Judge stops transgender female from seeing her children who live in an Ultra-Orthodox Community

The needs/stability/mental health of the kids should outweigh those of either parent.

If the kids have been raised Orthodox and the parent's lifestyle conflicts - that is the parent's choice/prerogative and should not be inflicted on the kids. However, if the kid's *want* to see their estranged parent, they should be allowed, with clear parameters.

I hope these kids have a strong, court-appointed advocate.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
The needs/stability/mental health of the kids should outweigh those of either parent.

If the kids have been raised Orthodox and the parent's lifestyle conflicts - that is the parent's choice/prerogative and should not be inflicted on the kids. However, if the kid's *want* to see their estranged parent, they should be allowed, with clear parameters.

I hope these kids have a strong, court-appointed advocate.

well said.
sometimes parents put their own sometimes selfish wants ahead of their childrens welfare.

plus, hard to comment from the outside, nobody REALLY knows what happens in anyone elses house, yknow

I can not speak to the mental state of the transgendered person because I have never meet them. I will never say that a persons life choice alone determines weather or not they are sane. I believe religious people are insane but I'm not going to treat them that why until I get to know them on a personal bases and find out for sure. Some people think I'm insane because I wish to live without electricity in the middle of a forest. But from reading this it does seem like the mother is more worried about how her community will view her and less concerned with the love these children have for their biological father. The only thing that should matter here is weather or not the children want to be around him. A lot of you want to say that being around transgendered person could negatively effect the child, but what about the effect it has on those children to be told they can not see their father anymore. Something like this was done to me when I was young. My mother remarried and my stepfather refused to allow me to see my father. This has had a negative impact on my mental health all my life. My father died before I ever got to know him as a person.

a reply to: Morrad

Here is some food for thought.

My mother used to be a carer for vulnerable people, had to go into there homes and make sure they were ok, feed them, clean them and the like.

Most of the clientele were OAP or suffered from mental health issues but an alarming amount of said clientele were junkies with children.

She used to go into some of these homes and find people lying around with needles still protruding from there arms while there infant children were left to there own devices to crawl around on dirty floors or lay in manky cots untended and in there own feces. Obviously she had to report these incidents but nothing is done, or very very little.

So to the point of my post, how come our beloved government authorities will bend over backward to accommodate junkies to be allowed to remain with there kids but this poor transsexual person is somehow deemed a threat and/or not allowed to see his kids?

Couple of things spring to mind regarding the case, she has ether had a right crap an incompetent solicitor representing her case or the judge responsible is a bigot!

This verdict will probobly and hopefully be overturned in any appeals procedure associated with such.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Morrad

Here is some food for thought.

My mother used to be a career for vulnerable people, had to go into there homes and make sure they were ok, feed them, clean them and the like.

Most of the clientele were OAP or suffered from mental health issues but an alarming amount of said clientele were junkies with children.

She used to go into some of these homes and find people lying around with needles still protruding from there arms while there infant children were left to there own devices to crawl around on dirty floors or lay in manky cots untended and in there own feces. Obviously she had to report these incidents but nothing is done, or very very little.

So to the point of my post, how come our beloved government authorities will bend over backward to accommodate junkies to be allowed to remain with there kids but this poor transsexual person is somehow deemed a threat and/or not allowed to see his kids?

Because human beings fear most what they don't understand. We understand addiction and so we can empathize with the addict. Transgenderism is something most people don't understand yet , not even a little. I know I don't. As long as we judge people on an individual bases after having gotten to know them than we will be alright. Sadly doing that is not the norm.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Could not agree more!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
But from reading this it does seem like the mother is more worried about how her community will view her and less concerned with the love these children have for their biological father.

The children along with the mother have to live in that community ALL

of the time, so to be shunned by that community means they will have

no social support whatsoever? much like outcasts? and children can be

very cruel!!

The only thing that should matter here is weather or not the children want to be around him.

They will want to be around HIM - but he is no longer the HIM the DADDY

that they recognise.

[I have known of a similar situation and have seen at first hand, what it can do]

A lot of you want to say that being around transgendered person could negatively effect the child, but what about the effect it has on those children to be told they can not see their father anymore.

