was they didn't venture out of their boundaries to try and conquer others (until Thutmose III). Most of their interaction to the North wasn't military at all, and most of their military campaigns to the south were just raids and slave grabs.

The word for "Egyptian" and "Human" was the same word. It's kind of like how China's actual name for itself is ZhongGuo or "The center land".

Then when you look at their murals, pretty much every pharaoh is shown crushing his (or her) enemies, even if they never participated in any military actions during their lifetime. That indicates something about how they saw the nearby nations that wanted a piece of their action.

In the Old Kingdom, Medjay archers were used in the Egyptian army. That doesn't play well into the idea of AE being fearful of foreigners does it?

You mean the fact they let captured slaves enter military service in order to escape slavery?

Sounds like the USA letting Mexicans earn citizenship by joining the Army.

It more likely shows the Egyptians considered themselves to be too good for military service themselves.

You are getting closer to the truths.....keeping in mind that a small group of Humans who collectively survived the last set of Global Continental Displacement Waves....did in fact keep as much high technology as they could hoard....but alas EVERYONE WAS GONE from nearly every place on Earth...it was a total wipe....and there WERE NO SLAVES TO BUILD MANUFACTURING OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE and these survivors quickly realised they would DIE before any type of rebuild of infrastructure would be able to happen and if this happened and their suppressed hidden technology was given to the dirty starving cave-man animal like survivors scavenging the remains of the Planet they would forever LOSE THEIR POWERBASE...….o they kept everything hidden for as long as it would take for the planets population to rebound enough that mining and manufacturing and technology could return....which is NOW...…


History repeats itself.

@bloodymarvelous……...TPTB who are really Anti-humanitarian terrorists.....that currently control all of the Deep Underground Bases ...have a high likelihood of ONE at least of their Bunkers surviving this incoming event.....and ANY SINGLE NEST of high technologylike that will be the catalyst of the NEXT 3657 YEAR LONG ROUND OF SUPPRESSION as THESE people then suppress and hide technology for the same reasons those before them did...to await a better day when there are more slaves bred to build toys for the elite who will just hunker down in their hidey-holes pretending they are gods and staying out of sight keeping their bloodlines intact and safe....kinda like the Royal Familys and a few others do today.

The Elite all know of the Earths Cycles....they USE US to carry on their own bloodlines all along claiming to themselves they do it for the good of humanity....when they know full well we could build craft and save BILLIONS of people from the incoming Earth changes...these MONSTERS have CHOSEN to sacrifice BILLIONS OF PEOPLE......they CHOOSE THIS....because they have knowledge....we bicker and argue and our most highly educated minds are poisoned by vanity and they fail to listen to those with enough imagination intuition and empathy to see the bigger picture...just as the Anti-Humanitarian terrorists have planned it to be.

originally posted by: one4all

You are getting closer to the truths.....keeping in mind that a small group of Humans who collectively survived the last set of Global Continental Displacement Waves....did in fact keep as much high technology as they could hoard....but alas EVERYONE WAS GONE from nearly every place on Earth...it was a total wipe....and there WERE NO SLAVES TO BUILD MANUFACTURING OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE and these survivors quickly realised they would DIE before any type of rebuild of infrastructure would be able to happen and if this happened and their suppressed hidden technology was given to the dirty starving cave-man animal like survivors scavenging the remains of the Planet they would forever LOSE THEIR POWERBASE...….o they kept everything hidden for as long as it would take for the planets population to rebound enough that mining and manufacturing and technology could return....which is NOW...…


History repeats itself.

That's what seems to get forgotten in these discussions. After a big cataclysm people wouldn't be going back to hunting and gathering due to having immediately forgotten how to farm.

They would go back to hunting and gathering because they need food right now. They can't wait for later on, when the population is bigger. The adults of the group may have mad tech skills, but the children mostly get taught how to fight and how to survive. Why? Because above all else, a parent desires for their child to survive. Having them know some fancy skill is a luxury. Also even if the parent knows a lot about engineering or science, that doesn't automatically make them a great teacher.


