Upcoming 20th anniversary Phoenix Lights - I think Fife Symington lied about seeing craft.

In searching ATS I didn't find anything definitive about Fife Symington's alleged sighting and argument that he is lying.

I have always thought Symington was lying. His story didn't make sense. It seemed he was part making up for the alien costume prank that made fun of the citizens that came forward and reported but more a ploy to shade himself in a better light and play the "hero" of the Phoenix Lights" a decade after many investigations into that night and a sense that something did happen. Meaning it was safe for Old Fife to be associated with UFOs.

For those not familiar , In the James Fox documentary 'I Know What I Saw' Ex. Governor of Arizona Fife Symington ( in office at time of Phoenix Lights 3/13/97) reveals a decade after it happened that on that fateful night he actually saw the craft that many alleged to see fly over the Phoenix area at approximately 8:00pm to 8:30pm ( not the 10:00pm flares).

Symington states: (paraphrase) " I was sitting down to dinner with My family. The T.V was on so I was well aware of the UFO sightings that were being reported. I just had to see it so I hopped into my car and drove down the block Past Squaw Peak to a park. There were people milling about , enjoying the park. Then someone said " hay , look at that!" And I looked up and there was the craft".

That quote was not exact transcript but you get the picture.

So what's wrong with his story?

1) Fife insinuates that a TV news report tells him about the sightings and this motivates him to "hop in his car " and see the craft. The initial sighting was 8:00pm to 8:30pm. How did the news report the story on TV while it was still passing through Phoenix. Then give Old Fife enough time to "hop in my car" and drive to a park. Reports from locals say the 1st TV reports were not until 9:30pm and that the TV ads were only teasing a " UFO reported in the area, tune in at 10:00pm for the whole story". No specifics of where it was sighted or when.


2) raise your hand if you sit down with your family between 8-8:30pm on a Thursday night to eat dinner together. Me neither.

3) can a US in-office governor just hop in a car and drive around town on his own whim? Doesn't he have a security detail and a state police driver?

4)What do you tell your wife/kids your are allegedly eating a strange late dinner with?

5) why did he pick that park out of the entire greater Phoenix area. What kind of odds are it that he would see something?

6) he stated " when I got to the park there were people milling about, enjoying the park. Then someone said, hay look at that. I looked up and there was the craft". Really! Come on. Really Old Fife dog! So you show up at the park . Did you park the car and walk through the park? Did you stay in your car and just some random person said out loud "hay look at that". Just ridiculous!

I bring this up for a few reasons. As of late I have seen, heard of many conferences and pod casts speaking of the 20th anniversary of the Phoenix Lights. Let's not forget that this guy Fife Symington made fun of those who were brave enough to come forward . People like Frances Barwood, city councilwoman of Phoenix that was the solitary voice of those that came forward were ridiculed and laughed at.

It seems after the dust settled Fife Symington is in some people's eye the hero of this story. He's on documentaries, Local and national news interviews, Larry King! I think he is a fake and like the sleazy politician that he is ( check out this background check of his under handed dealings: www.abovetopsecret.com...

A good pod cast summary is here , start at 10:00 minute mark: m.youtube.com...

Dude was a weasel. I don't care whether he lied or not. He was out of his lane and acting the fool.

I'm glad his antics sunk his political career. That'll teach the whole lot of 'em.

Actually the only thing I do find plausible in his story is having the late dinner. My family ate dinner around 8 or so every night too when I was growing up. That was the norm in my neighborhood. I never understood why some of my other friends from school that lived in different neighborhoods ate so early.
Not trying to take away from your argument at all, just pointing out that some circles do eat late like that. I do think the rest of your points are valid as far as his lying though.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

I do remember that event, to me it was like "Roswell" there is no way you can say it was hoaxed or manmade and it flew from North of Phoenix down to the border with Mexico, 100s of witnesses...

That guy sux but I also would have a sit down dinner at around 8 as a kid.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Nice work.

