Eyes Wide Shut, Scientology, & Vivian Kubrick - The Conspiracy

a reply to: firesnakeprophecy

My theory why we see 3 small actors in the costume shop is because they symbolize aliens or little green men and the shop itself is Roswell with high security at the entrance but also floor to ceiling glass observation or "containment unit" farther inside.

Come on, man. Really?

Why would he go out of his way to use one scene of the film to make a statement completely irrelevant and ambiguous to what is going on visually in that scene or anywhere else in the film?

That's such an odd thing for me to imagine. I can't think of how you ended up there. At least the Scientology angle has some weight to it given what was taking place in Kubrick's personal life at the time he was filming EWS.

Not everything is a direct or even indirect reference to something else. Those aspects of a film where a directer mimics, emulates, or pays homage to another film or idea or concept are usually something spontaneous that occurs while on set or in the editing room. Most people just can't think multi-dimenionsionally in the present like that, all the time, without the aid of repeated mindful meditation or the use of psychedelic stimulants.

From hearing Kubrick speak in interviews and seeing the way he moves his mouth, I am under the impression that Kubrick did not practice meditation. I believe he was very singular minded from moment to moment, and that mentally he worked very hard to process as much useful information possible about only a one or two things at a time. He was probably self aware enough to be conscious of this, and to compensate for not being intuitively imaginative like a painter (like David Lynch is a painter or even his wife whom he adored) he was reading as much as he could to expand his spectrum of knowledge that would give him the ability to be creative.

He obviously watched a lot of films, also. Once in an interview he said Bergman, Fellini, & De Sica were the best film makers alive, or something. They're all dead now, and so is Kubrick. He believed that silent expressionism, when paired with the correct soundtrack, was the most effective and engaging form of film making. This approach contributed largely to the cult success of 2001.

Once in an interview he said that silent films really captured the essence of film making, and that talkies by nature lost some of their magic ability as a result. Think about that for a second then watch the orgy scene in Eyes Wide Shut, or think 2001 where the Blue Danube is used to convey scenes that are expositional. Those were the only two Kubrick films where the sound was mixed in Stereo, as he preferred Mono.

I try to be pretty consistent and not veer off in imagination land with interpretations. It's fun to be speculative and to want to put more into the film than what you've taken in. Going down the rabbit hole and reading about conspiracy theory tends to be a very intense experience for most people. It's one that enhances your awareness and gets those brain juices flowing, thus creating the natural tendency to free associate constructs and ideas. It becomes a form of higher evolution.

So conspiracy is basically being used like a drug for most people, then you have ATS. But not everything is more than one thing. Some things are meant to be taken at face value, then in the grand scheme of things usually have one more sublayer of symbolic meaning. Then, some things are meant to be mysterious and unexplained, because those experiences are uniquely powerful and defining in one's life.

I don't know how else to say it, but midgets and aliens really isn't working for me. Aside from L Ron Hubbard and the Xenu angle, (which is really Crowley and the LAM angle) I can't think of how EWS would have anything to do with little green men and UFOs. But I tried.

"Why would he go out of his way to use one scene of the film to make a statement completely irrelevant and ambiguous to what is going on visually in that scene or anywhere else in the film?"

Do you not feel there's a reference to 2001 with the old man in the bed? If there is, then anything to do with space is open for discussion in my opinion. Because then it's more than one scene like you said.

I would also be curious to hear your thoughts on why you feel Kubrick dressed Danny in the Apollo 11 sweater in The Shining?

BTW, I'm not claiming to understand Kubrick any better than the next guy or even at all. I'm just sharing things I find interesting, like people tell stories about ghosts, aliens or high strangeness in general.

There's no doubt Kubrick was a genius as he invariably appears near the top of everyone's best director of all time lists. I think problems start when people project their own mental processes onto what someone else is doing. Like you have stories of people meeting aliens and they aliens ask them, "What time is it?" Those beings are mentally light years ahead of any human, yet the human proceeds to answer the aliens question. Like he's going to tell that alien something he doesn't already know.

But like you said - the real answer isn't the dialogue of "2:30 or 3 O'Clock" - it's the symbolic actions that person takes after the meeting. Does he really try to understand the message that was being sent and if so what does he do with it? (i.e. use it to the raise the level of awareness of all consciousness?

a reply to: firesnakeprophecy

Do you not feel there's a reference to 2001 with the old man in the bed? If there is, then anything to do with space is open for discussion in my opinion. Because then it's more than one scene like you said.

The old dead man in the bed? It's in the book by Schnitzler. Have you read it? If you haven't, you'll never understand Eyes Wide Shut.

