Misquoting Jesus in the Bible

a reply to: ChesterJohn

We live in an age when all of the known manuscripts and fragments are literally at our fingertips. I don't think its wise to limit our scope of perception to one single translation that was put together in an archaic dialect of English over 406 years ago.

Here is why I call these issues into question.

Compare two different translations of Rev 22:19.

AV
19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

NASB
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Which is correct? Is it the Book of Life (implying a loss of salvation per Rev 17:8 & Rev 19:20), or is it the Tree of Life (implying the loss of eternal reward, but not salvation).

I say Tree of Life is accurate, simply because I don't believe salvation is ours to lose (it is God's work, not ours), and Rev 2:7 already locates the Tree of Life in the paradise of God...which is associated with eternal reward, as is the New Jerusalem.

Two different words, two different meanings, two different translations.

That is just one example.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Manuscripts that are not verified to be originals or that they are correct copies because we have no originals to compare them too.

You exercise faith in man while I exercise faith in God when it comes to God preserving his words

The AV is correct for God inspired them to translate it in the way he wanted us to have it as a way to preserve it to our generation.

It is an act of faith to believe that God kept his words and preserved them to this generation.

You only lack faith in God.

Today's English is sloppy and has no real forms that inidicate an individual or a group, it uses words like you and yours which are both and leave it up to men to decide which it is. While the AV uses you, yours, thine, thy which in and of themselves indicate which is which. Learn the differences and you can understand the AV better. The Av uses terms like Believe, believes, believeth and believed and terms like faith which men confuse in their newer so called better translations. These versions have dropped words, verses and phrases because men decide what is correct with no guidance from God. The AV has all the verses questionable or not so we have a complete word of God.

I heard a man yesterday who had written a book about Jesus and he admitted he relied heavily upon the work of other men, and in another place spoke of using just scriptures (new version) so either he was lying or he is a hypocrite when it comes to God's word.

And this is true about anyone who says they do not understand the plain English of the AV they are either lying or a hypocrite.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

I am in no power and his preserved word in the AV serves only to help me know him and his will better. If I preach it is to help others to grow in their knowledge of Christ and his will for us in this life because of the security he gives us in the next.

That all sounds good but not sure what it has to do with anything I posted. And it always strikes me when people a sign gender to "GOD".

What is "AV"?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Check out the book I mentioned. It's def not anti-religion but opened my eyes. Actually added beauty to the things Christ said. Also makes his teachings take on new meaning.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I dont think its corrupt at all, just that it contains some simple errors

But it is corrupt...here's a definition of corrupt

wiki

(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations

If you had watched the video that Akragon provided on page 1 Dr. Ehrman said you have copies of copies of manuscripts written long after the death of Jesus written out by hand and therefore errors introduced.
I did not watch the whole video...better things to do with my time

a reply to: ChesterJohn

a lie is being taught that the fragments and manuscripts men have are the ORIGINALS. They are not they are copies only and are full of errors. But God's word, the Holy Bible says, he will keep them and preserve them to every generation. So there is One Bible Version

So there are no originals but only corrupted copies...and yet god preserves the words where...if not in the corrupted Bible?
You don't make sense

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The AV is translated from manuscripts too. And what about the time before the AV existed? Did God leave us without His Word? No. I believe He gives us His Word in forms that suite our interest and intellectual capacity. That has changed long ago (hence the newer translations based on newer manuscript discoveries), and is about to change again.

I don't have a problem with the AV, I simply do not limit myself to 1 single translation. God wants us to think. What good is faith if there is no thinking involved. That's gang mentality in it's most fundamental form.

a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

So your explanation is to go read a book

My question still stands.
Jesus took the power away from religios authority, I am at a loss to how you imagine that christianity gives power to authoritys

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Raggedyman

I dont think its corrupt at all, just that it contains some simple errors

But it is corrupt...here's a definition of corrupt

wiki

(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations

If you had watched the video that Akragon provided on page 1 Dr. Ehrman said you have copies of copies of manuscripts written long after the death of Jesus written out by hand and therefore errors introduced.
I did not watch the whole video...better things to do with my time

If you have decided that a few errors make it corrupt that's fine
I don't see the errors as making it corrupt, or unreliable, just a few simple errors

Now as for your definition
That's crap, just crap
Windows has errors, millions still use it daily
Though in reality, christians also rely on the Spirit to lead us as well.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Christianity along with other religions gives authority to priests or their brand of clergy. It also lays down laws and punishments. Can't get to heaven unless you repent! In the book I spoke about that you won't consider, an alternative Christ is presented where he presents a more gnostic view of spirituality based on the truth being within us.