I must add however, some people seemed to think it was one solid object, others saw a formation of objects. Still others claimed to see objects that weren't so big they, 'covered the sky from horizon to horizon'. So the reports taken as a whole leave much room for leeway as to when who saw what. Accodrdngto the film the incident lasted "forty minutes".

Do we consider only the most reported sighting as the only true one, throwing out all the others that don't match up?

If, and I mean if there were multiple objects then its possible they were seen by some in different places under differing circumstances.

The one image I saw attached to this sighting, the one and only one I saw was from the film, I Know What I saw. Its an image of several white objects in formation at high altitude against a blue sky...

The film didn't even address the image making it even more obscure, who took it, when, if it was an image and not file footage, etc.

The only thing we keep seeing associated with the Phoenix lights is the later flare footage , and I know thats the psyop to associate the flares with the Phoenix lights, not the earlier eyewitnessed events. And that gives me pause to consider there was something people saw earlier they (officialdom) is trying to cover up.

I believe that more than anything else. I know I seen a thingy once, I know they are real. If the good governor first came out with the 'staged' cover up press conference and later recanted, claiming he saw something too, then its probably because he was told to "stage" the press conference, much like Roswell base commander who had to recant his first press release and cover it up with the later dog and pony show with foil and sticks from a "balloon".

Only in the case of Phoenix lights the recant was from official position to saving face with his constituents by admitting he saw something too.

One has to consider all the eyewitness reports and see their testimony directly to begin to get a full picture of what they say they saw...

a reply to: onehuman

Ya, not really a strong point on my part. But did think it fabricated to fit his story. No offense to those who break bread later in the evening.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Nice work.

I must add however, some people seemed to think it was one solid object, others saw a formation of objects. Still others claimed to see objects that weren't so big they, 'covered the sky from horizon to horizon'. So the reports taken as a whole leave much room for leeway as to when who saw what. Accodrdngto the film the incident lasted "forty minutes".

Do we consider only the most reported sighting as the only true one, throwing out all the others that don't match up?

If, and I mean if there were multiple objects then its possible they were seen by some in different places under differing circumstances.

The one image I saw attached to this sighting, the one and only one I saw was from the film, I Know What I saw. Its an image of several white objects in formation at high altitude against a blue sky...

The film didn't even address the image making it even more obscure, who took it, when, if it was an image and not file footage, etc.

The only thing we keep seeing associated with the Phoenix lights is the later flare footage , and I know thats the psyop to associate the flares with the Phoenix lights, not the earlier eyewitnessed events. And that gives me pause to consider there was something people saw earlier they (officialdom) is trying to cover up.

I believe that more than anything else. I know I seen a thingy once, I know they are real. If the good governor first came out with the 'staged' cover up press conference and later recanted, claiming he saw something too, then its probably because he was told to "stage" the press conference, much like Roswell base commander who had to recant his first press release and cover it up with the later dog and pony show with foil and sticks from a "balloon".

Only in the case of Phoenix lights the recant was from official position to saving face with his constituents by admitting he saw something too.

One has to consider all the eyewitness reports and see their testimony directly to begin to get a full picture of what they say they saw...

I understand the sightings themselves are complicated and I won't begin to say if they were ET, Govt, hoax. I have no idea.

My problem is that Old Fife ridiculed Barwood, and those brave enough to come forward and say They saw something. Barwood had no interest in UFOs , only her constituents,who wanted a respectful response. They got alaughter, smirks, and a guy in costume.

Then two people that I do have a certain respect for in James Fox and Leslie Keane track down Old Fife 10 years later and he spins them this tale of his late night trip to the park . I would hope Keane and Fox wouldn't collude with Old Fife but that would mean he had the story saved up and ready if anyone asked.

I guess that is another rabbit hole to go down. Fox and Keane relationship with Old Fife and how his story was obtained

That guy is the typical politician, snakey!

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

My problem is that Old Fife ridiculed Barwood, and those brave enough to come forward and say They saw something. Barwood had no interest in UFOs , only her constituents,who wanted a respectful response. They got slaughter, smirks, and a guy in costume.