No doubt Kubrick used this opportunity to echo the final scene in 2001 with image of the old man dying in bed. I mention that at the end of my OP in the bonus section (and I used pictures there!) He echoes virtually every major movie in his canon at least once.

Kubrick also referred to EWS as:

"Eyes Wide Shut is my greatest contribution to the art of film".

A life's long work - finally actualized.

I would also be curious to hear your thoughts on why you feel Kubrick dressed Danny in the Apollo 11 sweater in The Shining?

That's simple, it wasn't Kubrick. It was the woman who worked as the wardrobe director.

Despite being credited as Kubrick's intention, there is no evidence to suggest, and no one involved in production of The Shining that has said anything to the contrary, that what's her face picked the sweater and Kubrick liked it because it was blue, and Kubrick has a really well placed emphasis on primary colours in his films.

It's possible that when he saw the opportunity to crudely echo 2001 in The Shining he took advantage of the Apollo shirt when considering Danny's wardrobe for that scene. But every recollection is that it wasn't first proposed by Stanley, that he only did that after the screenplay and on the set where a woman he had hired to supply varieties of costume in the right sizes and range of colours.

There's no doubt Kubrick was a genius as he invariably appears near the top of everyone's best director of all time lists.

I like to think that in western cinema, Kubrick was the best filmmaker post 1960 up until he died and no one, not Spielberg, Lucas, Nolan, Cameron, Ridley, or Fincher can even compare to the amount of innovation that Kubrick contributed to the art of film. The only two living filmmakers in the west that could even come close before they die are David Lynch & Darren Aronofsky. And maybe Tim Burton, but he's kind of in the same category as the others on the sh*t list for succumbing to the mediocrity of computer graphic imaging as an inevitable direction in modern film making.

2001: A Space Odyssey cosmically reinvented the art film.

And globally/historically, Kubrick goes down as one of the greatest there ever was. Not quite as commemorated as Hitchcock, or Welles, but unique and consistent enough to have his own trademark qualities that make him no less than they.

Excellent stuff CW,
Now I have been cogitating on various aspects of the, shall we say "hidden world" for the last few weeks so I came back to visit your thread.
Recently I have been looking into connections with HP Lovecraft and his various influences. The concepts of occult societies and the hidden clues that artists include in their works to reveal these societies.

One of Lovecraft's influences was Robert Chambers. His work "The King in Yellow" is a collection of short stories first published in 1895. The stories are linked by a few themes that parallel some of the themes here. In the stories there is a mention of a fictitious play called "the King in Yellow" or mention of characters from the play, or characters in the story read the play. The play is in two acts, the first act is innocent, banal and normal. The second act is so shocking that it drives the reader or viewer mad with its revelation. You could say that it opens their eyes to something beyond their normal understanding. In the few exerts from the play that Chambers creates for the stories it is clear that the play involves a masquerade. Two female characters are speaking with a male costumed character who is the mysterious King in Yellow. At the end of the ball when all guests are asked to remove their masks he tells one of the females "I wear no mask".

I find the similar settings of these masked parties (for that matter think of Poe's "Mask of the Red Death") which seem to continue to reiterate the separation of the elite and the common person to be more than coincidence. It makes me wonder how much that "The King in Yellow" may have influenced the original source for EWS?
Connect this with Lovecraft and his recurring theme of secret societies practicing occult worship and his own connection to Crowley and I cant help but think there is a common knowledge or guiding thread.

One could say that on the surface these stories tell the tales of people who became involved in something that seem ordinary, only it became very much unordinary. Upon revelation of the hidden layers they risk madness and destruction. Very much as it is said that reading TKIY would drive the reader mad. It was mentioned that the viewers of EWS were angry and put off by viewing the film. Like they were being shown something they were conditioned to not see.


"Cassilda's Song" comes from Act 1, Scene 2 of the play:
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.
Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.
Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.

originally posted by: Dragoon01
Connect this with Lovecraft and his recurring theme of secret societies practicing occult worship and his own connection to Crowley and I cant help but think there is a common knowledge or guiding thread.

I'm not exactly following, who are you connecting to Crowley?

a reply to: ColdWisdom


Why did Kubrick title this EYES WIDE SHUT?

A pure conspiratorial appellation if you ask me.

Of course the very pedestrian idea of we have our eyes shut to our partners shenanigans, does not impress me at all.

As for the Japanese not being twins, well the Twin towers are not exactly twins either!

a reply to: Dragoon01

Crowley would have been very young in 1895 compared to Lovecraft. So I doubt that Lovecraft even knew about Crowley until later. Crowley was certainly into Lovecraft.