I'm about three seasons into watching the "Walking Dead" series on Netflix. Something I've noticed about the old man who is a veterinarian (closest thing to a doctor in the community) - he hasn't taught his children how to do it yet. He probably couldn't teach them enough to be a full vet like he is. Also there was an engineer in a town that got set up. He didn't have any apprentices.

That is, of course, a work of fiction, but it does a good job of demonstrating how skills would tend to get lost if people had to focus on bare survival for too long.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: one4all

You are getting closer to the truths.....keeping in mind that a small group of Humans who collectively survived the last set of Global Continental Displacement Waves....did in fact keep as much high technology as they could hoard....but alas EVERYONE WAS GONE from nearly every place on Earth...it was a total wipe....and there WERE NO SLAVES TO BUILD MANUFACTURING OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE and these survivors quickly realised they would DIE before any type of rebuild of infrastructure would be able to happen and if this happened and their suppressed hidden technology was given to the dirty starving cave-man animal like survivors scavenging the remains of the Planet they would forever LOSE THEIR POWERBASE...….o they kept everything hidden for as long as it would take for the planets population to rebound enough that mining and manufacturing and technology could return....which is NOW...…


History repeats itself.

That's what seems to get forgotten in these discussions. After a big cataclysm people wouldn't be going back to hunting and gathering due to having immediately forgotten how to farm.

They would go back to hunting and gathering because they need food right now. They can't wait for later on, when the population is bigger. The adults of the group may have mad tech skills, but the children mostly get taught how to fight and how to survive. Why? Because above all else, a parent desires for their child to survive. Having them know some fancy skill is a luxury. Also even if the parent knows a lot about engineering or science, that doesn't automatically make them a great teacher.


I'm about three seasons into watching the "Walking Dead" series on Netflix. Something I've noticed about the old man who is a veterinarian (closest thing to a doctor in the community) - he hasn't taught his children how to do it yet. He probably couldn't teach them enough to be a full vet like he is. Also there was an engineer in a town that got set up. He didn't have any apprentices.

That is, of course, a work of fiction, but it does a good job of demonstrating how skills would tend to get lost if people had to focus on bare survival for too long.

IMHO all of the Survival apocalypse end of the world type shows are being put on television and in movies to teach us ready-now skills at the last moment by what some call the Whitehats or IMHO the group who has remained as powerfull and hidden as the global cabal who has been screwing us all....knowledge is power and never moreso than post-event here on Earth.


According to my model most of the Continents will be under water or mud...there will be little to zero SCAVENGING...and little to no wildlife or greenery available....just massive thousand mile long mudflats......no books...none …. teaching kids will be a critical component of our recovery post-event....written language will be paramount to teach.

There are lots of videos online about primitive Technology in which modern concepts and science are expressed using PRIMITIVE TECHNOLOGY....EXACTLY like we will have to be doing ASAP...passing on major concepts without the materials we are used to using....making sure the positive impacts are there....an especially important one considering salt water will be covering and contaminating everything is this....www.youtube.com...

Hostile nuclear war. Are the Gods any better than us? Did we learn this from them? Round and round she goes.

a reply to: korath

Hostile nuclear war.

As opposed to the other sort of nuclear war?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: korath

Hostile nuclear war.

As opposed to the other sort of nuclear war?

Yeah, the other nuclear war, wink wink.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Other sort.
The sort that isn't hostile.

You know, the benevolent sort.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Other sort.
The sort that isn't hostile.

You know, the benevolent sort.

Ah, you mean the mythical non hostile wars. Ok.

If the gods had nukes so long ago, it make me wonder what kind of weapons they have now. And if they have weapons worse than nukes, who are they up against? Maybe it's not so peaceful out there after all.

originally posted by: korath
If the gods had nukes so long ago, it make me wonder what kind of weapons they have now.

