Universal Basic Income

a reply to: asen_y2k
I'm afraid with this unsurmontable deficit that we may end up defaulting,I'm thinking this was all planned,then the big corporations,abscond everyones retirement and savings,and have a universal income,hate to think about it,but that is certainly a road we are headed on,majority of the workforce work for the government,and the high unemployment,hard fence to try and jump

a reply to: FauxMulder

it wouldn't be an equal share though, it would be a minimal share.. enough to keep them living and BUYING another day.. since all the automation in the world would be useless without alot people living and buying.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: FauxMulder

it wouldn't be an equal share though, it would be a minimal share.. enough to keep them living and BUYING another day.. since all the automation in the world would be useless without alot people living and buying.

And this right here is why no one should want it.

It's the collar for the dog.

Sure you can live, but at what cost? You give up all your freedom and only live at the pleasure of those who hand out to you.

originally posted by: lordcomac
It is welfare.

How many times do we have to cover basic monetary function?
If you raise the income of everyone by $x a month, within a year the basic cost of living for everyone will go up by $x a month.

"Universal" income is just another way to spike up minimum wage, which gives anyone making more than minimum wage an effective pay cut- so employers get to make more money.

Does.
Not.
Work.

There is absolutely no reason for UBI to be inherently inflationary.

A UBI replaces and simplifies current welfare payments, that is all. It is entirely possible to make it revenue neutral.

a reply to: EternalShadow

It's nothing to do with Socalism/communism.

a reply to: FauxMulder

UBI doesn't mean everyone gets a equal share.

originally posted by: VengefulGhost
Better idea let them get jobs and earn a living like everyone else instead of sitting on their lazy asses bleeding those of us who actually work dry .

One of the main benefits of a UBI is that it encourages people to work, as it removes the benefits trap of being unable to find a sufficiently well paid or enough hours to make more than they get on benefits.

This will come eventually, as the alternatives are just as bad. Does anybody want our skies so smoked up we can't breathe, or see the sky and stars like China? I don't.

With jobs disappearing because of automation and robots it will eventually come to this. Maybe not in our lifetimes, or at least not to every citizen, but it will come. When it does, it will be the right thing to do, and it will be alright.

The only way this will work is if price control is instituted.

If a gallon of gas costs $2.75/gallon, there will have to be a law that states something along the lines of "may not exceed $3.00/gallon" otherwise there is nothing to stop businesses from raising prices to accommodate the new UBI. The logic being, well, people can now afford $5.00/gallon thanks to the UBI plus their paychecks from working.

The unfortunate thing is that I believe most people will waste the money, and not work to provide sustainable lifestyles for themselves, that's human nature at our present time.

Me, I would work to create an energy independent homestead where I could produce my own food, using solar and biogas to provide for basic energy needs. Following the initial investment the UBI would be used for ancillary costs such as livestock supplies, seed, and perhaps foodstuffs that I'm unable to produce on my own (dairy products or meat I'm not raising for example).

It needs to reach the current poverty line, not be a fraction of what it was in the 90's, when you get a 700 dollar old house instead of an 1800 dollar one, or 2200 dollar one, when apartments were 300-400, not 800-1200.

This brings the other part forward, Affordable, decent and large, well insulated and sound proofed, single, elderly AND LARGE families even, housing! Essential and the rights of all people. All the land and resources of the planet belong to all creatures great and small and any stealing of them by a powerful group is absolutely criminal and slavery.

a reply to: synthetichuman

Bernie Sanders didn't buy a lake house with leftover campaign money. For one, that would be illegal. There's only a few things that could be done with the remaining campaign funds:

- retained for a future campaign
- donated to the party or in small increments to other candidates' campaigns
- donated to charity

I think that's about it. From what I read, Bernie's wife had inherited a lake house that had been in her family for generations, that house was sold and the proceeds from the sale were put toward the new home.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: FauxMulder

it wouldn't be an equal share though, it would be a minimal share.. enough to keep them living and BUYING another day.. since all the automation in the world would be useless without alot people living and buying.

And this right here is why no one should want it.

It's the collar for the dog.