And I think it's safe to say that Schnitzler could have been influenced by Lovecraft and I'm sure he was influenced by Poe.

I've owned Poe's complete works on hardback since I was a teenager. I used to LOVE me some Poe, now I'm all about non-fiction & apocrypha.

a reply to: Willtell

Why did Kubrick title this EYES WIDE SHUT?

Because it's an awesome name that fits perfectly the theme of the adapted novella, at the same time it's a perfect allusion for conspiracy and secrecy.

Speaking strictly about the creativity of film titles, Eyes Wide Shut is probably one of the all time greatest names for a film IMO.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: Willtell

Why did Kubrick title this EYES WIDE SHUT?

Because it's an awesome name that fits perfectly the theme of the adapted novella, at the same time it's a perfect allusion for conspiracy and secrecy.

Speaking strictly about the creativity of film titles, Eyes Wide Shut is probably one of the all time greatest names for a film IMO.

I agree.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Dragoon01
Connect this with Lovecraft and his recurring theme of secret societies practicing occult worship and his own connection to Crowley and I cant help but think there is a common knowledge or guiding thread.

I'm not exactly following, who are you connecting to Crowley?

Don't want to speak for him, but I think he may be talking about the "left hand path" in general for which Crowley is the most famous ambassador. That all these secret occult groups are connected through the black/dark/satanic/left hand path - Hubbard and Scientology, Crowley and Thelema, whoever Kubrick's is talking about in Eyes Wide Shut, etc.

And I think one of the problems and reasons for Kubrick chosing the title Eyes Wide Shut, is to discuss why people have a hard time seeing what's going on (not just to point out it's happening). This sequence in Breaking Bad may be one of the most important in the whole series and may help explain to people who haven't studied advanced chemistry or organic chemistry.

Basically, what Walt's saying, or what the "science" is saying, things may look the same on appearance, but their behavior is not. This being one of the major reasons people have their "Eyes Wide Shut" as Kubrick titles it. They look around and see people who look or appear the same as them - two arms, two eyes, two legs, etc - but they fail to realize these people's minds work completely different than you or I.

I mean completely different.

This is why as CW mentioned - you can't trust the dialogue or what anyone says - you have to look at their actions - the symbolism of what they do.

If a politician says they want "freedom" or "peace" - most people are easily fooled because they believe that person's mind works like theirs. And then get frustrated when the actions or symbolic gestures of their "leaders" restrict freedom and go to war for "peace". Or bankers who say, "Oh, I'm good for the money just put it on my credit and we'll fix the economic meltdown". Don't believe the words. Let's see the fix, then you get your bailout.

(That was Season 1 Episode 2 - Cat's in the Bag for anyone wondering)

originally posted by: firesnakeprophecy
Don't want to speak for him, but I think he may be talking about the "left hand path" in general for which Crowley is the most famous ambassador.

I'm aware of Crowley and his leanings, I wanted to know whether he was connecting Lovecraft or Kubrick to Crowley, the way it was written doesn't make it clear to me.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: firesnakeprophecy
Don't want to speak for him, but I think he may be talking about the "left hand path" in general for which Crowley is the most famous ambassador.

I'm aware of Crowley and his leanings, I wanted to know whether he was connecting Lovecraft or Kubrick to Crowley, the way it was written doesn't make it clear to me.

Lovecraft to Crowley.
Their is no doubt that Lovecraft was aware of him and his work.

ColdWisdom, Lovecraft was writing in the late 20's and thirties. The date of 1895 was in reference to Robert Chambers and his publication of "The King in Yellow". Lovecraft used the King in Yellow as elements in several of his stories and was a fan of Chambers. He was also a fan of Ambrose Bierce, as was Chambers. In fact that's where the name "Carcosa" comes from. Bierce's story "An Inhabitant of Carcosa". These writers with common themes often borrowed elements from one another.

a reply to: firesnakeprophecy

The name Eyes wide shut is in reference to a common theme of secret societies.
Initiates in the old mystery schools would have their "eyes opened".
There are many references to "those with eyes to see"

It is demonstrating the concept that the secret can be hidden in plain sight. Written about in plain text and only people who understand the symbolism will understand what is really being shown.

Its not exactly about peoples behavior, although that is part of it, its about the fact that these people are walking among us but they do not live among us. They exist in a separate world that we are blind to.

I have a conspiracy theory regarding EWS and K, but I don’t seriously defend it and won’t.


I think some conspiracy theories are just that, theories, and should not be defended too much--- since there just possibilities.

In this case, I rely on the title to suggest it is the basis of K’s indulgence here in conspiracy, since the EWS title is so enticing.


