A Study In Welfare,Liberal Ideology, Racism & Diversity

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Krazysh0t

And how much time is enough time? These are 4th and 5th generation kids who are now as far from integration as they ever were.

Bull#. Prove it. There is no way that someone whose family has lived in a country for 5 generations still doesn't regret moving to that country and doesn't consider themselves a citizen of that country and part of its culture. Don't say things just because they sound good as support for your argument.

They don't want it and are not scared of saying so. Do such incidences not give rise to the theory that some migrants are not in fact migrants but colonists? The situation here is not specifically race but ideology and belief. Fifty years ago the Pakistani migrants that were here were the backbone of the textile industry. They worked long hours, suffered industrial deafness and other diseases, but they remained learned the language and to all intents and purposes integrated just like the Ukranians Poles and Latvians. They made no demands, for the most part they kept their culture to themselves as they did with their religion. However, once the numbers rose, they then felt compelled to integrate back into the Pakistani communities and subsequent generations especially the women, had little or no need to learn the language etc. The work ethic was diluted to almost zero and those that did work usually worked cash in hand (tax free) or for family, thereby giving back little or nothing to the country as a whole. As the number rose significantly higher, they discovered that liberalism was their friend and they became the special and the victims, and those that did manage to rise up and become achievers were ostracised and considered traitors.

What we are seeing are countries within countries which cannot possibly be called multiculturalism or diversity

No you aren't. These communities are still 100% subject to the laws of the governing country and instead function not much differently than Amish communities in the States.

Despite what the American posters too busy patting you on the back and not doing their historical due diligence are telling you, the US has analogs to just about any situation with immigrants you are experiencing in Europe within our history. We survived them all and became better as a country for it. You are just projecting your fears onto a group of people who has nothing to do with you. You and your country will be fine. Immigrants don't destabilize countries. They. NEVER. Have.

My apologies Burdman this reply was meant for Krazyshot.
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You used a fictional film to make a point in a reply to another poster. When I mentioned this you replied in a way that was a statement that you placed a question mark at the end of. I replied to by pointing out that I had made no such claim and your statement in the form of a question was therefore ridiculous.

Can you tell me which part of this you need me to elucidate on?

a reply to: ScepticScot

And there is nothing wrong at all with such identifiers but I'm sure on their passports it says American! lol
As stated in my post, it has been proven that we accept those which are closest to ourselves, those with the same beliefs religions politics etc this makes diversity easier, if it can even be called diversity which I think it can. But when those people are confronted with others far removed from the bubble if you like, that is when mistrust arises. This has always been true.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Shh, your making sense my man. Let them have their cake. We get the laugh and point fingers as they choke trying to eat it.

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I beg to differ. Here in the UK we are seeing an upsurge in the younger generation of Pakistanis NOT integrating not assimilating and certainly not adopting the culture of the UK. It is mainly the younger males that are calling for Sharia Law, not the older generations.

And I say give it time. They'll come around. Or their kids will at least.

Give it time? Nonsense.
It should be a prerequisite when someone immigrates into a country, that their ideals should closely align to where they are going. For example, not call for Sharia Law to be the law of the land in a country that is primarily Christian.

There is so much wrong with your bolded statement. You clearly don't understand how Sharia Law works. On top of that this country is secular, not Christian. You sound like you are in support of a Christian theocracy, which ironically, makes you EXACTLY the same as the Muslims you are scared of and currently strawmaning.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

My apologies Burdman this reply was meant for Krazyshot.

Thanks for clarifying.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I live here. I live where it is happening. I see it daily. The older generation Pakistanis are worried as they cannot control their youngsters. There is little or no respect anymore. Whereas the older generation had a work ethic, the younger generation the millennials and even prior, are happy to become dependant on social security benefits, something their parents and grandparents would never have done. I could produce numerous videos etc of such things but that isn't actually the gist of my post.

"Every time you point a finger three point back at you" as a former President once said.
a reply to: cenpuppie

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: RazorV66

That was me when I applied years ago

I was refused as the line of work I was in (law) was not needed in Canada as there were more than enough Canadians able to fill those jobs and without £500000 I would be a burden on the state.

Thank you, saved me the trouble of looking but I knew I saw your post.
And I apologize that I got it wrong...I said the job demand was not there, not that they already had enough people to fill those jobs.
Your experience is very telling and it should be an eye opener to these people that think we should just let anyone into the USA without knowing how to deal the sheer numbers of them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
You sound like you are in support of a Christian theocracy, which ironically, makes you EXACTLY the same as the Muslims you are scared of and currently strawmaning.

Except for all of the terrorism, stoning of rape victims, public execution of homosexuals, marriage of children, etc... Oh, wait, a Christian theocracy is absolutely NOTHING like a Sharia caliphate.

originally posted by: Black_Fox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: CulturalResilience

So you are saying that there was no anti-immigrant rhetoric at the turn of the century and that movie was a bunch of lies in that regard then?

Let me repeat again for those hard of understanding. I never claimed anti immigration rhetoric of any type did not exist.

Numerous studies have shown that when migrant number increase significantly, there is a tendency for migrants already in the host country, to reintegrate into the migrant society and not the other way around.