This came to me in a vision a few years ago.
The Gods these days do have new weapons.

They call one of them the "Korath Obliterator," whatever that means.

Harte

a reply to: korath

You cannot have a nuclear civilization in a bubble.. it takes a global civilization.



There is no scenerio where there was a global civilization here before us.


It takes copper from main, uranium from Africa, zinc from Brazil..

There would still be nuts and bolts being found daily.. little pieces of plastic that don’t bio degrade..



If all the humans vanished in 1945, when we created nukes. How long would it take for the world to TOTALLY erase us???


Maybe never..

This planet won’t firget we were her until basically every square inch of the earths crust is recycled..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

It also takes a tremendous amount of energy, nearly the entire electrical output of the TVA wemt into the Oakridge labs, and that is just one of the labs, then there was hanford, and the YUGE dam at the dalles on the columbia to power that.
You have to add all of the infrastructure to build the power plants, that would include the factories for the equipment needed then theres all the infrastructure to support the workforce.
Energy to drive all as well adds to the footprint that would he left behind

Some of the waste products will be hot for longer than man has been on the earth.
And some of the materials will effectively be here for tens of millions of years.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: korath

You cannot have a nuclear civilization in a bubble.. it takes a global civilization.



There is no scenerio where there was a global civilization here before us.


It takes copper from main, uranium from Africa, zinc from Brazil..

That is a good point. The deposits of appropriate materials don't all occur in the same area.

However, gold has been a treasured metal as long as anyone can remember, which is usually accompanied by copper. So that element can be stricken from the list. Zinc mixes with it to form Brass, so if we found brass artifacts (which would mostly just be piles of corroded dust) that would give us everything except uranium.

There would still be nuts and bolts being found daily.. little pieces of plastic that don’t bio degrade..

That assumes that plastic was among their technologies. An "advanced" culture doesn't automatically mean they are an exact copy of our modern world.

We could still have technologies they never discovered. And they could have technologies we've never discovered.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: JoshuaCox

It also takes a tremendous amount of energy, nearly the entire electrical output of the TVA wemt into the Oakridge labs, and that is just one of the labs, then there was hanford, and the YUGE dam at the dalles on the columbia to power that.
You have to add all of the infrastructure to build the power plants, that would include the factories for the equipment needed then theres all the infrastructure to support the workforce.
Energy to drive all as well adds to the footprint that would he left behind

Some of the waste products will be hot for longer than man has been on the earth.
And some of the materials will effectively be here for tens of millions of years.

That assumes they used the same method of refining uranium as we have. We melt it down, or vaporize it, and then put it in a powerful centrifuge to separate the U235 from the U238 by mass.

There difference in mass is only slightly greater than 1%, so it takes quite a lot of force to make it separate that way.

If they found another way to separate it, then the power output requirement could have been very different for them.


... Or also if you believe the Great Pyramid was a huge power plant, then I guess there is that possibility. (I don't personally believe that was its purpose, but I can't rule it out. )

a reply to: proteus33

"a reply to: whywhynotwell where i live in nc we have a problem with scrapers stealing every bit of metal they can. i came home from vacation a few years ago and found that two old tim covered sheds on my property were now just wooden frames and the well pump to the no longer in use well had been snatched off the ground and stolen as well. my family had a beach house and scrapers did same thing to it when i was a kid we showed up to spend summer there to find a pile of boards and thats a current thing. so thing about it after something has been abandoned whats to keep future generations for destroying it for building supplies heck there was an article up here a few years ago about an ancient temple in south america a contractor knocked down with bulldozers for stone to make gravel for a road. so it really ism't that hard to believe there isn't much remnants of ancient cultures to be found. "

This. An exceptionally relevant observation. People have been "borrowing" from fallen structures and from the creations and wreckage of fallen peoples, civilizations, and their more advanced neighbors that came upon misfortune forever. You can find examples everywhere. From using shaped stone in castle walls for their cottage to recycling forged metals, not an expert but I've seen this in my travels with my own eyes. Hell, people live on top of past settlements and bury them faster. Look at the history they keep unearthing in Israel right under their feet where they decide to do any excavation/construction..
Humans have always been able scavengers and if they couldn't understand it or duplicate the grand use it served before they would nonetheless re-purpose it to save their own labor thereby.

originally posted by: korath
Hostile nuclear war. Are the Gods any better than us? Did we learn this from them? Round and round she goes.