Sure you can live, but at what cost? You give up all your freedom and only live at the pleasure of those who hand out to you.

How is that any different from working. You gain your living at the whims of your employer and then claim to be independent.

originally posted by: watchitburn


We'll definitely have to come up with something once all the jobs become automated but I don't think a universal income will be it. I think it should be some kind of post-currency barter system.

Perhaps the spare time accrued by able bodied people (income now provided)

could go into the care of the neglected elderly and infirm, who the councils

claim they neither have the money or workforce to do so

a reply to: ScepticScot

if an employee is getting income from the gov't to pay for his basic needs, wouldn't this give the employers some freedom to reduce their labor expense though. isn't that what we are doing now through our welfare programs?
I know that no mother with young children would be working at the nearby fast food joint if they had to pay for the childcare themselves! they'd have to get a higher wage.

and we are getting close to the point where automation will be able to take overs many of the jobs that people (and not all minimum wages workers) do now. so, what are we going to do when the machines take over say, 60% of the jobs? let those we no longer need in the workforce die off? have a war to reduce the population? the problem with that is that if you reduce it too much, you aren't gonna be needing that many machines making good or providing services. less need for the corporations.. less people with the ability to buy a car, less cars sold, suddenly the factory only needs to stay open three months a years, so less people working...
what we need is to change our view, have a revelation, come up with a totally new economic system.

if we value the virtue of hard work so much that we'd let a mass of people go without the necessities of life, then maybe we should reserve the automation for just those jobs that pose a high risk to humans?

lol... in the futuristic life of george jetson, his job consisted of him pushing a button, or maybe a series of buttons for one hour week... and he somehow managed to live quite well.. wonder if the had blimps floating around holding a warehouse full of goods with drones providing same day delivery though like amazon if planning.

a reply to: dawnstar

Personally I don't think we are the point of needing UBI as a result of automation yet nor will be for sometime.

That point doesn't come when automation replaces what people curently do, it comes when it replaces what people could do.

By that I mean automation frees up people to do other jobs as it always had throughout history. Until we get to the stage when machines can do virtually any job then there will always be jobs. The question is how we make that the economic system works to improve people's standard of living not diminish it.

I do think that as technology progresses we will be able to strike a better balance in work demands and one of these shoukd be lower average working hours.

a reply to: asen_y2k

It only works if the cost of living stays at the same level forever, otherwise people are no better off, we've seen it recently here in England where the minimum wage went up, only for transport costs, fuel costs, internet costs, phone line rental and probably other stuff to go up in cost.

Probably worse off now than before the increase in nmw.

Jealousy, greed and power...
Three keywords...

If your for this system your a lazy a$$ and if you are against
it you are one of the three above...

My d*** is bigger than yours...
My company makes more many than yours....
I command an army of idiots....

Me me me me me....

We had a docu in sweden about this too...
Didnt really watch it since the morons in it
had no idea what they were talking about...

"We have jobs and work because we "want" to
better our selfs and reach a higher understanding"
BOLLOCKS

Machines are slowly starting to take or jobs.

Right now, universal income or welfare doesn't look that good to many. But eventually it will work because everything will be automated.

My idea is that people should be given a basic unemployed life. You get a small income, a small house with limited water and electricity.
If you want unlimited water and electricity, then that is where you need to get a job and start paying water and electricity bills.
Want a better or bigger house or better lifestyle? Then that is where you get a job and have better income.

We need to think of somethin right now. Be it universal income or something else that prevents machines making us unemployed and unable to afford a life.

We need to come to a compromise (or at least think of one) now before this becomes a problem in the near future.

originally posted by: Miccey


"We have jobs and work because we "want" to
better our selfs and reach a higher understanding"
BOLLOCKS

A job well done gives one a certain degree of satisfaction and fulfillment.

originally posted by: Kuroodo

My idea is that people should be given a basic unemployed life. You get a small income, a small house with limited water and electricity.
If you want unlimited water and electricity, then that is where you need to get a job and start paying water and electricity bills.
Want a better or bigger house or better lifestyle? Then that is where you get a job and have better income.

*Status Quo* ..... Isn't that where we are at now?