He does apologize for that and explain his position later, on stage, in the film I Know What I Saw.

He says, "I didn't mean to ridicule anyone" and, he was so inundated with requests and what amounted to a building hysteria at the time, that he felt the need to say something officially to "lighten the mood" surrounding this event preparing this dumb press conference with a smiling alien. That part of the film is here, at 13:08 into here...

Then two people that I do have a certain respect for in James Fox and Leslie Keane track down Old Fife 10 years later and he spins them this tale of his late night trip to the park . I would hope Keane and Fox wouldn't collude with Old Fife but that would mean he had the story saved up and ready if anyone asked.

I guess that is another rabbit hole to go down. Fox and Keane relationship with Old Fife and how his story was obtained

Agreed, I hadn't heard that part before.

a reply to: onehuman

I agree about eating late but for a different reason. Arizona is hot, lots of people in hot climes eat later after it begins to cool down.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

My problem is that Old Fife ridiculed Barwood, and those brave enough to come forward and say They saw something. Barwood had no interest in UFOs , only her constituents,who wanted a respectful response. They got slaughter, smirks, and a guy in costume.

He does apologize for that and explain his position later, on stage, in the film I Know What I Saw.

He says, "I didn't mean to ridicule anyone" and, he was so inundated with requests and what amounted to a building hysteria at the time, that he felt the need to say something officially to "lighten the mood" surrounding this event preparing this dumb press conference with a smiling alien. That part of the film is here, at 13:08 into here...

Then two people that I do have a certain respect for in James Fox and Leslie Keane track down Old Fife 10 years later and he spins them this tale of his late night trip to the park . I would hope Keane and Fox wouldn't collude with Old Fife but that would mean he had the story saved up and ready if anyone asked.

I guess that is another rabbit hole to go down. Fox and Keane relationship with Old Fife and how his story was obtained

Agreed, I hadn't heard that part before.

The problem I have with his "apology" is that it came 10 years later after much investigation, and popular public opinion that it was alright to believe something like this.

We have to remember when this happened in 1997 the internet was not what is is now. UFOLogy was for tinfoil hat wearing nuts. The story was buried until USA Today ran it nationally months later and that is when Old Fife did the ET costume ploy.

Councilwoman Francis Barwood stated her office personally took 700 reports from her constituents about sightings that night. No State or Federal entity responded or even acknowledged those reports.

Then there is this press release quote for James Fox "I know what I saw"

"This is the most compelling documentary I have ever seen on the subject of UFOs. It has a laser beam focus and presents an undeniable body of evidence which will turn the biggest skeptics into believers. James Fox has provided us with a unique public service by busting through the veils of secrecy and giving us the startling facts!”
— FIFE SYMINGTON, FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR

Think Old Fife did all that promotion for free?

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

The problem I have with his "apology" is that it came 10 years later after much investigation, and popular public opinion that it was alright to believe something like this.

We have to remember when this happened in 1997 the internet was not what is is now. UFOLogy was for tinfoil hat wearing nuts. The story was buried until USA Today ran it nationally months later and that is when Old Fife did the ET costume ploy.

Oh thanks, I didn't know he waited ten years to apologize. As far as the past and ridicule about seeing things, I get that. I saw something n the late 70 to early 80s with friends and you just didn't talk about it much.

Maybe thats why he waited. Maybe thats why he tried to diffuse the situation in Phoenix back when, too. Making light of it, make it into a joke.

I dunno about promoting the film, some of the testimony in that documentary about as yet unexplained incidents is very compelling. I enjoyed it very much, use certain aspects of it in argument here. The iranian pilot and the Belgium wave for instance. Others have since been debunked, imo.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

The Phoenix Lights were a combination of 2 separate events, the craft sighting, and the flares later on. If I remember right, the craft sighting originated in Northern AZ in the late afternoon/early evening. The event with the flares happened several hours later.

