schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

a reply to: crazyewok

What's ebonics? who's ebonics? when's ebonics?

There is a reason why there is a decline in the learning of English and it's called $.H.!.T-Short Hand Internet Terminology. When your bae H8's da movie u watch that is 2 bad? rofl.

If i were you I'd challenge the syllabus and demand that if a middle school kid can't spell a three syllable word then me fail English (which is unpossible) or you could give the children a exam where the students have to write a haiku to pass.

Why a haiku? let me explain.

One: Haikus are fun
Two: Their English could improve
Five: I cannot count.

It's either that make them write a poem where the words rhyme, however that poses a problem as cat rhymes with hat.

Good luck with the teaching.

Oh my god. And the southern drawl and dialect is made from culture too. There was not a southern drawl until the 19th century. I ain't never hered anythang so stupid as a southern drawl. Had one my whole life thanks to my peers I grew up with.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

Would you denounce a student with a speech impediment? Does that qualify as "jibber-jabber"? What about a thick accent from a kid whose first language is not English? Would you make them also bow to your lofty demands that you're students only speak perfect, clear English?

crazyewok does not appear to be making "lofty demands". They appear to be expecting their students to make their best effort. A student who is capable of talking like a normal human being yet, for some God-forsaken reason, decides to talk like a mentally retarded tin of alphabetti spaghetti with half the word-endings missing, is not making their best effort.

Respect for the teacher should come before any demands for pandering to personal idiocies. If the student thinks this is unfair, tough, it's a good life lesson for succeeding in the future. If they object that strongly, they can become teachers and run their own classrooms how they like.

As a parent, I am in 100% support of crazyewok's stated approach to teaching. I'm raising my children to conquer the world, because they are British (by the grace of God) which makes universal domination their birthright. They can't do that as effectively if they talk like a distempered panda being beaten with a bag of spanners.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: dragonridr

For the same reason, using anything but the English language in an English language class, is nothing more than a total failure to engage with the material.

For no other reason than I'm feeling unusually argumentative today, I should point out that I'm sure we both spent a lot of time speaking English in French language classes - otherwise we would never have learned how to actually speak French in the measly hour or two a week that was scheduled for foreign languages...

a reply to: EvillerBob

But I never gave answers in a French test, which demanded a response in French, in some cant constructed of Cyrillic Russian and French, or French plus emojis, or modern French Verlan either. I would however use the correct language, the one I was actually there to learn.

Its one thing kids communicating questions to their teachers in the parlance with which they are most familiar, but quite another to turn the street talk into the language being taught in mainstream schools. There is a place for that sort of education, and that is in a place of higher learning, as a part of a broader exploration of language and its evolution, as a step on the road toward a professorship in cultural anthropology and languages, BUT NOT AS PART OF AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE CLASS!

originally posted by: Plotus
Ubonics, It be da rode 2 suksess.....

Why not just a series of grunts and clicks they really shouldn't over tax themselves. 'My mama says stupid is as stupid does"

MLK - yo, I haz dream, bro
.
.
.

Doesn't have quite the same impact, does it?

a reply to: TrueBrit
"There is a place for that sort of education, and that is in a place of higher learning, as a part of a broader exploration of language and its evolution, as a step on the road toward a professorship in cultural anthropology and languages, BUT NOT AS PART OF AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE CLASS! "

I'm not sure. English class is boring as heck to most students, this could make it more interesting. I wonder how many can diagram a sentence. I'm older and see it from a different perspective. The US is young compared Europe. We have first hand witness of how a dialect, slang or new language develops through written history.

Good thread. I can tell you from personal experience I immediately question the intelligence of anyone that uses the word "aks" instead of "ask".

This isn't a word that hard to say either.

I have no problem with people speaking how they speak on their own time. I do have a problem with it being taught in schools. As far as this argument goes, I would say this is more of a "extracurricular" type of program similar to those that bring their kids to get help with speech impediments. That or make it an elective course.

I can only imagine the workforce if they started teaching this. It would likely result in a LOT of lost business for business owners as it would likely be something written in that you can't discriminate against. The problem is that the customer can choose not to go back when they can't understand what is said or written for them.

a reply to: berenike

No, it most certainly does not.

That speech, apart from being one of the most important speeches of its century, perhaps of all time in some respects, could be read in an English language class, as an example, a perfect, glittering and beautiful example of persuasive writing. It would also be an example of precisely why English language ought to be taught the way it is. Martin Luther King Jnr, was a fantastic speaker, an expert constructor of argument, and his use of language was exquisite.