A lot of you are speaking from an adult point of view. Children

haven't had the luxury of that experience.

"The children along with the mother have to live in that community ALL

of the time, so to be shunned by that community means they will have

no social support whatsoever? much like outcasts? and children can be

very cruel!! "

We do not know what the people of that community will do, we only know what the mother fears will happen. There may in fact be open minded people of that community that will not shun her.


"They will want to be around HIM - but he is no longer the HIM the DADDY

that they recognise.

[I have known of a similar situation and have seen at first hand, what it can do]"



That other situation is different than this one. For all you know the children will love their father no mater how he looks or dresses. Most kids will love and recognize their father even if he wears a wig, makeup , and a dress.





Are you saying it's ok to deny children the love from a parent if it interferes with social standing?

a reply to: scraedtosleep

That post above is a reply to eletheia. But I don't know how to add separate quotes.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

We do not know what the people of that community will do, we only know what the mother fears will happen. There may in fact be open minded people of that community that will not shun her.

Well around twenty years ago in one supposedly 'open' community that I know

of the children concerned were gossiped about, shunned, laughed at resulting

in 'selective mutism', lengthy psychiatric treatment, and other disorders.

This gossip I discovered through friends had traveled three hundred miles away.

That other situation is different than this one..

????? What other situation

For all you know the children will love their father no mater how he looks or dresses. Most kids will love and recognize their father even if he wears a wig, makeup , and a dress.

Do you have children? Do you teach children?

Are you saying it's ok to deny children the love from a parent if it interferes with social standing?

If it were to interfere with their development .....

However as I have already said in a post, Did this adult MALE consider when

he had five children that he had a responsibility toward those five children,

and his wants should have been put on the back burner till he had fullfilled

his parental obligations to them.

As a parent many sacrifices have to be made, mostly willingly, but HIS needs

apparently trump those of a woman and five children who S/HE chose

to have ......selfish

a reply to: Morrad

She needs to take it to the Supreme Court. No one should not be allowed to see their children based on not fitting in with religion.

Hopefully the children will not be as narrow-minded as their mother and community. Keeping them from their parent will only hurt the children in the long-run.

originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: kosmicjack
The needs/stability/mental health of the kids should outweigh those of either parent.

If the kids have been raised Orthodox and the parent's lifestyle conflicts - that is the parent's choice/prerogative and should not be inflicted on the kids. However, if the kid's *want* to see their estranged parent, they should be allowed, with clear parameters.

I hope these kids have a strong, court-appointed advocate.

well said.
sometimes parents put their own sometimes selfish wants ahead of their childrens welfare.

plus, hard to comment from the outside, nobody REALLY knows what happens in anyone elses house, yknow

It is not selfish if you identify with the other gender. I would rather my father be a happy woman than a miserable man.

I am still perplexed.
If there is nothing Psychologically wrong With them Why do they need To be diagnosed by a psychiatric Healthcare professional?

a reply to: dashen

When the issue of transgenderism arises, there tends to be a lot of impromptu psychologists who like to speak up and dole out mental illness as a cause.

a reply to: veracity

I think there are many reasons why certain males wants to transition.
for some it is a coping mechanism.
but I am not saying pretending really hard is a mental illness.
my question is why do you need a psychologist to diagnose you if you're ok?

a reply to: dashen

Well, some people may think they are ok, but really arent, for example...the current president of the United States.
Another example may be a child being molested but doesnt realize the seriousness of it.

However, transgenderism is not a mental disorder, just bc people do not know much of it, does not mean it is a disorder that needs "fixing".

originally posted by: dashen
I am still perplexed.
If there is nothing Psychologically wrong With them Why do they need To be diagnosed by a psychiatric Healthcare professional?

To make sure there isn't something going on other than gender dysphoria.

Gender dysphoria can also cause issues like anxiety and depression, which is something a mental healthcare professional can help with.

Gender dysphoria is not exactly a fun thing to go through, so it's important to have that psychological support as you work through it.

So let me get this straight.
a guy walks into his doctor's office and says he has gender dysphoria which is totally normal in mammals apparently
and the doctor says "righto, I've got just the thing!
Well lob off your jimjam!"
Am i missing something?