I lived in Phoenix at the time, but didn't see either event. I was only 16 and probably out skating somewhere.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

The Phoenix Lights were a combination of 2 separate events, the craft sighting, and the flares later on. If I remember right, the craft sighting originated in Northern AZ in the late afternoon/early evening. The event with the flares happened several hours later.

I lived in Phoenix at the time, but didn't see either event. I was only 16 and probably out skating somewhere.

Yes,

It started in Nevada with sightings reported as early as 6:30pm. Proceeded South through Arizona with the alleged unexplained sightings happening between 7:30 through 9:00pm and then the flares which were publicized so much happening around 10:00pm.

But my OP really focuses on Fife Symington and how he initially mocked the people of Arizona who reported what they saw and then years later is in some people's eyes seen as the "hero" and definitive voice of the Phoenix Lights because of a in my opinion lie he stated about seeing the craft himself.

Reply to Vector99

I dunno about promoting the film, some of the testimony in that documentary about as yet unexplained incidents is very compelling. I enjoyed it very much, use certain aspects of it in argument here. The iranian pilot and the Belgium wave for instance. Others have since been debunked, imo.

I agree , as I said before, about James Fox and his documentaries. They are good and Enjoy them. And I own and have read a few times Leslie Keane's book. Her discription of UFO incident JAL flight 1628 is in my opinion the definitive example of almost undisputable UFO existence ( what ever "they" are).

I am going to explore the relationship between Fife and James and Leslie. Apparently Fife first stated his story in 2007 to an Arizona newspaper then connected with James and Leslie after which makes me feel better about James and Leslie believing Fife but what true due diligence did they do. His story has holes and unfortunately I think James and Leslie just ran with it because if I remember correctly when " I Know What I Saw" came out it teased the fact it had new information on the Phoenix Lights and I think it was Fife's story.

I'll check that out too.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

I agree , as I said before, about James Fox and his documentaries. They are good and Enjoy them. And I own and have read a few times Leslie Keane's book. Her description of UFO incident JAL flight 1628 is in my opinion the definitive example of almost indisputable UFO existence ( what ever "they" are).

I left out JAL and Rendleshemm they are also good.

Especially JAL, "intermittent return in trail, I say again in trail".

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Symington, as governor would have jumped to the phone and called some goverment agency/official for how to react. He was probably told, "That ain't no nuthin'', governor, go back to sleep, we'll have people on the scene to help with your news conference. And they did, even with an alien suit.

He got suckered and later realized it. So he builds a story to save his ass in that regard. Typical politician. The event happened people.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Symington, as governor would have jumped to the phone and called some goverment agency/official for how to react. He was probably told, "That ain't no nuthin'', governor, go back to sleep, we'll have people on the scene to help with your news conference. And they did, even with an alien suit.

He got suckered and later realized it. So he builds a story to save his ass in that regard. Typical politician. The event happened people.

I believe the people saw what they saw. A single Phoenix district had over 700 official inquiry reports by Phoenix residents alone.

It is sad that the guy that didn't reply to one of those reports then mocked them on local TV with an ET costume then years later is trotted out as the representative of the Phoenix Lights and applauded.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Nice work.

I must add however, some people seemed to think it was one solid object, others saw a formation of objects. Still others claimed to see objects that weren't so big they, 'covered the sky from horizon to horizon'. So the reports taken as a whole leave much room for leeway as to when who saw what.

There is nothing mysterious' about human perceptual processes that react to sudden unusual visual stimuli by pulling up past experiences and filling in the gaps -- it's a survival-positive trait that allows crucial fast-reaction in events of lethal hazard or food opportunities, over a million generations of our ancestors. The reality of this trait is persuasively demonstrated in opportunistic double-blind experiments when known stimuli [for example, a swarm of fireballs resulting from a satellite reentry] will result in similar interpretations [a large structured object with lights mounted on it] in startled witnesses across the world, over the decades, with all ranges of cultures and professions and ages. See www.jamesoberg.com...

These documented cases make it much less 'impossible' that SOME observers in Phoenix would experience the identical misinterpretation.