Organized religion wants our money, regular visits and sacrifice. The Christ I choose to beleive in (if he even existed) would have told us to not look to leadership of the church but instead to look within ourselves. I could go on but not here to debate religion. I think that the translation issue is important. Back in my college days, we studied how small parts of the bible were changed to suit whoever was in charge. Things like reincarnation were removed because a king or high priest could not wield power if he was merely the reincarnation of some "lesser" being. People argue that "GOD" guided the translations but to me that's a cop out.

Personally I'm starting to consider that the soul, and what many call "GOD" is something that evolved. Most put God at the beginning of time. Others think "GOD" is something that continues to evolve, like the spirit, as we grow and evolve. Could it be that in reality "GOD" is within each of us and we are the creators that use thought and intention as our primary tools?

Qa reply to: Mike.Ockizard

But that's wrong mike
Christ took the authority away from Priests, He made us, the Christians priests.
There are no laws for christians outside of love God and love each other, no laws what so ever
Yes there is the need to accept Christ, or reject Him, again, free will choice. You decide if you want to escape justice or receive it

In the Old Testament God said He wanted love over sacrifice, Christ came to end the need to sacrifice.
Yes, technically we are to sacrifice to God, by loving Him and each other, that's all, that's hard enough

Your comprehension of christianity has been perverted because you have been spoon fed your beliefs and never searched out the truth

The bible teaches us to look within ourselves to be better people and have faith in God, because, and don't under rate this word, He loves us.
Your Gnosticism does not contain and can never contain love

a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

The Bible signs gender to God.

AV=Authorized Version

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

He preserved them in one English version only and he did not so much through manuscripts but through Holy men via inspiration and prayerful study, God will only do it in once in this generation and he did.

There is only one English Bible that has all the verses words, phrases and sections, all other English versions do not have everything in it.

My Point about originals still stands there are none. There are only copies and they are not verifiable because we have no originals to compare them too.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yes prayerful study and God's power to inspire them in the difficult areas resulted in a preserved Bible.

before there was an Inspired Old Latin, but it was not the Vulgate, the RC destroyed all copies that we know of. Before that there was Greek and it no longer exists, before that Hebrew which no longer exists. God inspired the first five books to Moses, Genesis Was all given to Moses via inspiration even though it was originally spoken to those in the History of Genesis, Adam, Noah, Seth, Melchizedek, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), and Joseph.

The only reason I use this one as it meets the test to be the preserved word of God in English to our generation, It has all the verses in it. It defines all the words in it via the context, no need for an outside source like a dictionary. It has a supernatural built in cross-reference of words, phrases and verses unlike the man made denominational or theological cross-references found in many bibles today.

I still have faith in God and his word. I read and study every day and that takes a lot of thinking. But God's word enlightens the simple, leads the humble and encourages the righteous in Christ.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The only reason I use this one as it meets the test to be the preserved word of God in English to our generation

And how exactly have you tested it? Cuz what you're saying doesn't sound objective at all.

The heptameter is a self auditing system, cross-referencing key words in Hebrew and Greek. It shows how the Word is an actual network of knowledge. It is Sepher Torah (count the Law) applied. Why hold on to second hand knowledge, when we have the resources and knowledge to vet the manuscripts to restore the original Word of God? Like separating wheat from tares.

In this age of information, it is only fitting that God show us how to refine the existing manuscripts, working out the impurities, to bring forth the original Word once again. The AV was for the generations that lacked knowledge, capacity for knowledge, and advanced technology. This generation is unlike any other since the flood, God has empowered us, and we have an opportunity like no other.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Word, The: Insight, Volume 2

The term “word” in the Scriptures most frequently translates the Hebrew and Greek words da·varʹ and loʹgos. These words in the majority of cases refer to an entire thought, saying, or statement rather than simply to an individual term or unit of speech. (In Greek a ‘single word’ is expressed by rheʹma [Mt 27:14], though it, too, can mean a saying or spoken matter.) Any message from the Creator, such as one uttered through a prophet, is “the word of God.” In a few places Loʹgos (meaning “Word”) is a title given to Jesus Christ.

The Word of God. “The word of Jehovah” is an expression that, with slight variations, occurs hundreds of times in the Scriptures. By “the word of Jehovah” the heavens were created. God said the word and it was accomplished. “God proceeded to say: ‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light.” (Ps 33:6; Ge 1:3) It should not be understood from this that Jehovah himself does no work. (Joh 5:17) But he does have myriads of angels that respond to his word and carry out his will.—Ps 103:20.

Creation, animate and inanimate, is subject to God’s word, and can be used by him to accomplish his purposes. (Ps 103:20; 148:8) His word is dependable; what God promises he also remembers to do. (De 9:5; Ps 105:42-45) As he himself has said, his word “will last to time indefinite”; it will never return without accomplishing its purpose.—Isa 40:8; 55:10, 11; 1Pe 1:25.