Depends. What does "better" mean? More Jesus Christ- like?

Has it occurred to you that religion might be a propaganda tool in place to keep us from fighting for our freedom? That nobody out in space really thinks the Christian way of life is the way of higher societies? Just laughing that we lay down like lambs to be slaughtered.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: korath

Hostile nuclear war.

As opposed to the other sort of nuclear war?

Yes the kind that comes with a side salad.

a reply to: Hanslune


I just came across this depiction of a Bicycle carved on the wall of a two thousand year old Indian temple. The Bike by many definitions is the perfect machine, it has to have certain things common to make it work, two wheels handlebar and frame

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Hanslune


I just came across this depiction of a Bicycle carved on the wall of a two thousand year old Indian temple. The Bike by many definitions is the perfect machine, it has to have certain things common to make it work, two wheels handlebar and frame

Actually it was first constructed about 1,300-1,500 years ago. It an interesting carving.

Either it was from a repair in the last two centuries, some sort of fraud or it's a bad distortion of a wagon or cart or some other type of technology. If none of these are right then its might be a bicycle unfortunately there is no sign of that technology anywhere in the literature of the time or in the archaeology.

I would wonder why a carving like that would be in a temple of that kind. It would be interesting to see the other carvings in the temple and specifically around that pillar.

However the papers in Hindu seem to hint at the repair idea.

Through multiple forays into the history of the bicycle (which was invented in Germany in 1800s), and the Chola-era Woraiyur temple, he theorised that the vehicle was possibly a novelty in Tiruchi of the 1920s, when the temple had been renovated. “Perhaps the sculptor had seen someone on a cycle, was impressed by it and had recorded it forever on stone,” says Dr. Kalaikovan. “After this I got so interested in temple history, that I could no longer leave it.

www.thehindu.com...

www.skyscrapercity.com...

...so if it was repaired in the 1920's that would account for a bicycle. One could research this by examining the Temple records or viewing newspaper reports from that time period to learn the nature of the repairs.

a reply to: whywhynot

1). For me it is easier to believe that an alien spacecraft crashed there. It had atomic drives and/or weapons and they exploded on impact. Easier rather than mankind had developed a technical ability to create an atomic weapon with all of the ancillary infrastructure that goes with it but yet there is no archeological record of that advanced civilization.

What little I know of Nuclear weapons is that you need to an explosion in a chamber to start the fission process. They wouldn't explode on impact necessarily.

And any advanced civ may have turned to glass...
www.dailystar.co.uk...

Ancient Hindu texts describe a global disaster caused by an “unknown weapon, a ray of Iron”. Some believe the proof of such a catastrophe is what is known as the Libyan Desert Glass, which was formed sometime between 26-28 million years ago. Fragments of this glass can be found over an area of 10sq kms on the Egypt-Libya border, one stunning piece was also found in Tutankhamen’s brooch.

Many scientists believe the glass was formed by a comet entering the earth’s atmosphere, which heated up the sand beneath to a temperature of 200 degrees Celsius. But this theory has been disputed

Engineer Albion W.Hart from Massachusetts Institute of Technology said the chunks of glass left by nuclear tests in Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA, were the same as those found in the Libyan desert.

And it is claimed that there’s no evidence of a gigantic meteorite impact in the Libyan Desert Glass zone and the glass rocks have a grade of transparency and purity (99%) which is not typical in the fusions of fallen meteorites.

A huge area of strange fused silica glass has also been found in the Gobi Desert in Mongolia, including layers at Lop Nor in neighbouring China.