Trump in NYC says Australia has better health care -- it has a universal coverage system

This is disgusting socialized medicine he's talking about, the same kind of crap the awful libtards have been trying to foist on people for years! I'd rather a million people die than one cent of my hard earned money go to keeping them healthy. Let them die, and decrease the surplus population!

That being said, Trump is probably the smartest person to ever hold office (likely the smartest leader in history), so if he thinks its a good idea I trust him.

a reply to: dragonridr

Donald Trump Embraces Wider Use of Stop-and-Frisk by Police

Trump calls for nationwide 'stop-and-frisk' policy

you should know that betting is against my religion. However, that executive order (13673) was passed along with Executive Order 13672, which prohibited contractors from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. So 13673 was meant to provide teeth to ensure things like those mentioned in 13672 were enforced.

Trump rescinded the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces order, also known as Executive Order 13673, that President Obama issued in 2014. That order required companies wishing to contract with the federal government to show that they’ve complied with various federal laws and other executive orders. Notably, Obama issued that order in tandem with Executive Order 13672, which prohibited contractors from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Executive Order 13673 was enjoined by a federal judge in Texas back in October, but had it been implemented, it would have improved accountability for businesses that contract with the federal government. Enforcement of 13672, the LGBT protections, does not require this order, but would have been stronger with it. Whatever its fate in court may have been, it’s now gone forever.

Trump revokes executive order, weakens protections for LGBT workers

So yeah, I shouldn't have said it provided protections. I should've said it helped provide enforcement of the protections placed in the other executive order that was signed along with it. Either way, it shows that Trump's actual policy was not the same as Democrats on this issue, which was your false point.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Do you think the scare tactics about universal (medicare option) care for all is wearing off?

For everyone who says it is going to wreck the health care system, guess what... It is currently being wrecked. It is going to collapse.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

You just can't wrap your head around this... I totally see where you are coming from dude, but you are seeing this from a purely American point of view.

What you people can't seem to wrap your heads around is alot of us here in the usofa do not care what the rest of the world thinks. We worked hard to be able to have a purely american point of view and enjoy using it.

a reply to: seasonal

You know, I actually do, if only because I've seen some of the staunchest conservative commentators on this board make allusions to that very fact (something I would have thought impossible even just 5 years ago). My sarcastic hyperbole aside, I'd like to think eventually we can all agree that everyone would like to have healthcare access free of financial limitations outside of our control. That doesn't necessarily have to be a 'hand-out' or 'free-ride' system, but rather that the intent and spirit of the endeavor is to make sure that not one person would ever avoid preventative medical action or serious medical needs due to financial insolvency.

As I had hoped my exaggerated post above would help elucidate, its hard to imagine an individual so cold-blooded/heartless that that opinion would be theirs.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Again your wrong i explained the order and it doesnt stop any protections for the LGBT communities. They are protected under the Civil Rights Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Age Discrimination in Employment Act. All of which covers everything except gender identity. The executive order he removed didnt either but did require alot of aditional paperwork for government contractors. You were mislead by fear mongering as you appear to be on many topics.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: seasonal

You know, I actually do, if only because I've seen some of the staunchest conservative commentators on this board make allusions to that very fact (something I would have thought impossible even just 5 years ago). My sarcastic hyperbole aside, I'd like to think eventually we can all agree that everyone would like to have healthcare access free of financial limitations outside of our control. That doesn't necessarily have to be a 'hand-out' or 'free-ride' system, but rather that the intent and spirit of the endeavor is to make sure that not one person would ever avoid preventative medical action or serious medical needs due to financial insolvency.

As I had hoped my exaggerated post above would help elucidate, its hard to imagine an individual so cold-blooded/heartless that that opinion would be theirs.

They will remember when obama care started they were talking just removing it. Now they realize the american people dont want the old health care system. So they are forced to implement most of obama care in there bill as well. Let be honest Republicans never cared about pre existing conditions until they saw voters do.Its very strange for me to see republicans to start coming around to my way of thinking lol

a reply to: seasonal

BS. I talked with a corp mate in EVE Online years ago who lives in Australia. She was waiting on a waiting list for months to see a doctor at a military base. She didn't have a local doctor in her area and had to go see the one at the base. I remember her complaining about it nearly the whole time I was in that corp.

All the time we get crap about how great socialist medicine is, but if you talk to locals in these places you hear horror stories about waiting lists and healthcare rationing.

The nice thing about capitalism is that if you have money, you can buy a service right now.

I don't want government involved in my healthcare. I don't want waiting lists. I don't want my services to be rationed. I want good old-fashioned capitalist healthcare. Keep the government out of it.

a reply to: peskyhumans

So you think healthcare for the rich only is superior to mediocre healthcare for all?

Obviously you must have never heard of a healthcare horror story here in the States (or have conveniently chosen to omit/forget it to further reinforce your own views).

I think in an effort to remain clear of hypocrisy from your previous statement you need to admit that if for whatever reason you run out of money, then get sick, you deserve to die. Correct?

originally posted by: peskyhumans
a reply to: seasonal

BS. I talked with a corp mate in EVE Online years ago who lives in Australia. She was waiting on a waiting list for months to see a doctor at a military base. She didn't have a local doctor in her area and had to go see the one at the base. I remember her complaining about it nearly the whole time I was in that corp.

All the time we get crap about how great socialist medicine is, but if you talk to locals in these places you hear horror stories about waiting lists and healthcare rationing.

