Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: pompel9
They are not playing, they are competing. Big difference.

All games are competitions.

a reply to: seasonal

in the '90s at least, they did not make a distinction.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

You seem hung up on the idea that somehow, if s/he is not allowed to wrestle, a grave injustice of the first order has been done. How do you feel about kids who are banned from wrestling because they don't keep their grades up? Are they somehow having a horrible injustice done to them?

Grade rules are used as motivation to make students study. Are you suggesting we need to motivate people to not seek out this type of treatment?

No. Grade rules are in place because, as someone else mentioned earlier, schools are for learning, not sports. If you do not maintain the standard of passing grades, then you do not participate in activities over and above your required coursework. The activities are called "extracurricular" for a reason. They are extras, not required.

If they wanted to make them a reward for actual studying, they's set the bar higher then a minimal passing grade. It would be As and Bs like it is to get a car insurance discount.

But my point is that to fail the grade standard is as much a conscious choice on the part of the student in most cases as it is a conscious choice to decide to transition. Note: I didn't say gender identity was a choice before you knee jerk. I said the choice to begin transition is.

If the transgender wants to continue competing at the competitive level, s/he needs to maintain the natural sex s/he was born with or decide to alter it through transition, but a consequence of the alteration is athletic ineligibility.

a reply to: ketsuko

Basic common sense, ketsuko! Basic common sense.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If the transgender wants to continue competing at the competitive level, s/he needs to maintain the natural sex s/he was born with or decide to alter it through transition, but a consequence of the alteration is athletic ineligibility.

First of all, love the compassion for another human being here ... "the transgender" ...

Second of all, says who? (Besides you, of course.)

Why should you get to dictate to transkids what sports they can participate in?

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: ketsuko

Basic common sense, ketsuko! Basic common sense.

To core authoritarians perhaps.

To most of us ... he's a boy. Let him wrestle the boys.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
If the transgender wants to continue competing at the competitive level, s/he needs to maintain the natural sex s/he was born with or decide to alter it through transition, but a consequence of the alteration is athletic ineligibility.

First of all, love the compassion for another human being here ... "the transgender" ...

Second of all, says who? (Besides you, of course.)

Why should you get to dictate to transkids what sports they can participate in?

Since I am speaking in the general sense here and not specifically to the case in question, what should I have said? We are talking about transgender people in general. So the transgender is entirely appropriate.

And I am not at all dictating what sports they can or can't play. I am dictating the conditions under which people compete. Title IX sets up provisions for women/girls and men/boys on a biological sex basis for a reason; the main one is that there are provable biological physical difference between the performance capacities of the male and female body. The rules are against drug use and performance enhancers for a reason because performance enhancers are designed to alter the natural physical capabilities of one's body (hint: it's why they are called performance enhancers).

We wouldn't allow a female athlete to take anabolic steroids and then compete. Why?

Anabolic steroids are synthetic variations of the male sex hormone testosterone. The proper term for these compounds is anabolic-androgenic steroids. "Anabolic" refers to muscle building, and "androgenic" refers to increased male sex characteristics.

So we'll kick any girl out who takes a fake version of testosterone, but you guys think it's A-OK to allow a girl whose own body has been giving her testosterone for years or one who is taking it because s/he wants to transition?

I'm sorry, but the truth is that for an athlete to transition, they have basically altered their natural body and there are issues with it. It isn't the natural, unaltered body they started with and there is no way to ensure they are competing on a level playing field with the other athletes.

They should decide which is more important to them: transitioning at that time or competition.

a reply to: ketsuko

You "shouldn't" have said anything other than what you said. You said what you said. And, I'm sorry, you were speaking specifically about the matter under discussion. I found your reference more than a bit dehumanizing, but that's my opinion and a minor point.

You're dictating to other people; that's the point. Title IX was under revision, at least in it's interpretation under the last administration to incorporate a greater cultural understanding of variant gender identities. Obviously, that's being reversed at the moment.

Regarding this matter, Mack is receiving treatment for something his body is lacking, a medically accepted treatment that attempts to bring his testosterone levels to a compatible level with other boys his age.

