Life or death in 250 milliseconds

Between 2006 and 2016, the Navy and Marines lost 40 F-18s, and 15 crew members. Of those, 14 were CFIT or midair collisions. Those 14 resulted in 73% of the fatalities, and 50% of the financial cost. In 2015-2016,five aircraft and three pilots were lost due to CFIT or midair.

The Air Force has recently installed automatic ground collision avoidance systems, and has an air to air version in testing. In the short time the system has been active, at least four pilots and aircraft have been saved.

The USNI makes a compelling case for installing the system on Navy and Marine aircraft as well. The savings in aircraft lost alone make the system worthwhile.

m.usni.org...

It's been a problem since WW1 when aircraft started flying formations. The common cause is one pilot breaks the wrong direction or breaks the right direction and fails to maintain vertical clearances. The avoidance systems are worth the money and should be retrofitted to any aircraft that will do any large amount of formation flying. It may not help with demonstration flying teams because of their closeness and timing but it's worth it in the long run for anybody it might save.

I read somewhere that in the F-35, that's not going to happen with the new improved avionics. Of course, I'm not in the loop so I can't verify that...

In all of my years as a USAF wrench jockey, I could never understand GCAS systems.

"Why did you crash, sir?"

"My GCAS failed... and I flew into the ground...""

"Did it occur to you to not do that?"

"No... my GCAS failed."

Rule 1 of flight school should be "do not fly into the ground", and candidates should have to write that on a chalkboard a few hundred times...

a reply to: madmac5150

Not all of the GCAS saves have been a result of ground proximity. The first pilot saved was a student who blacked out doing basic BFM and wound up with the nose pointing at the ground, approaching mach 1.

It's not a matter of just flying into the ground though. During a strafing run, it's very easy to get fixated on the target, and lose track of your altitude. That's why they have a HUD, but you can get so fixated on what's going on outside the aircraft you lose focus on the instruments and readouts. It can happen to new pilots, it can happen to pilots with thousands of hours of combat time.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That hud feed really is incredible though, that and his training lead calling for him to recover really gave me the chills the first time I saw it. Definitely worth it imo

a reply to: Bfirez

There was one years ago that made television where the pilot woke up and ejected just before impact and wound up pretty badly banged up. Seeing this save that student was a great video. It's definitelyworth installing immediately.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: madmac5150

Not all of the GCAS saves have been a result of ground proximity. The first pilot saved was a student who blacked out doing basic BFM and wound up with the nose pointing at the ground, approaching mach 1.

It's not a matter of just flying into the ground though. During a strafing run, it's very easy to get fixated on the target, and lose track of your altitude. That's why they have a HUD, but you can get so fixated on what's going on outside the aircraft you lose focus on the instruments and readouts. It can happen to new pilots, it can happen to pilots with thousands of hours of combat time.

Trust me, I understand. Spacial disorientation has killed many a pilot. I meant in no way to demean the jobs our engineers have done on systems like GCAS, Radar altimiters, etc. in the name of aircrew safety.

...but how many fighter jocks can you hear trying to make that argument in an accident investigation?

I can't believe they won't put this in every new jet we make. Especially the single seaters. Having a buddy in the back seat is the only reason I'm alive today. Can't say how many times that guy must've saved my life.

Target fixation is both a blessing and a curse for the pilot. They are so focused on achieving the mission, destroying the target/sending bad guys to hell, that they lose sight of the environment around them. We were trained that on a bomb/strafe run, if there are lives at stake (we would use the term "Marines on the ground") then we were on "government time." Meaning, the SAM or AAA that was coming at you was actually less important than destroying your target, since 1 pilot & 1 RIO and 1 aircraft may be less important, at that instant, then the dozens of troops on the ground.

This is ingrained into our heads during A/G training. So much that the symbology in the HUD could be ignored. And I mean big giant X's flashing at you. Bitching Betty screaming "Pull Up" You just push all that away and try to destroy the target. It's a little easier when the target is getting bigger and bigger too.

So yeah, I get the fixation issue with pilots. They never want to fail the mission, so they focus on that target at all costs. Sometimes at the cost of their own lives.

Since a carrier landing is considered a controlled crash, I have to wonder how this system would act during a landing?

a reply to: JIMC5499

It deactivates with gear down. It would be the same with aircraft landing on a land base.

Here is the video Zaphod and I were discussing if anyone is interested.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Not to mention, I imagine its a lot like driving a car, you get so use to what your doing and everything becomes second nature to the point at moments your body is going through the motions while youre somewhere else...

And going THAT fast moving in more than two dimensions of space, that can be catastrophic

Like making a minor error when youre diving 150 feet down, which ive had happen on a very unfortunate occasion!

Maybe a bad example but you catch my drift