I think Kubrick had to be a part of some secret society IF he was doing secret messaging in EWS.


That’s why it’s important to investigate his history, get a good biography of him, I would suggest to any one espousing a deep message in EWS.


A person can’t easily hide there associations with occult thinking and groups


That’s the Achilles heel in the Kubrick conspiracy theorists gang, the fact that K can’t be associated with any occult groups or out-of-the-box thinking

originally posted by: Dragoon01
Lovecraft to Crowley.
Their is no doubt that Lovecraft was aware of him and his work.

I doubt it, I don't see the influence. You will need to provide some evidence or other points of comparison.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am not going to hijack this thread for that.

I will say that HPL was a professed materialist and I am not suggesting that he followed or believed in what AC promoted. What I am suggesting (and I am by no means alone in this as a simply google search will reveal) that Lovecraft was aware of Crowley and at least understood the roots of his works. There is no doubt he was influenced by Arthur Machen, who was a member of the Golden Dawn, it cant be a stretch to include AC as well. The amount of esoteric knowledge imbedded into HPL's works indicates that he had exposure to the information, and it of no small significance that HPL's wife knew Crowley before she met Lovecraft.

Now more in connection with this thread since I believe that the occult society that is exposed in EWS is in fact real and in fact a practitioner of ritual "magic", I would suggest that the heart of the Lovecraft mythos is identical to the desired chaos that this society wishes to produce. Compare the Crowley to the Lovecraft.

AC
"Do what thou whilst, shall be the whole of the law"

HPL
" The time would be easy to know, for then

mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and

wild, and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown

aside and all men shouting and killing and reveling in joy."

a reply to: Willtell

Why did Kubrick title this EYES WIDE SHUT?

Honestly, I always thought of it as a catchy oxymoron.

(I've got it in my Netflix queue now btw)

originally posted by: Willtell
I have a conspiracy theory regarding EWS and K, but I don’t seriously defend it and won’t.


I think some conspiracy theories are just that, theories, and should not be defended too much--- since there just possibilities.

In this case, I rely on the title to suggest it is the basis of K’s indulgence here in conspiracy, since the EWS title is so enticing.


I think Kubrick had to be a part of some secret society IF he was doing secret messaging in EWS.


That’s why it’s important to investigate his history, get a good biography of him, I would suggest to any one espousing a deep message in EWS.


A person can’t easily hide there associations with occult thinking and groups


That’s the Achilles heel in the Kubrick conspiracy theorists gang, the fact that K can’t be associated with any occult groups or out-of-the-box thinking

I think you are discounting the possibility that Kubrick was Dr. Harford in the movie. In other words like many artists he was creating from the vantage point of himself within the medium. He was putting into film a version of something he experienced in his life. That's not suggesting that he had a brush with infidelity or even a cult with the specific aspects of the one in the film, its to say that he was himself blind to what was taking place within specific circles. That it was only when he was briefly exposed to some aspect of it that he had his eyes open and began to see many manifestations of the hidden world. This hidden society that normal everyday people do not know exists.
This is why this resonates so clearly on so many levels.

It is revealed truth. Truth so profound that it cannot be unlearned. Once you know it, it completely changes your mindset and your worldview. Kubrick does not have to be PART of a society, he does not have to be included in the inner workings in order to be exposed to it. He was a force in Hollywood. There cant be any doubt that if a secret society exists within Hollywood that Kubrick could have easily been exposed to it. Its possible that he rejected it. Its possible that he heard rumors and stories but that he then saw something that confirmed that the stories were at least in part true. That's all that he needed in order to set him in a direction of teaching himself the symbolism of the occult and beginning to see it all around him.

originally posted by: Dragoon01
I am not going to hijack this thread for that.

Make a thread, I would be more than happy to participate as I disagree and agree with some of your posts.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That's a possibility. I cant say I am ready to put down everything I have been turning around in my head on it at this point, and a connection between AC and HPL is not a central aspect of what I am ruminating on at any rate. More of the themes that are present in many of the writers of that time frame. It kind of parallels the work of Walter Bosley in his Empire of the Wheel trilogy. If you are aware of that work then you will note that he mentions the HPL and AC connection there.

As a side note I do not hold with the views of many of those who assume that there is some hidden FUNCTIONAL esoteric system within the Lovecraft mythos. I simply see him as a very good writer that may be including a hidden layer of truth to his works. Again like Kubrick in EWS, I am not suggesting that HPL was possessing hidden knowledge of the SPECIFICS just that he may have been aware of the existence of this hidden society, and masking it within a lot of literary camouflage used that as material for his works.