Arm chair experts here pretending to be endocrinologists. I say, with his physician's approval, let Mack, a boy, wrestle other boys.

A girl taking a fake version of testosterone is not a transboy receiving proper medical treatment. You're at the old false equivalency tactics again.

You have issues. Fine. That doesn't mean that society at large should have issues. To my mind, Mack is a boy. He wants to compete against other boys as long as he has his doctor's approval that he is fit, let him wrestle.

It's ludicrous (and indeed unfair) to make him wrestle girls because of his birth certificate.

Beginning, middle end of story, notably, in my opinion.

Derp.

Bet you all are glad I've stayed out of this until now?

I don't really have an opinion on this other than I think it's a great fark you to the laws in the state of Texas and that I agree trans athletics are problematic.

There's a great site full of state and local policy information on this subject? Here's a link to the page with K to 12 Policies

Other than that, please try to be understanding and compassionate. I'm out.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If the transgender wants to continue competing at the competitive level, s/he needs to maintain the natural sex s/he was born with or decide to alter it through transition, but a consequence of the alteration is athletic ineligibility.

It's an unreasonable expectation to expect gender reassignment surgery as a prerequisite to play sports. In most cases, you aren't even eligible for the surgery until you're an adult, and then there's typically years of counseling and medications that one has to complete first.

lol @ the attempted justifications of performance enhancing drugs.

Good laff.

Saturday, February 25, 2017

""Mack Beggs, a 17-year old transgender Euless Trinity wrestler making national headlines at the UIL State Wrestling Championships at the Berry Center this weekend, won the Class 6A girls' 110-pound state championship Saturday at the Berry Center.

Beggs went undefeated in the two-day tournament and beat Morton Ranch's Chelsea Sanchez in the final. Sanchez took home the silver medal."

Full Story: www.msn.com...

If MACK has the muscles and DNA of a BOY, he should NOT be wrestling girls. If MACK really is now 100% girl...strike that last opinion.

I reckon I could beat him in a fight.

It's a bit off in a few different ways. There's the strength thing, of course.

Then there's the kinda sleazy aspect of it, it's basically a dude getting super close to young chicks, matters not whether there are intended sexual perversions or undertones at play.

When a woman is arrested it's usually a female cop that will perform a full body search, before we know it we'll have male cops who think they're female cops doing cavity searches, etc.

It's all a bit sleazy, really.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

OMG.. I just read that MACK is taking Testosterone therapy. That's not fair to the female competitors!
www.mercurynews.com...

If any of other female wrestlers did that, they'd be ejected for "doping", or whatever its called.

Utterly ridiculous.

All the real girls in that state had their season compromised to cater to one kid who's confused.

Disgusting. Parents should be ashamed. School should reject the trophy. Kid should be expelled.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

It's all a bit sleazy, really.

Yet required by the law in Texas, and by anyone who claims that the "plumbing" is what makes the man (or woman.)

Mack is a boy and should be able to compete against other boys. That's the way these sports work.

In Texas, he cannot, because the law says that he must be treated as the sex on his birth certificate.

Most of you who now want Mack to be disqualified from wrestling girls (and I think Mack would be the first to agree with you) are the same ones that argue that one's "plumbing" is the only determinant.

That many are focusing on Mack's medical treatments is pure red herring. His treatments are necessary to his health.

You can't have it both ways, either he's a boy, as he believes he is and appears to be, and should be allowed to wrestle boys ... or she's a girl and there's no reason she shouldn't wrestle girls.

The only logical, reasonable and fair choice is obvious, and totally invalidates the "bathrooms are about plumbing" arguments.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: seasonal

Meh, there's plenty of women who could whup my butt. It isn't just about testosterone.

Knowing that it's going to be a controversial issue going in, I think one option is just to bow out and pursue other athletic interests.

Some things just aren't going to make perfect sense in the trans world no matter how many concessions are made.

Where is the honor in winning against someone weaker than you?

Where is the sportsmanship?

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ask the people who make discriminatory laws in Texas.