Universal Basic Income

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The thing about the India trials were that the money given was pretty low, not enough to live off. I think for now thats the way forwards. Just enough money to suppliment your income but not enough to be fully comfortable with. If its positive then it can be slowly increased. The Swiss proposal of more than 2500 USD was crazy.

originally posted by: Miccey

That DEMANDS that you have a job/work that you actually
WANTS to do...

Not necessarily ...... In a post further up I said how much I hated house work

but in having to do it (I can't afford a cleaner) and doing it well I got a degree

of satisfaction from it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Your version of what is 'earned' and what has 'value' is not universal.

A drug dealer could be said to have earned his money and his product could be said to have value in the eyes of many though many others would disagree.

a reply to: eletheia

OhWoW....
You cant think further than that...

Were i come from we go 9 years in school (the 1st time)
During that time we need to figure out what we wanna do for the REST of our lives...
Thats from the age of 7 to 16.....
THEN when we are 16 we "THINK" we know, if we are lucky....Then we have like 3-4 years more
of "education"... That MIGHT get us in a position to get a job...
By that time we have found new friends, made new connections and maybe even
a new purpose... By that time for a great many, its too late.... No take backs...
We are stuck in a situation that we "thought" would be ok or fun...But isnt...

Now tell me, WHO benefits the MOST in a system like this....

originally posted by: Miccey
OhWoW....
You cant think further than that...

I don't have to ..... been there done that have the T shirt!!

Were i come from we go 9 years in school (the 1st time)
During that time we need to figure out what we wanna do for the REST of our lives...
Thats from the age of 7 to 16.....

From the age of 5 years to 11 years I was at boarding school from mid March

to mid December.

From 12 years to 17 I went to commercial school.

THEN when we are 16 we "THINK" we know, if we are lucky....Then we have like 3-4 years more
of "education"... That MIGHT get us in a position to get a job...

I worked in many various positions to make a living not always what I

wanted but always progressing.

By that time we have found new friends, made new connections and maybe even
a new purpose... By that time for a great many, its too late.... No take backs...
We are stuck in a situation that we "thought" would be ok or fun...But isnt...
Now tell me, WHO benefits the MOST in a system like this....

Well that's life isn't it? what you make of it or don't make of it is down to you.

Ramblings....

You didnt answer the final question...
Me me me me, your like the seaguls...
MINE...And no, i guess you dont...
or cant...

And the three keywords....

Jealousy, greed and power...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Well written comment - enjoyed your post.

originally posted by: Miccey
a reply to: eletheia

OhWoW....
You cant think further than that...

Were i come from we go 9 years in school (the 1st time)
During that time we need to figure out what we wanna do for the REST of our lives...
Thats from the age of 7 to 16.....
THEN when we are 16 we "THINK" we know, if we are lucky....Then we have like 3-4 years more
of "education"... That MIGHT get us in a position to get a job...
By that time we have found new friends, made new connections and maybe even
a new purpose... By that time for a great many, its too late.... No take backs...
We are stuck in a situation that we "thought" would be ok or fun...But isnt...

Now tell me, WHO benefits the MOST in a system like this....

It's different in the US. Here we have 12 compulsory levels of education starting around the age of 6. There's two levels prior to that which are quite popular (pre-k and kindergarten) that many attend. After your 12 years (18 at this point), you go to college for what is hopefully 4 years. In most cases it ends up being 6.

The "what do you want to be" question starts getting asked around grades 9 and 10 but it doesn't have much impact. It might ultimately steer a child into an AP class or two, and save them a college class but more typically someone will get to college, switch degrees a year or two in, sometimes switch again, and then finally settle on a degree that they hate by the time they graduate.

In the US you get a lot of take backs.

a reply to: Aazadan

And when your all done, been at your lovely
new employment.. Someone comes along
with a whole new concept and you start
thinking..And then you see that what you
have been learning and that the education
you have spent 18years to get...Is not
what you wanted...

Edit: Would you say that your education described
is "POSSIBLE" for ALL... Not available but POSSIBLE..

originally posted by: lordcomac
It is welfare.

How many times do we have to cover basic monetary function?
If you raise the income of everyone by $x a month, within a year the basic cost of living for everyone will go up by $x a month.

"Universal" income is just another way to spike up minimum wage, which gives anyone making more than minimum wage an effective pay cut- so employers get to make more money.

Does.
Not.
Work.

Ofcourse a UBI would imply also that employers would have to settle for a maximum income. There's absolutely NO argument that can account for ANYONE having more or earning more than anyone else.

The best idea would really be a monetary free, resource based society on a planetary scale. Let computers make the logical decisions based on the current status of the world. Automate as much as possible. Focus on innovation and creative thinking...for the sake of ALL people on Earth, and not because you expect a reward down the line.

I'm pretty sure that baseline income would be more than anyone would need to live a decent life.

Biggest threat: greedy idiots who think they can't live without 2-3 cars or a house by the seaside with way more space than he or she needs.

I really wish a lot more people would take The Venus Project seriously.

a reply to: flice

Well, thats what we have to day....
Jealousy, Greed and Power...

a reply to: Miccey

Then go learn something new. Nothing is stopping you from doing so. I have to learn new technologies all the time. The stuff I do now didn't even exist when I first started college.

a reply to: Aazadan

Oh please lemme...
Ill let you know my bank account so you can
depo the cash straight away.....

You see, ive spent all my money on the FRIST one....
Need some more for a second education...

EDIT: forgot about time, you need to give me
some more of that too...


I wanna be an astronaut....
Travel to distant world and
discover new and exiting things....

originally posted by: Miccey
Oh please lemme...
Ill let you know my bank account so you can
depo the cash straight away.....

You see, ive spent all my money on the FRIST one....
Need some more for a second education...

EDIT: forgot about time, you need to give me
some more of that too...


I wanna be an astronaut....
Travel to distant world and
discover new and exiting things....

Nothing is stopping you from any of that if you're willing to work hard enough. Take online classes, they're quite inexpensive. Spend a couple hours a night on it, find the time by taking it out of other activities.

The absolute worst case scenario is that you take out personal loans for college, for a program that you detest but is very lucrative. Then you work that job for a few years to pay off the loans and get a cushion, then you fund the field you do want to go into.

As a whole I'm pretty sympathetic to time/money arguments for life, but at the same time formal education is VERY accessible in the US right now. If you make it a priority it can be done. That's coming from someone who spends 14 hours/day, every day (nearly 100 hours/week) in school or doing homework and has done so for the last 10 years.

I didnt do all the currency conversions, but 500 bucks a month is pretty piddly.
And as far as India, what is that. $5 a month?

Also, eventually, any of those amount will be worthless and will have to go up. Who pays for all this?

Mako surgical robots and stealth MRI systems are already such an indispensable value-add to surgeons that it isn't cost effective in terms of real dollars or recovery time to operate without them.

White collar jobs as insurance adjusters are being phased out in Japan, in favor of software automation.

In less than half the time it took the world to go from America Online to Mass Effect Andromeda, non-strong AI will surpass the cognitive capacity and throughput of a typical human brain.

Very few "jobs" will survive the process intact. There is a trillion dollars worth of investment to back up my assertions. Get ready to accept a whole new way of looking at "work," or get left behind.