The nice thing about capitalism is that if you have money, you can buy a service right now.

I don't want government involved in my healthcare. I don't want waiting lists. I don't want my services to be rationed. I want good old-fashioned capitalist healthcare. Keep the government out of it.

I wouldnt complain to much Australia is not single payer. They use something similar to Obama care the state picks up about 80 percent of the costs, The individual can either pay the rest or get health coverage to cover the remainder. The advantage is at most may owe a couple of grand that you can deduct from taxes.

Private health care depends on out of sight out of mind......

If someone was dying and in severe pain does a civilised society allow that to continue if that person has no money?

Answers on a postcard please.

Here's mine : No it doesn't unfortunately such people suffer and die behind close doors so all the defenders of private healthcare don't have to witness the consequences of such a system.

I have a couple of questions for those in other countries that have State health care:

**First, it isn't really free, is it? I mean, you pay the government a tax instead of paying a private insurance company a premium....correct? How much is that tax per year? (At least with insurance companies, you can shop a competitor for better deals and services.)

We have Medicare in America for older citizens drawing Social Security, but the government still takes out $100 per month (tax) for it, not to mention the fact that for decades they took out a Medicare Tax from your paycheck. Medicare will pay 80% of medical costs, but some things are not covered, so a supplemental insurance policy is required to pick up what Medicare doesn't pay. Depending on the type of coverage you select, that can cost about $200-350 per month.

**Secondly, does a person willing to live in his/her parent's basement till they're 40 years old playing video games and mooching off mom and dad, get the same coverage as everyone else?

**Thirdly, since government bureaucrats manage the system, how much waste, fraud, and abuse is there? Just in Medicare and Medicaid (the program for low income and needy people) tens of billions of dollars are wasted yearly. And, of course, this is taxpayer money....money we give the government to manage and dispense.

Why anybody would want government bureaucrats as the go-between is beyond me. But, if that is all you have ever known, I guess you wouldn't care.

Personally, i can't argue that universal coverage is "better" than the US system of profiteering off the sick and infirm.

I am a social anarchist, and have a huge rift of dissonance on this subject because of it. At the end of it all, however, I think a compassionate society would seek to help the weak and infirm, not profit from them. But our entire economy is like this, with all goods being disposable and with an annual planned obsolescence.

Its meant to drive the populace like slaves in order to collect from them with a meter at every turn. If that is what capitalism is, i don't know that I want it. That said...what the hell other options are there?

originally posted by: Wayfarer
This is disgusting socialized medicine he's talking about, the same kind of crap the awful libtards have been trying to foist on people for years! I'd rather a million people die than one cent of my hard earned money go to keeping them healthy. Let them die, and decrease the surplus population!

That being said, Trump is probably the smartest person to ever hold office (likely the smartest leader in history), so if he thinks its a good idea I trust him.

I want to thank you for expressing the ultimate Truth. "President" just simply isn't descriptive enough. I suggest that he should now be refereed to as OUR Savior. I suggest we abandon all insurance and medical practices in favor of "the laying on of hands" for the faithful. Everyone else is SOL.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Bottom up structured socialism derived from a restricted republic approach. Make the legislators pay be minimum wage (and we will see how fast it is raised for all). Make the legislators health-care the lowest common denominator (impoverished equivalent), and we will see universal all inclusive healthcare covered for no additional taxes (but rather simply not building an extra carrier strike group that year). Only when the people responsible for the laws are actively suffering will they endeavor to fix them for the good of all.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Charlyboy

you cant have "free healthcare" if your govt collects taxes to pay for it
free does not work like that

There's no such thing as "FREE", especially not on an industrial scale. That's about as big of a delusion as the idea that minorities CANT be racist.

There's only one reason that us foreigners might be referring to our healthcare as 'free'...and that's because it's painless to us. it's covered out of our taxes...even the indigent buy taxable stuff, and that contributes to the pool. The American health care system is crap, and Trumpcare is merely polishing a turd.
Oh...but our taxes rates are so high? Our standard of living is at least as good as the US...and that's including universal health care!
You're being gamed, folks!

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I feel sick, you and I have agreed on a number of issues lately. What the hell is going on?

I think I am wising up.

The doom of universal health care is coming from the the US "free press" that is owned by corps that reap huge profits from the medical industry.

And the US health system is going to collapse, it has to. And polishing a turd is not going to get it done.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I feel sick, you and I have agreed on a number of issues lately. What the hell is going on?

I think I am wising up.

The doom of universal health care is coming from the the US "free press" that is owned by corps that reap huge profits from the medical industry.

And the US health system is going to collapse, it has to. And polishing a turd is not going to get it done.

I feel your pain, dude! But you guys deserve better health care than you have. There are lots of options out there...and wtf is 'deductible'?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

A deductible is per person and per family.

Let's say you pay $900 a month for your family of 4 to enjoy having health insurance.

You see the Dr. pay a co-pay ($30) per visit and then you pay cash until a certain amount (deductible) is met. Usually $2.000 to $4000 per family member.

There is also a family deductible limit like $10,000 per year. Then it is an 80/20 split.

I can't remember if medications are included in this goat screw or not.

The system is f'ed.

a reply to: MOMof3

It's not your fault.

Your education system is very cultish and you are taught to believe from day one that you are living on the best country on earth.

We NEVER hear our leaders tell us that Australia is the best country on earth. We are not constantly told we live in the best country in school either.

You are conditioned to believe it and live in an insulated bubble. Just like Russians really.