I can't believe that people have actually read the studies or links I provided which are not just click bait or msm propaganda grr!

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Krazysh0t


What we are seeing are countries within countries which cannot possibly be called multiculturalism or diversity

Correct! It is not about Anti immigration it's about not wanting other cultures coming in and once large enough trying to change the natives to their beliefs and doctrines completely and fully thereby overtaking an entire nation without ever having ever fired a single shot(so to speak). I personally have no problem with cultural diversity, however my wife isn't going to cover her head in public. she is an American.(no longer married by the way but you get my point I hope)

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
Numerous studies have shown that when migrant number increase significantly, there is a tendency for migrants already in the host country, to reintegrate into the migrant society and not the other way around.

I can't believe that people have actually read the studies or links I provided which are not just click bait or msm propaganda grr!

There's is I believe an old adage that has its roots in your home county. I believe it goes along the lines of 'There's none so blind as them that won't see'.

a reply to: brutus61

Which is why the studies prove that diversity is NOT Strength as we've been told to believe.

Has no-one ever wondered why, the migrants (not real refugees I might add) that choose to migrate to another country, for a better life, end up bringing with them the very ideologies and oppression that they were allegedly escaping from?

Has no-one ever considered why people from such fundamentally different cultures and beliefs choose Europe over any one of the 50 Islamic countries?

As a kid growing up in Canada we were taught that the fundamental difference between Canada and the US culturally was the "melting pot" vs the "salad bowl". Obviously we were the salid bowl of multi culti. I wasn't exactly for it growing up but Ive kind of changed my thinking along the way. Im as "old stock" as it gets with both my parents forefathers getting of the boat in the early 1800's.

One night stood out to me recently, I was at a house party in Toronto with my (much) younger sister. Out of about thirty people there we were the only "white" ones. Every other attendee was in their mid to late twenties, drinking beer just like I do, dressed the same as me, listening to the same music as me, with the same interests as me. I bet this was a mosaic of people who's parents/grandparents originated from all over the world. Obviously I didn't ask what ethnicities anyone was because it didn't matter. We were all doing the same #.

So every attendee there had "westernized" so to speak. I bet if you asked any of them what they considered themselves to be it would be Canadian. Im great with that.

I think if you leave people alone and let them immerse themselves in the local cultures, then the next generation wants to be a part of it, home lands be damned. I think its always been this way. I know even with my own European heritage each generation feels less and less interested at all in where we came from. It doesn't really matter.

Just a little ancedotal experience...

a reply to: CulturalResilience

Aye and another one "I see clearly said the blind man to his deaf & dumb daughter as he walked into a lampost" That's a very old one but same thing although of course not pc now

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I fail to understand how people can articulate the idea that multiculturalism is failing or can fail. The entire existence of the United States has been a 241 year long exercise in multiculturalism.

You are confusing to different models of a heterogeneous society. For most of Americas history we have been a “melting pot”; where in many different cultures have blended their cultures into a signal “American Culture”. Multiculturalism is a relatively new mode of heterogeneous society; different cultures mix, but remain distinct.

An easy example of this difference is the assimilation of the English language; past waves of immigrants (which included my family in the 60s) had no choice but to adopt the English language or they could not sustain themselves. Italian is still spoken in my family home and in my Italian community but every member also speaks English and does so when out in the grater world. This is not true for current waves of immigrants; there are whole sections of towns and cities where most of the population cannot speak English.

As the OP has pointed out; while this is certainly more tolerant toward the new immigrants it does lead to separations and disharmony to a greater extent than in the past. It may be a question of “you take the good with the bad”. Maybe tolerance is more important than unity; but you can’t deign the adverse effects.

a reply to: deuceawesome

That is the basis of my post and the studies quoted, we gravitate to those that resemble ourselves most. I have no problem with migration and immigration, IF those people migrating are willing to contribute, to integrate, to leave their religion at home and to adapt. But and this is where I get flamed, most don't due to being wrapped in a liberal blanket of preferential treatment.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I beg to differ. Here in the UK we are seeing an upsurge in the younger generation of Pakistanis NOT integrating not assimilating and certainly not adopting the culture of the UK. It is mainly the younger males that are calling for Sharia Law, not the older generations.

And I say give it time. They'll come around. Or their kids will at least.

Give it time? Nonsense.
It should be a prerequisite when someone immigrates into a country, that their ideals should closely align to where they are going. For example, not call for Sharia Law to be the law of the land in a country that is primarily Christian.

There is so much wrong with your bolded statement. You clearly don't understand how Sharia Law works. On top of that this country is secular, not Christian. You sound like you are in support of a Christian theocracy, which ironically, makes you EXACTLY the same as the Muslims you are scared of and currently strawmaning.

Not at all, I don't care what religion people practice and I don't care how Sharia Law works but it is my belief that immigrants should conform to the country that they immigrated to first and foremost. And not overburden it also.
That is the problem like we saw last night in Trump's speech, when he mentioned America first, the Democrats booed and hissed. They are perfectly willing to let the refugees come here without knowing what to do with all of them and figure out who is going to pay for them. I am sure some will be productive people but how much longer can we keep 40-50 million or more people on welfare and government handouts?