I cannot help but wonder, if MLK was alive today, how he would respond to young people, actively shirking and shying away from the education that he and his contemporaries made massive steps to guarantee them. I cannot help but wonder what he would say, about kids whose rights he and his contemporaries fought for, throwing away the language he used to help civil rights move forward. From everything I have ever read of the man, I doubt he would see things from the point of view of the complaining fools who believe that Ebonics and BEV belongs in an English class room.

a reply to: MOMof3

MOMof3,

I know what being at school is like. Its a bummer, even if it is not a violent clusterbang of an institution, full of armed sociopaths and run by clueless pencil pushers.

However, when a student finds a class boring, the answer is to change THE WAY it is taught, not WHAT is being taught. English language has some very specific elements, without which it is no longer English language. The parameters of what is being taught, the curriculum that is, must NEVER be changed, simply because people find absorbing it tedious. Absorbing ANY information in an organised setting, in a class room setting, is ALWAYS tedious, ESPECIALLY if the teacher happens to have one of those voices that comes in handy when its time to anesthetise a room full of people, without leaving any marks on them.

BUT CHANGING THE LESSON BEING TAUGHT IS NOT A SOLUTION WORTH A DAMN!

a reply to: JDmOKI

You should talk to a Newfoundlander..lol I love my Newfie friend's but they have their own dialect going on good luck figuring out whats going on when they speak amongst themselves.

I have a "side" im on here...but to play devils advocate....


....should the goal to be to teach students the most knowledge? Or to make them conform to societal norms?

a reply to: PsychicCroMag

It was just a few thousand years ago that our ancestors were using primitive grunts too communicate ....

originally posted by: crazyewok
Ebonics is NOT a language! Its just a bunch of jumbled nonsense because certain people are to stupid and lazy to speak correct English.

Well, to be fair, American English really isn't "correct" English, either, but I fully grasp your point. Our version of English still follows formal rules, many of which still exist "across the pond" and were originated there.

Yes, ebonics (I refuse to capitalize that, as I don't see it as a proper noun) is an excuse to have a language that can be shown to have evolved due to lack of education in the proper use of English recognized officially--and in an institute of learning, no less.

I fully agree with you, though, that this really is publicly saying that we must lower our standards in our school systems because a certain segment of our population is too unintelligent to speak properly, therefore we must bow to their possible hurt feelings.

Keep in mind that the article notes that this thesis of hers is based on interviewing three people.

Three.

But in an education system that even entertains the idea that recognizing ebonics as a language is something to consider, should we be surprised that someone would base an all-encompassing idea for the nation based on three opinions?

Our education system truly is a failure. I'm so glad that my wife has stepped up to homeschool our son for the past 5 years.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
You know the answer to that--it's the education sector of America.

That's not playing devil's advocate...your question sounds suspiciously like a passive aggressive way to find the uninformed on this thread

But after having eight years with a president who once was (and apparently is again) a community organizer, is it any surprise that there are some scholastic institutions willing to put localized societal norms above actual education?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
You give the child the best tools to succeed in society.

If you are holding them back, that's on you.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I grew up on the border where 2 languages was the norm. So my experience here is likely not the same as most of Americans experiences.

So much baggage lugged around in this country. I wish everyone would just set it down and move on.

a reply to: Martin75

As a Texan, i've had plenty of opportunities to be called nasty things by New Yorkers who didn't want "some stupid redneck bumpkin" working on their cable services.

I have some experience with bigotry being shown to me because of my dialect.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I have a "side" im on here...but to play devils advocate....


....should the goal to be to teach students the most knowledge? Or to make them conform to societal norms?

Knowledge is useful. Norms change with every stiff breeze. You would end up getting seasick trying to follow the ever-changing expectations.

Also, what is "normal" is whatever I decide to do. Anybody doing anything different is doing it wrong, I just don't care enough to correct them

What you should be teaching students is this (to paraphrase the pep talk that I give to my daughters at the appropriate times):

"You will be told, many times in your life, that we all stand on the shoulders of giants. To hell with that. Go out and BE the giants. Be more than the sum of all the knowledge we can give you. See more than we have ever seen, find the words we could never imagine finding. Let others walk the trails that you have blazed. Let them build their frail houses upon the foundations you have hewn from the mountainous roots of the World itself. Be giants. To be anything less is to be second place, and second place is just a nonsense term for 'loser'. Don't be losers. Be giants."