Statue of Confederate General R.E.Lee Removed.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: oddnutz

What's next?
The removal of George Washington statues?

He was a slave owner, get ready.

Old George didn't commit treason against America like Robbie did now did he?

Indeed he did. Against the authorities that existed at the time anyway. The government of the thirteen colonies would definitely view him as a traitor.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Thats a very northern point of view. The confederacy was dead wrong about slavery, but the war was one of northern aggression, branded as a war against slavery midway through. Defending ones home, and what could have been seen as country, was entirely American. It could even be construed that the northern states violated the contract of the land, and thus were the un-American ones. It really depends a lot upon ones point of view in this case.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Kali74

Is this a right/left thing? I didn't get the memo.

Funnily enough, I agree with your opening sentence as it applies to the federal gov't!

Correct, right wingers are essentially what is left of the confederacy

Seriously, think about it.

Right wingers clamor for smaller government, states rights, and all the racist orgs support the right wing candidates.

Im not even making a joke right now. When you simplify it, thats exactly what it is.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Irrelevant to the topic but I'll play. Those are programs that benefit people regardless of demographic. The elected City Council voted 6-1 to remove the monuments, that's representative taxation in action.

Where were the monuments to slave rebellions, to the slaves that died fighting for their freedom? What about black southern history and culture?

a reply to: strongfp

I think the way I would fall on this issue, has largely to do with whether the statues will be erected someplace else, or whether they will, collectively, be destroyed.

In my view, wanting to move a sculpture from one location to another is a fair call to make, since the appropriateness of an objects placement may change during a period of time. But to remove the monument and then fail to place it somewhere else, somewhere it could still serve in its capacity as a reminder to all of both the martial prowess of the individual depicted, but also the folly bound up in the period, would be a massive waste.

If the statues end up as part of a display at a museum or some other similar location, that would make perfect sense. But to simply remove them from station and destroy them, or hide them away, would be no more sensible than ISIS blowing up countless sites of historical interest in the Middle East. All it will do is promote a kind of ignorance which does future generations no good at all. I have said it before, and will no doubt have to say it many more times before I cease to speak at all, but it really cannot be overstated that to erase or ignore history is to doom ones species to repeat it.

I think we can all agree that a repeat of the period in question would be less than favourable for all participants, so it is vital that these statues continue to exist in some form, are found a place in which they can be re-located which alters the context within which one looks upon them, perhaps in an educational setting of some sort.

originally posted by: pirhanna
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Thats a very northern point of view. The confederacy was dead wrong about slavery, but the war was one of northern aggression, branded as a war against slavery midway through. Defending ones home, and what could have been seen as country, was entirely American. It could even be construed that the northern states violated the contract of the land, and thus were the un-American ones. It really depends a lot upon ones point of view in this case.

I'm sorry, but no. The war started because the South panicked at the election of Lincoln and seceded to preserve the institution of slavery. Slavery was the prime cause of the war. They said so - please read the articles of secession from States like South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi. Not to mention the Cornerstone Speech by Alexander Stephens.

Imagine, Germany doing away with holocaust statues and sites. Imagine the outcry.

originally posted by: verschickter
Imagine, Germany doing away with holocaust statues and sites. Imagine the outcry.

That is so far off topic that I'm not going to even go there. Try again with a different metaphor.

originally posted by: Bone75
What's sad is hardly anyone showed up to protest or say goodbye.

We've been subdued.

Could it be that, in reality, not many people care one way or the other?

People are perfectly able to learn history without idols anyway.

When a statue that has been there for centuries triggers your senses, you know you have a deep problem...

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
Yet you are somehow replying to me???

Why do you consider this offtopic? It was a war, it was in the past, and now history reminders are slowly being removed.

Lol @ liberals suddenly demanding everything confederate-related be removed, after it became a hip, TRENDY, BANDWAGON to jump on. Fake ass disdain. You went your ENTIRE lives without being offended by it -- until someone came along and turned it into the stupid, pointless, trend we see today.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The monuments will be auctioned off to non profits with the provision that they will not be placed on public land. I'm sure some private Heritage club will buy them and display them.

a reply to: Teikiatsu
Pyramids not slave monuments, nor was even built by slaves, off season farmers, worked on such projects, artists and specialist worked full time, workers organized strikes when dissatisfied the movies were just plain wrong.

Screw the whole 'erasing history' nonsense. People who come in second place should not get statues.

Coffee is for closers.

originally posted by: verschickter
Imagine, Germany doing away with holocaust statues and sites. Imagine the outcry.

Imagine finding a statue of a Nazi in Germany.

a reply to: Spider879
More valid that the other ones comment. Let´s take it from this angle:

Shouldn´t history be preserved, to not repeat again? Isn´t that the exact same justification others use to tell us Germans when we dare to complain, because we are fed up hearing about what our fathers and grandfathers did wrong, although, aknowledging it was wrong.

Sure, my comparision lacks a bit, but it has a core to think about.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: strongfp

The real problem I have with all the confederate stuff is 2 fold..

A) from an americans pov it is glorifying treason...

If the plaque read..

"Rebeled against his native country leading to the deaths of thousands of US service members, while being a pretty damn good tactician ..except for that whole gettysburg fiasco .. he totally blew that..."

That is patriotically remembering your history..

However that's not what we have here.. which leads me perfectly into ...

B) if you look at the dates on all these schools, monuments and parks "creation date" or date of the name change..

They ALL started and usually can be directly traced to the push back from civil rights..
No one glorified the confederacy before then.. they had just rebelled leading to tens of thousands of deaths..

As a middle finger to segregation and civil rights you had revisonist history statues and monuments pop up like weeds..



So there isn't a glorious history to protect.. it is protecting a very specific FU meant to tell the world they will not intergrate quietly.

If You actually opened up a damn history book then You would know that people back then were citizens of their perspective states and the idea of us didn't quite sink in yet.

originally posted by: strongfp
I am not sure how I feel about this. But, the statue in New Orleans of removed, the final of , a very controversial subject in today's world. Especially American life.
Anyways. From what I know. loved homeland of Virginia, and would do anything for it.
with intentions of protecting his home state, and got caught up in a situation and legacy.
A letter to wife:
What say you ATS. Please, leave current politics out of this.

I just took your OP and removed only the words that I found offensive, but you can still read it.

This whole removing history because you are triggered by it is a slippery slope