Jehovah is a communicative God, in that he reveals to his creatures in a variety of ways what his will and purposes are. God’s words were spoken, doubtless through an angel, to such men as Adam, Noah, and Abraham. (Ge 3:9-19; 6:13; 12:1) At times he used holy men like Moses and Aaron to make known his purposes. (Ex 5:1) “Every word” that Moses commanded Israel was in effect the word of God to them. (De 12:32) God also spoke through the mouth of prophets such as Elisha and Jeremiah, and prophetesses such as Deborah.—2Ki 7:1; Jer 2:1, 2; Jg 4:4-7.

Many of the divine commandments were committed to writing from the time of Moses forward. The Decalogue, commonly called the Ten Commandments and known in the Hebrew Scriptures as “the Ten Words,” was first delivered orally and later ‘written by the finger of God’ on stone tablets. (Ex 31:18; 34:28; De 4:13) These commandments were called the “Words” at Deuteronomy 5:22.—See TEN WORDS.

Joshua wrote additional “words in the book of God’s law” under divine inspiration, and this was true with other faithful Bible writers. (Jos 24:26; Jer 36:32) Eventually all such writings were collected together and made up what is called the Sacred Scriptures or Holy Bible. “All Scripture . . . inspired of God” would include, today, all the canonical Biblical books. (2Ti 3:16; 2Pe 1:20, 21) In the Christian Greek Scriptures, God’s inspired word is often spoken of as simply “the word.”—Jas 1:22; 1Pe 2:2.

There are many synonyms for God’s word. For example, in Psalm 119, where references to Jehovah’s “word(s)” occur more than 20 times, synonyms are found in poetic parallelisms—such terms as law, reminders, orders, regulations, commandments, judicial decisions, statutes, and sayings of Jehovah. This also shows that the expression “word” means a complete thought or message.

The word of God is also described in a number of other ways that give it breadth and meaning. It is “the ‘word’ [or “saying” (rheʹma)] of faith” (Ro 10:8, Int), “the word [or message (form of loʹgos)] of righteousness” (Heb 5:13), and “the word of the reconciliation” (2Co 5:19). God’s word or message is like “seed,” which, if planted in good soil, brings forth much fruitage (Lu 8:11-15); his sayings are also said to ‘run with speed.’—Ps 147:15.

Preachers and Teachers of the Word.
... (Mt 7:28, 29; Joh 7:46)...(Joh 14:24; 17:14; Lu 5:1)...Mt 15:6; Mr 7:13.

Matthew 15:6 (Jesus speaking)

6 he need not honor his father at all.’ So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition.

Mark 7:13 (Jesus speaking)

13 Thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this.”

James 1:22

22 However, become doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.

1 Peter 2:2

2 As newborn infants, form a longing for the unadulterated* milk of the word, so that by means of it you may grow to salvation, [*: Or “pure.”]

Please don't 'do Jesus' or 'form a longing for his milk'. That's not what it's talking about, only someone with a sick mind would want you to think that, like the writer(s) of South Park.

To recap where we are up to.

The video in the OP is accurate in that no original versions of the books of the bible survive to this day. The fragments and documents that we do have are different as translation and word errors crept in much like a Chinese whisper.

Some posters have replied without studying the video and that is typical ... each to their own.

But then along come the holy people who KNOW what God's thinking is and KNOW because of the Holy Ghost is within them and therefore they know God and their God is the right one and so whatever version of the Bible that they favor is of course the right one!

The entirety of the Bible was written by men and the errors we can detect were added to serve a purpose, a purpose designed by men.

The only faith exhibited in this discussion is the one that says

MY VERSION OF GOD AND THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY TRUE VERSION.

And that is the historical and modern problem with all forms of religion.

There is copious amounts of evidence in the OP but sadly, those who argue (to death it seems) strongly have not watched the video lest they be contaminated.

I want peace on earth and one of the two elements needed to get there is an end to this idea that my God is the only one that matters.

Finally, GOD told you all ... THERE IS BUT ONE GOD ... ME!

But you can't open your ears and your hearts and listen.

Your righteous indignation serves the dark one always. His work is to divide and conquer and you fall into his trap like bloody idiots.

There is only one God. Understand that!

P

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

And what exactly is that supposed to prove about the AV???

How about this one?

Proverbs 25:2

It is the glory of God to conceal the Word, but the glory of the king to search for the Word.

As kings and priests in Christ (Rev 1:6), it is our responsibility and glory to seek out the Word. We have the resources and manuscripts to do that, so again, why limit our focus to an archaic translation?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Theres a whole lot of difference in using windows to accomplish some tasks with errors and using the Bible that cannot even be considered anything other than a corrupt set of 2nd hand news